Due to social movement, #VA236 launch will not occur this Thursday. New launch date ASAP. #Ariane5 & payloads are in safe, standby condition
Ariane 5 March 23, 2017Arianespace VA236: launch reschedulingAs the social movements does not allow the resumption of operations for the Ariane 5 launch scheduled for today, Thursday, March 23, Arianespace has decided to postpone the launch.A new launch date will be announced as soon as possible.The launch vehicle, with its SGDC and KOREASAT-7 satellite payloads, remain in a stand-by mode and are being maintained in fully safe conditions.Arianespace Flight VA236 – which is scheduled to launch SGDC for Telebras S.A., performed within the framework of a contract with SGDC prime contractor VISIONA Tecnologia Espacial S.A.; and KOREASAT-7 for ktsat.
DutchSpace @DutchSpace 3m3 minutes agoUpdate on #Kourou : Local people are telling me no roll-out before Monday,would mean earliest possible launch on the 28th #VA236
The labor unrest in French Guiana, Europe's spaceport, is not improving. A general strike has been called for, starting Monday.
@AuerSusan @pbdes its a continuation of the strike, also, negation team on the ground, but word is strikers refuse to negotiate with them
Quote from: pippin on 03/21/2017 09:21 pmAh. A strike. Now Kourou really feels like FranceBecause France has colonized French Guiana since 1503. They wanted to make that country like France since it's their territory.
Ah. A strike. Now Kourou really feels like France
A new tidbit I hadn't heard before is the satellites' teams are stuck in Kourou, since the airport is closed, and protesters' roadblocks were only lifted on Sunday to allow people to replenish their food stocks, and were up again at 4 am today, as scheduled.
Europe's spaceport & much of rest of Fr Guiana remains closed after breakdown of negs between local pop & govt. Two weeks & counting...
Europe's spaceport2/ Arianespace had forecast no launches in May, so bottleneck from 3-wk shutdown from strikes could be absorbed by June.
Quote from: eeergo on 03/27/2017 03:22 pmA new tidbit I hadn't heard before is the satellites' teams are stuck in Kourou, since the airport is closed, and protesters' roadblocks were only lifted on Sunday to allow people to replenish their food stocks, and were up again at 4 am today, as scheduled.As this will be the Lampoldshausen launcher, named for the 2016 presidency of the Community of Ariane Cities, the Mayor of Lampoldshausen and the director and vice director of DLR's Institute of Space Propulsion were in Kourou last week to watch the launch.They were evacuated from the Guiana Space Center by helicopter to Kourou Airport and by a Transall military airplane to Cayenne Airport to get one of the last flights out of French Guiana back to Europe.Photo by Hans Zeller, Arianespace:
Peter B de Selding has sent a whole series of tweets (starting here) on current political situation in French Guiana. Obviously this isn't a political forum, but the key point is that the protestors are clearly trying to use the shutting down of the space centre as leverage. I could see this dragging on for quite some time so might not be any more launches for quite a while.
"“The French government is working very hard to find a solution, and I am very, very confident that we will resume with the launches in the coming days,” CNES President Jean-Yves Le Gall said during an April 4 presentation at the 33rd Space Symposium ..." http://spacenews.com/legall-confident-french-guiana-launches-will-resume-in-the-coming-days/ - Ed Kyle
Peter B. de Selding @pbdes 3m3 minutes agoEuro spaceport shutdown: 3 Fr ministers announce measures for Fr Guiana after ministerial council. Will strikers see them as sufficient?
Peter B. de Selding @pbdes 2m2 minutes agoEuro spaceport: ~30 sit-in demonstrators spent night at space ctr conf center awaiting Fr govt response to demands. They're still there.
Overnight sit-in at Europe spaceport office ends; demonstrators reject Fr govt response; still want CNES to plead their case to govt.
I've read elsewhere that partly discontent is due to locals feeling that the French treat them as second class citizens?
