The all-eventful STS-93 launch

[Austin]

AstroRJY - 19/4/2007  5:57 PM

and also the call both ways at about T+ 65-70 seconds is Go AT  throttle up, never go "with".

Yes...media especially makes this mistake over and over again, of reporting the throttle up call as "go with throttle up."  Kind of tired of hearing it.  It is go AT throttle up.

[rdale]

Eh, with all the things the media can (and will) screw up on, "with" vs "at" are probably pretty safe to ignore ;> I really don't see the difference between those words in this context.

[psloss]

rdale - 21/4/2007  8:48 AM

Eh, with all the things the media can (and will) screw up on, "with" vs "at" are probably pretty safe to ignore ;> I really don't see the difference between those words in this context.

I think the issue is that, yes, "the media" has no clue what the difference between "with" and "at" in this context; however, there's a pretty big difference between being at the bottom of the throttle bucket and being past the bucket altogether.

The media probably also doesn't understand that the throttling is normally automatic and doesn't require an active command; if they had a case with an engine or engines with stuck throttles -- especially in the bucket -- I believe the communications would be different.

[AstroRJY]

You've got it exactly right

[AstroRJY]

Right on.  Remember after Challenger exploded, they journalists kept saying the last " command" radioed was "Mission Control telling Commander Scobnee to go to full power".  It's just irritating.


As laste as 2004 there was a documentary, I beleive done by the National Geographic channel that profiled the STS-107 Columbia mission and portrayed it as though "go for auto-sequence start" at T- 31 sec. was actually the astronauts " turning over control" to the computers.  Then when they were showing the launch scenes, the narrator actually said that  mission control "radios the command to go at throttle up.  The  command will boost the shuttle's escape velocity to 7,500 mph.  (They literally said seventy-five hundred...not seventeen thousand, five hundred...) the  speed necessary to reach orbit."  I was yelling at the TV!  Documentarys are supposed to be as accurate as possible,  right?  And we should strive for accuracy here too and help each other fill in gaps.

[MKremer]

AstroRJY - 23/4/2007  2:38 PM

Right on.  Remember after Challenger exploded, they journalists kept saying the last " command" radioed was "Mission Control telling Commander Scobnee to go to full power".  It's just irritating.

Yup, but remember most of the Press (and, unfortunately, most of the ignorant Public) is conditioned via the Hollywood scifi movies.... as an example:

A view from "the spaceship" hurtling toward a planet, getting closer and closer every second... the planet is rapidly covering the whole screen.

Ground Control: "Fireball XL-5... you are go retros and landing."

FB XL-5: "Copy Control. Starting descent."

XL-5 CO: "You heard him, begin retros and descent."

XL-5 Pilot: "Roger, Commander. Starting retro-fire now."

::: lots of SFX flames as the spaceship decelerates and starts to descend to the ground ::::


The above is how most of the press/public still thinks about spaceflight. So, when hearing "Go at throttle-up", most all of them consider that a command rather than just a timeline status marker announcement.


Actually, I think something like a "Throttle-up is go" announcement to the Shuttle would have overall been less confusing (or at least less misinterpreted).

[Austin]

psloss - 21/4/2007  6:00 AM

I think the issue is that, yes, "the media" has no clue what the difference between "with" and "at" in this context; however, there's a pretty big difference between being at the bottom of the throttle bucket and being past the bucket altogether.

The media probably also doesn't understand that the throttling is normally automatic and doesn't require an active command; if they had a case with an engine or engines with stuck throttles -- especially in the bucket -- I believe the communications would be different.

Exactly!!

[John2375]

It's "Columbia, go AT throttle up"
They're not telling them to do anything with the throttles -it' sjust a checkpoint. . like the roll=program call - they're not telling them to initiate the roll, it's just a verification that they're all on the same page.. and a communications check too.
They're go at throttle up
They're 2-engine Moron
They're single-engine press-to-ATO
these are all checkpoints along the ride uphill..

[rdale]

And go "with" throttle up means the shuttle is okay and will automatically be going "with" the throttle up. As mentioned before, means the same thing to the public, so feel free to get upset about something they really do mess up with!

[madmardy]

John2375 - 25/4/2007  8:42 PM


They're 2-engine Moron
They're single-engine press-to-ATO
these are all checkpoints along the ride uphill..

Quite wrong read the nasa site for once

[AstroRJY]

Nice videos but  the "transcript" isn't too slick and has several errors.

[AstroRJY]

Chris Bergin - 7/9/2005  10:26 PM

Many thanks to poster Stardust for the help with this transcript.

