Quote from: Rodal on 07/13/2015 04:36 pmQuote from: marshallC on 07/13/2015 04:31 pmQuote from: Rodal on 07/13/2015 04:24 pmI think we should not entertain gossip about Eagleworks testing until Star-Drive re-appears, as engaging in such discussion may jeopardize NASA Eagleworks's ongoing efforts, giving NASA's response to the "warp-drive" media articles.Understandable. Thanks!There is a short-fim made about this (if you speak German, turn-off the sound and just read the English subtitles) :http://captiongenerator.com/48295/Hitler-Reacts-to-current-EmDrive-SituationHah, I saw that linked a while back, but only ever browse on my phone, so I never clicked it >_< I'll have to watch it after work.Also, thinking more on the collision of photons, one source said they may form a matter/antimatter pair. If this source is accurate, and collisions are occurring, is it possible the formation and annihilation redirects the forces of the photons in some odd manner?I apologize if I'm derailing the discussion, feel free to stop me at any point
Quote from: marshallC on 07/13/2015 04:31 pmQuote from: Rodal on 07/13/2015 04:24 pmI think we should not entertain gossip about Eagleworks testing until Star-Drive re-appears, as engaging in such discussion may jeopardize NASA Eagleworks's ongoing efforts, giving NASA's response to the "warp-drive" media articles.Understandable. Thanks!There is a short-fim made about this (if you speak German, turn-off the sound and just read the English subtitles) :http://captiongenerator.com/48295/Hitler-Reacts-to-current-EmDrive-Situation
Quote from: Rodal on 07/13/2015 04:24 pmI think we should not entertain gossip about Eagleworks testing until Star-Drive re-appears, as engaging in such discussion may jeopardize NASA Eagleworks's ongoing efforts, giving NASA's response to the "warp-drive" media articles.Understandable. Thanks!
I think we should not entertain gossip about Eagleworks testing until Star-Drive re-appears, as engaging in such discussion may jeopardize NASA Eagleworks's ongoing efforts, giving NASA's response to the "warp-drive" media articles.
Quote from: marshallC on 07/13/2015 04:50 pmQuote from: Rodal on 07/13/2015 04:36 pmQuote from: marshallC on 07/13/2015 04:31 pmQuote from: Rodal on 07/13/2015 04:24 pmI think we should not entertain gossip about Eagleworks testing until Star-Drive re-appears, as engaging in such discussion may jeopardize NASA Eagleworks's ongoing efforts, giving NASA's response to the "warp-drive" media articles.Understandable. Thanks!There is a short-fim made about this (if you speak German, turn-off the sound and just read the English subtitles) :http://captiongenerator.com/48295/Hitler-Reacts-to-current-EmDrive-SituationHah, I saw that linked a while back, but only ever browse on my phone, so I never clicked it >_< I'll have to watch it after work.Also, thinking more on the collision of photons, one source said they may form a matter/antimatter pair. If this source is accurate, and collisions are occurring, is it possible the formation and annihilation redirects the forces of the photons in some odd manner?I apologize if I'm derailing the discussion, feel free to stop me at any point Photons do scatter off one another, but the energy densities required are beyond experimental reach currently. PVAS is the European facility that promises to get closest to seeing at least some nonlinearities in the near future using extremely high-power lasers. For ordinary experiments, you might as well assume they don't see each other at all.