Quote from: Star One on 04/05/2017 02:50 pmI've read elsewhere that partly discontent is due to locals feeling that the French treat them as second class citizens?It's a bit more complex than that (oversea french territories have a complicated status), but the general idea seems about right. In particular, crime rates have reached frightening levels and locals don't feel their safety is assured. But demands include also concerns about health, education and more. All pretty backed up by the statistics. Of course these figures are not new, but there was supposed to be a plan to invest in the government infrastructures here to enable these discrepancies to fade away, and the locals feel that the issue is being neglected by governments. With the presidential elections coming shortly, they both want actions from a government that has not upheld its promises during the last term, and probably also strong signs from the candidates that they actually care about Guyana.
The issue is that the spaceport needs high-skilled employees of which very little come from French Guyana itself.
Indirect jobs - probably a lot (teachers, nannies, the like). High-skill jobs - probably not much. Most come from the Metropole and Europe.
Europe's spaceport: Roadblocks still up, Ariane/Euro Soyuz (& much of Fr Guiana economy) still down. No off-ramp from crisis imminent.
Quote from: Archibald on 04/05/2017 03:47 pmIndirect jobs - probably a lot (teachers, nannies, the like). High-skill jobs - probably not much. Most come from the Metropole and Europe.Has their been consideration of schemes to provide facilities to educate and train locals into the more skilled rolls?
The last days brought a few articles in the press. From those articles, an unchecked.French Guyana is part of France, part of the EU and NATO. It not part of the Schengen zone. Being an EU border makes local imports more difficult and expensive as it would be otherwise. EU citizens can move to and work in French Guyana without restrictions. The reverse is of course also true. Doing this in reality is much harder because of things like:Graduate school?40% of the pupils don't graduate school. At all.15% of the population has access to potable water. The official unemployment number is ~22%, and has been that high for decades. (France ~10%)For those under 25 years the official unemployment number is 46.5%. (France ~24%)Half the GDP of France, 45% higher food prices.Arianespace is the biggest part of the economy. Tourism is next and growing. Forestry, tropical hardwoods, is also big. There is some agriculture at the coast for local consumption and crab fishing mostly for export. Gold mining closes the list.Illegal gold mining is a major and long lasting cross border issue. Crime and serve pollution of the environment.250k people in French Guyana. It is not the poorest oversea department but has the highest murder rate in France, averaging to once a week.26k live in Kourou. Neighborhoods with Arianespace employees are easy to find at night, they are the ones with streetlights.The main demands are: Higher wages, more workplaces, money for social infrastructure [schools, clinics], more support for the farmers, better protection of small local businesses. Additional demands include: more police, deporting illegal immigrants.One of the overarching complaints is that the government did not act on its past promises. This is not the first conflict, just the most visible and longest. The upcoming presidential election adds visibility, the fear that the protests spread into other poor departments adds urgency for the politicians.The clinic and medical situation is one of the old promises, the demand is for something more local than a ticket on the next plane to France for even slightly complicated issues.One observation: When the guys with the balaclavas who are enforcing the strike are the ones demanding more police there is something odd here.Again, sourced via this weeks news and magazine articles and not fact checked. (Turns out that is hard if you don't speak French.)
Illegal gold mining is a major and long lasting cross border issue.
for the reporting, its slightly one sided and with incorrect facts, maybe open a discussion thread somewhere, and use this for actual updates.
How long would this have to go on to impact on the JWST launch, or will whatever other payloads are in front of it have to be juggled round to insure it still launches on time?
Quote from: Star One on 04/07/2017 08:28 amHow long would this have to go on to impact on the JWST launch, or will whatever other payloads are in front of it have to be juggled round to insure it still launches on time?I was going to say "JWST is still years away from launch" then reminded 2018 is next year (!). Then again, JWST isn't a space probe, it has no launch window.
A pretty honest assessment of the situation IMHO. These numbers are rather depressing.