Comm = Commentary
Collins = Lt. Col Eileen Collins (now a Col)
Unknown = Either Houston or Pilot Jeff Ashby
Houston = CAPCOM Scott "Scooter" Altman


Comm: Zero. We have booster ignition and lift-off of Columbia, reaching new heights for women and X-ray astronomy.

Collins: This is Columbia, we're in the roll, we've got a fuel cell (glitch) level one.

Houston: Roger roll Columbia, we're looking at.

Houston: Columbia, Houston, We'd like AC Bus sensors off, we're evaluating the fuel cell.

Pilot: And that's config, scooter - is given.

Pilot & H: Roger that Columbia. Looks like we had a transient on AC-1

Comm: Columbia had now heading down-range altitude of 3.8 mile and as we hear, all systems errr ok - throttling down at 67 per cent.



Houston: And Columbia, Houston, you are go with throttle up.

Collins: Columbia, go with throttle up.

Comm: All 3 engines are back at full throttle. Columbia is now 8 mile down range, altitude 14 mile.

Comm: Flight control team monitoring the electrical systems on board - again all three seem to be healthy, as are the hydraulic systems. We're approaching 1 minute 50 seconds into the flight. Standing by for burn out separation of the solid rocket boosters on the Orbiter. Columbia now has burned more than 2 million lbs of fuel (he said fuel!!) and weighs half of what she did at launch.

Comm: SRB separation is confirmed.

Houston: Columbia - Houston. Performance nominal.

Collins: Performance nominal.

Comm:............ and that reports that the performance of the launch has been as expected, again the electrical system officer at mission control reports that all electrical systems in good shape. Columbia is now 50 mile away from Kennedy Space Center at an altitude of 40 mile. Now travelling at 3200 mph.

Comm: Approaching 3 minutes into the flight, the next call will be shortly after 3 minutes, which will be a 2 engine call for the Transatlantic Abort Site at Benguerra in Morocco. Again all systems healthy, electrical systems, hydraulic systems and the 3 engines - are all at full throttle. There are no issues being tracked and all electrical systems are healthy aboard the Orbiter.

Houston: Columbia - Houston two engine Ben.

Collins: Two Engine Ben

Comm: Columbia can reach Benguerra in the event of a single engine failure, all three engines are still at full throttle. No issues are being reported by the flight control team, all is quiet. It appears that the electrical issue of earlier, appears to have been a sensor. All systems are healthy. Columbia is now 116 miles away from the Kennedy Space Center, at an altitude of 58 miles. Travelling now at almost 4500 mph.

Let me clean up this transcript and fix the bugs in it for you.  There are a couple thigns printed that were not said, a couple thing s ommitted that were said, and a few that are simply misunderstood because of the sound quality of the crew communications with the  launch noise in this tape.  This is timed to have the T=zero at 1:01 into the video.

-01:00 KSC PAO Lisa Malone: T  minus 1 minute and counting.

-00:53 Columbia will be launched on an easterly trajectory on a 28.45 degrees inclination to the equator.

-00:45 T minus 45 seconds.

-00:40 Less than 1 minute away now from the 95th space shuttle launch.  

-00:35 T-35 seconds.  

-00:30 T-30 seconds.

-00:30 GLS: GLS go for auto-sequence start.

-00:25 NTD: 25 seconds.  
-00:20 NTD: 20
-00:20 KSC PAO: T minus 20 seconds.
-00:15 NTD: 15.
-00:15 KSC PAO: T minus 15.

-00:12 KSC PAO: 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, we have a GO for enigne start, zero, we have booster ignition and lift-off of Columbia reaching new heights for women and X-ray astronomy.

+00:09 CDR: Houston, Columbia's  in the roll, we've got a fuel cell pH, number 1.

+00:13 CAPCOM: Roger roll, Columbia, we're looking at it.

+00:26 CAPCOM: Columbia-Houston we'd like AC bus sensors off. We're evaluating the fuel cell.

+00:35 CAPCOM: Columbia--

+00:35 PLT: And that's complete, Scooter.

+00:36 CAPCOM: Roger that Columbia, looks like we had a transient on AC-1.

+00:43 JSC PAO Kyle Herring: Columbia's now headed downrage, altitude 3.8 miles

+00:50 And as we hear all systems okay, looks good onboard.

+00:56 Three engines throttling down, all at 67 percent.

+01:00 CAPCOM: Columbia, Houston. We are critical to AC-2 on the center engine, AC-3 on the right. We've lost DCU A on the center and DCU B on the right.

+01:12 PLT: Copy that.

+01:13 CAPCOM: And Columbia-Houston, you are Go at throttle up.

+01:17 CDR: Columbia; Go at throttle up.

 
+01:19 JSC PAO: All 3 engines are back at full throttle.

+01:23 Columbia's now 8 miles downrage, altitude 14 miles.  