Quote from: SeeShells on 07/13/2015 02:51 pmI posted a Danger alert and it went poof. Summary as I'll try again, weird.I asked why the shape of the calculated stress values were shaped around the antenna like they were, squeezed in the forward accelerating direction and flattened out to the sides.It reminds me of Einstein effects for an object approaching the speed of light. Interesting all other meep views were of this nice round antenna shape.Just wondering how that compressed stress took that shape.ShellI don't recall Meep views of a round antenna shape. The antenna is much longer in one direction and has a "thickness" of only 2 Finite Difference nodes.So, viewed from one side the antenna looks like a line, and when looked from the perpendicular view it looks like a point (or a very small circle of just 2 Finite Difference nodes).When plotting the stress as the height of the "line antenna" the stress looks like a plate with rounded corners at the top.Could you please link to the message, or even better copy and paste the round antenna image in your response ?I need to see the 2 images you are referring to as a picture is worth a thousand words.Thanks
I posted a Danger alert and it went poof. Summary as I'll try again, weird.I asked why the shape of the calculated stress values were shaped around the antenna like they were, squeezed in the forward accelerating direction and flattened out to the sides.It reminds me of Einstein effects for an object approaching the speed of light. Interesting all other meep views were of this nice round antenna shape.Just wondering how that compressed stress took that shape.Shell
Quote from: deltaMass on 07/13/2015 04:55 pmQuote from: marshallC on 07/13/2015 04:50 pmQuote from: Rodal on 07/13/2015 04:36 pmQuote from: marshallC on 07/13/2015 04:31 pmQuote from: Rodal on 07/13/2015 04:24 pmI think we should not entertain gossip about Eagleworks testing until Star-Drive re-appears, as engaging in such discussion may jeopardize NASA Eagleworks's ongoing efforts, giving NASA's response to the "warp-drive" media articles.Understandable. Thanks!There is a short-fim made about this (if you speak German, turn-off the sound and just read the English subtitles) :http://captiongenerator.com/48295/Hitler-Reacts-to-current-EmDrive-SituationHah, I saw that linked a while back, but only ever browse on my phone, so I never clicked it >_< I'll have to watch it after work.Also, thinking more on the collision of photons, one source said they may form a matter/antimatter pair. If this source is accurate, and collisions are occurring, is it possible the formation and annihilation redirects the forces of the photons in some odd manner?I apologize if I'm derailing the discussion, feel free to stop me at any point Photons do scatter off one another, but the energy densities required are beyond experimental reach currently. PVAS is the European facility that promises to get closest to seeing at least some nonlinearities in the near future using extremely high-power lasers. For ordinary experiments, you might as well assume they don't see each other at all.And just to be sure, that includes considering the frustrum's shape being a wave-guide, correct? I'm not sure if that would make them more likely to connect, despite the small density.
...Does anyone see any downside to those lower frequencies? Why does he go TM010 when it looks like TE012 on the experiments does better?
Give it up. EmDrive contains no black holes, cosmic strings, gravity anomalies, self-interacting photons, axions, WIMPs, MACHOs, pink unicorns or floobie-dust.Although there might be some floobie-dust
Quote from: CraigPichach on 07/13/2015 04:45 pm...Does anyone see any downside to those lower frequencies? Why does he go TM010 when it looks like TE012 on the experiments does better?Resonant response should be higher at lower frequency modes: something true in all kinds of resonance oscillations, including electromagnetic resonance.The issue here is the controversy surrounding the EM Drive, as to whether it is a real effect or an experimental artifact. If it is a real effect, how can it get propulsion without violating conservation of momentum? Is it a free-energy machine? Until we know how it works, we won't know precisely whether certain modes are better than others . Yang has reported highest thrust and she has written that TE modes are to be preferred. It looks like Shawyer has favored TE modes, particularly after discarding the dielectric inserts. NASA Eagleworks preference for TM modes may be related to their preference to use dielectric inserts, as TM modes have an electric field in the longitudinal direction of the EM Drive and it may favor the interaction of the electric axial field with the dielectric.NASA reported the highest thrust/inputPower with TE012 with a dielectric but it looks like it was difficult to reproduce. They reported no thrust with TE012 without a dielectric.So, in a few words, their preference for TM010 instead of TE012 may be due to:1) TM010 has lower frequency thant TE012, which should translate in higher amplitude2) preference for TM modes in general because that's what they have been using the most in their testing (although for this particular example they were not intending to use a dielectric)3) Dr. White's QV computer program may favor TM over TE modes even without a dielectric.
Quote from: SeeShells on 07/13/2015 05:04 pm...You 're quite right the antenna is being shown in the horizontal plane not the vertical. I asked the question nicely and did say it was a danger alert. It is the exact way it should be and nothing is funny about it.Sorry, I am a foreigner and don't understand what Danger Alert meant . I might have been clueless, was that a Lost in Space reference?