Peter B. de Selding @pbdes 5m5 minutes agoEurope's spaceport: 3 wks into general strike, roadblocks still up. No improvement in view; Fr presidential elections April 23/May 7.
Peter B. de Selding @pbdes 2m2 minutes agoEurope's spaceport: Fr president Hollande calls for roadblock's end; no effect. Some say he shld travel to Fr Guiana, make symbolic gesture.
I sincerely hope France can settle its problems with French Guyana and I would never belittle the issues the people have there........but, ultimately, this is one example of why depending on international partners can be a liability. Suppose, in a worst case scenario (but highly unlikely), F. Guyana fully revolts and in the process destroys the spaceport. ESA could still manufacture spacecraft, but lack a launch site if not the means to launch said spacecraft. ESA would find itself momentarily at the mercy of either Russia or America. This could potentially be a burden to (as an example) America if a project akin to ISS (Deep Space Gateway anyone?) required a few sizable components to launch out of their spaceport (also there's the Webb's situation if you think about it).
Quote from: redliox on 04/11/2017 08:38 pmI sincerely hope France can settle its problems with French Guyana and I would never belittle the issues the people have there........but, ultimately, this is one example of why depending on international partners can be a liability. Suppose, in a worst case scenario (but highly unlikely), F. Guyana fully revolts and in the process destroys the spaceport. ESA could still manufacture spacecraft, but lack a launch site if not the means to launch said spacecraft. ESA would find itself momentarily at the mercy of either Russia or America. This could potentially be a burden to (as an example) America if a project akin to ISS (Deep Space Gateway anyone?) required a few sizable components to launch out of their spaceport (also there's the Webb's situation if you think about it).You talk of not belittling the issues of the people there, and then appear to do the reverse in your second paragraph by making insensitive remarks by talking as if the local people might turn into some savage mob bent on destruction.
....but, ultimately, this is one example of why depending on international partners can be a liability.
@Arianespace letter to Fr Guiana politicians asking that 3+ wks of roadblocks be ended was badly received. Traffic open only till Monday.
Europe's spaceport: Given Guiana strike, Arianespace return to ops before early May looks unlikely, & even that is optimistic at this stage.
Quote@Arianespace letter to Fr Guiana politicians asking that 3+ wks of roadblocks be ended was badly received. Traffic open only till Monday.https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/852841297551532032QuoteEurope's spaceport: Given Guiana strike, Arianespace return to ops before early May looks unlikely, & even that is optimistic at this stage.https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/852842857559990272
Quote from: FutureSpaceTourist on 04/14/2017 12:09 pmQuote@Arianespace letter to Fr Guiana politicians asking that 3+ wks of roadblocks be ended was badly received. Traffic open only till Monday.https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/852841297551532032QuoteEurope's spaceport: Given Guiana strike, Arianespace return to ops before early May looks unlikely, & even that is optimistic at this stage.https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/852842857559990272Might this be a good time for ESA to start looking around for a less-unfriendly location for their next spaceport? Looks like this one's become unreliable (to the point of needing a backup, at least).
Might this be a good time for ESA to start looking around for a less-unfriendly location for their next spaceport? Looks like this one's become unreliable (to the point of needing a backup, at least).
Quote from: kch on 04/14/2017 10:01 pmMight this be a good time for ESA to start looking around for a less-unfriendly location for their next spaceport? Looks like this one's become unreliable (to the point of needing a backup, at least). Maybe Arianespace needs to dust off the Australian proposal from the late 1970s to have the launch site near Darwin. :-) Political stability was cited as one of the advantages, but we lost out since French Guyana is closer to France.
Woomera is inland. Dropping stages on land is frowned upon in the West these days.