+01:32 The flight control team is monitoring the electrical systems on board, again all 3 fuel cells appear to be healthy, as do the hydraulic systems.

+01:42 We're approaching 1 minute 50 seconds into the flight, standing by for  burnout and separation of the Solid Rocket Boosters on the orbiter.

+01:53 Columbia now has burned more than 2 million pounds of fuel and weighs half of what IT did at launch.

(SRB sep early at +01:58?? according to the clock on this video...)
+02:07 SRB separation is confirmed.

+02:16 CAPCOM: Columbia-Houston, perfromance nomnial.

+02:20 CDR: Performance nominal.

+02:22 Kyle Herring: That report that performance thus far  in the launch phase  has been as expected.  Again, the electrical systems officer (EECOM) here in Mission Control reports that all electrical systems are in good shape. Columbia's now 50 miles away from the Kennedy Space Center at an altitude of 40 miles,

+02:37 Now traveling 3,200 miles per hour.

+02:44 Approaching 3 minutes into the flight, the next call will be shortly after 3 minutes, which will be a 2-engine call for the  transatlantic abort site at Ben Guerir in Morrocco.  Again all sysems healthy, the hydraulic systems, electrical sytems, and 3 engines are at-- are all at full throttle, no issues that are being tracked, again all electrical systems are healthy aboard the orbiter.

+03:14 CAPCOM: Columbia-Houston,  2-enigne Ben.

+03:18 CDR: 2-enigne Ben.

+03:19 Kyle Herring: Columbia can reach Ben Guerir now in the event of a single engine failure, again all 3 are still at full throttle and there are no issues being reported by the flight control team, all is quiet.  It appears that the electrical issue early on appears to have been a sensor. All sysems are again healhty. Columbia is 116 miles away from the Kennedy Space Center at an altitude of 58 miles

+03:43 Traveling now almost 4,500 miles per hour.

[aftercolumbia]

MKremer - 23/4/2007  2:29 PM

Actually, I think something like a "Throttle-up is go" announcement to the Shuttle would have overall been less confusing (or at least less misinterpreted).

Nope...it's the same no matter how you put it.  I do know the sorts of commands like, "no action on the [whatever] message" does happen every now and then.  One of L2's big long massive videos has a master alarm, which is triggered every now and then by a pressure fluctuation during SSME hydraulic repressurization (IIRC.)  "Throttle-up is go" sounds like something you'd say before the engines are throttled up.

[AstroRJY]

Thanks.  What vids are on L2?  I've tried to  register for it once or twice a while back  but didn't complete it.

[Radioheaded]

AstroRJY - 12/5/2007  6:23 PM

Thanks.  What vids are on L2?  I've tried to  register for it once or twice a while back  but didn't complete it.

Only the gem of the STS-115 re-entry from de-orbit burn to wheel stop... That alone is worth the price of "admission"    

[Martin FL]

Radioheaded - 12/5/2007  6:40 PM

AstroRJY - 12/5/2007  6:23 PM

Thanks.  What vids are on L2?  I've tried to  register for it once or twice a while back  but didn't complete it.

Only the gem of the STS-115 re-entry from de-orbit burn to wheel stop... That alone is worth the price of "admission"    

And the MCC overview of this very launch! With all the background talk between the guys in Houston during this dramatic launch with the graphics and the calls such as "Yikes. We don't need anymore of these!"

Really fascinating how they worked through this one. And yes the STS-115 camcorder through re-entry video is awesome And there's a lot more too.

L2 is easy to join. Just fill out the form with your payment and that's it. Just click on the link at the end of this page: http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/L2/

[AstroRJY]

I don't recall anything unusual happening during the STS-115 launch?  But thanks I will check that out at some point soon.  The re-entry video sounds interesting but  I mainly am fascinated by launches from every single angle.  

[Jackson]

AstroRJY - 12/5/2007  8:58 PM

I don't recall anything unusual happening during the STS-115 launch?  But thanks I will check that out at some point soon.  The re-entry video sounds interesting but  I mainly am fascinated by launches from every single angle.  

Like the seven super hi res STS-116 engineering camera launch videos, from all manner of angles of the launch, maybe? That's on there too.

The STS-115 master alarms were during re-entry, not launch.

[Radioheaded]

The videos are merely the icing on the cake!  There's enough documentation to keep you busy for months....  May I suggest a 2 month subscription (only 19.99, and that's what got me hooked) to sample the wealth of information residing there.  I think you'll be pleasantly surprised

[psloss]

AstroRJY - 12/5/2007  9:58 PM

I don't recall anything unusual happening during the STS-115 launch?

Martin is referring to the STS-93 launch -- the L2 video covers the ascent from the MCC point of view.