As a citizen from the Netherlands I find the current situation in French Guyana not surprising at all. France has been treating French Guyana like the Dutch treated Suriname and Indonesia (Dutch Indies) in the past. Having a one-sided relationship with a colony (solely for the better of the colonizing country) is a very bad thing, and will eventually backfire, as the French are now finding out. The Dutch learned that lesson the hard way in the late 1940's (Indonesia) and from the 1950's to the 1970's (Suriname).
Quote from: woods170 on 04/15/2017 06:22 pmAs a citizen from the Netherlands I find the current situation in French Guyana not surprising at all. France has been treating French Guyana like the Dutch treated Suriname and Indonesia (Dutch Indies) in the past. Having a one-sided relationship with a colony (solely for the better of the colonizing country) is a very bad thing, and will eventually backfire, as the French are now finding out. The Dutch learned that lesson the hard way in the late 1940's (Indonesia) and from the 1950's to the 1970's (Suriname).This is totally insane and stupid. Are you seriously saying that France treats Guyana as an old-style colony ? really ? this is not French or Belgian Congo, damn it.
Quote from: Archibald on 04/15/2017 07:18 pmQuote from: woods170 on 04/15/2017 06:22 pmAs a citizen from the Netherlands I find the current situation in French Guyana not surprising at all. France has been treating French Guyana like the Dutch treated Suriname and Indonesia (Dutch Indies) in the past. Having a one-sided relationship with a colony (solely for the better of the colonizing country) is a very bad thing, and will eventually backfire, as the French are now finding out. The Dutch learned that lesson the hard way in the late 1940's (Indonesia) and from the 1950's to the 1970's (Suriname).This is totally insane and stupid. Are you seriously saying that France treats Guyana as an old-style colony ? really ? this is not French or Belgian Congo, damn it. No, not old-style colony. Even in Indonesia that had long since ended when WWII broke out. But as second rate to the "home"country... Yes, very much so is France still doing that.
Update from #Kourou: the harbor in #Cayenne is slowly back in action, offloading some ships, roadblock are lifted for trucks until Tuesday
Europe spaceport’s long shutdown a threat to Arianespace scheduleApril 17, 2017[...]In an indication of how the Guiana Space Center has come to symbolize the French state, the protesters maintained a roadblock of the spaceport access road while opening the others to traffic for the weekend.
Has this situation cost Arianespace any launch commitments? I haven't heard of any changes. How long would it have to continue before payloads started to shift? - Ed Kyle
Euro spaceport 1: ~300 Russians who operate Soyuz launches left Fr Guiana, returned to Russia by charter after ~ 4 wks of doing nothing.
Euro spaceport 1: Roadblocks back up in Fr Guiana; movement offers new face-saving deal of little cost to govt. Strike could end this week.
Peter B. de Selding @pbdes 2m2 minutes agoEurope spaceport: Roadblocks up but movement consensus cracking; strikers review new govt proposal. Background ICYMI.
Euro spaceport: Charismatic movement spokesman Mickael Mancee resigns, says roadblocks no longer in public interest, & says re: space center
Update from #kourou agreement might be close, meeting today, possible end in sight #VA236 #CSG
Peter B. de Selding @pbdes 1h1 hour agoEuro spaceport: Roadblocks still up. Movement demands govt decree re additional funds that would bind next govt. (Elections Apr 23/May7).
Quote Peter B. de Selding @pbdes 1h1 hour agoEuro spaceport: Roadblocks still up. Movement demands govt decree re additional funds that would bind next govt. (Elections Apr 23/May7).https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/855008826311012352
Euro spaceport: Indications are that govt & Fr Guiana movement may sign deal today that would end month-long roadblocks.
Peter B. de Selding @pbdes 10m10 minutes agoEuro spaceport: Fr govt & protest movement sign accord; month-long paralysis ends, roadblocks removed; launch prep of ~ 10 days can start.
DutchSpace @DutchSpace 20m20 minutes agoUpdate from #kourou agreement signed, way foward being planned, #VA236 launch possible early May #CSG
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