...You 're quite right the antenna is being shown in the horizontal plane not the vertical. I asked the question nicely and did say it was a danger alert. It is the exact way it should be and nothing is funny about it.
A question popped into my head today - can photons collide/interfere, and if so,...
Quote from: Rodal on 07/13/2015 05:24 pmQuote from: SeeShells on 07/13/2015 05:04 pm...You 're quite right the antenna is being shown in the horizontal plane not the vertical. I asked the question nicely and did say it was a danger alert. It is the exact way it should be and nothing is funny about it.Sorry, I am a foreigner and don't understand what Danger Alert meant . I might have been clueless, was that a Lost in Space reference?Yes, it is a Lost in Space reference. It means a visual type Engineer thinking about physics and postulating by what they see.
... my theory du jour for the operating principle of the emDrive. The asymmetric resonator is creating a standing wave of photons producing identical radiation pressure on the front and rear endplates. Some light is leaking into the space at the small end and is trapped bouncing back and forth between the standing waves (no radiation pressure) and the small end (radiation pressure). This latter light is what moves the drive.
Quote from: Rodal on 07/13/2015 05:07 pmQuote from: CraigPichach on 07/13/2015 04:45 pm...Does anyone see any downside to those lower frequencies? Why does he go TM010 when it looks like TE012 on the experiments does better?Resonant response should be higher at lower frequency modes: something true in all kinds of resonance oscillations, including electromagnetic resonance.The issue here is the controversy surrounding the EM Drive, as to whether it is a real effect or an experimental artifact. If it is a real effect, how can it get propulsion without violating conservation of momentum? Is it a free-energy machine? Until we know how it works, we won't know precisely whether certain modes are better than others . Yang has reported highest thrust and she has written that TE modes are to be preferred. It looks like Shawyer has favored TE modes, particularly after discarding the dielectric inserts. NASA Eagleworks preference for TM modes may be related to their preference to use dielectric inserts, as TM modes have an electric field in the longitudinal direction of the EM Drive and it may favor the interaction of the electric axial field with the dielectric.NASA reported the highest thrust/inputPower with TE012 with a dielectric but it looks like it was difficult to reproduce. They reported no thrust with TE012 without a dielectric.So, in a few words, their preference for TM010 instead of TE012 may be due to:1) TM010 has lower frequency thant TE012, which should translate in higher amplitude2) preference for TM modes in general because that's what they have been using the most in their testing (although for this particular example they were not intending to use a dielectric)3) Dr. White's QV computer program may favor TM over TE modes even without a dielectric.Honestly I think that is why Paul's design makes the most sense for next step - fire an EM Thruster with enough juice that you produce some usable results, however inefficient or unoptimized - to at least determine if all of the theoretical arguments are worth spending time analyzing. My guess is that we need more experimental data anyway to validate a theory (especially if we are talking quantum vacuum), if any theory ends up being needed. If it is a real effect than let's see something real. Man discovered and used fire before understanding combustion. Let's get a thrust > 1 N - for $20K that is money well spent win or lose. My understanding on the HDPE dielectric is that NASA thought it was only needed due to the low power input of their experiments and that at the kW range no additional dielectric is needed (apart from air) which is why Shawyer's EMDrive experiments work with no HDPE insert? I think the liquid cooling is literally dump the Q-thruster in a pail of cold water and fire it for a second; at >1N thrust that's all you need to get a result.... that is if you actually can design the thruster for 957.833MHz at TM010. My worry is that you build this thruster using a 915MHz unit at TM010 and it does nothing, where as if you could fire it at exactly 957.833MHz the thing would take off (which seemed to occur in the experiments). Wish I knew how to modify that CWM-100L across the L-band but it looks like they are just +/- 10MHz. Any solutions here? Wish I knew the tolerance on that COMSOL screen shot, I would assume that is the 17"Od x 28" long unit at 957MHz. I bet he ran it at 929Hz too and that is "off set high" case....... tempted just to go ahead and try and see what happens. Have a local University willing to run tests on it.
Quote from: marshallC on 07/13/2015 04:21 pmA question popped into my head today - can photons collide/interfere, and if so,...I can't answer your latter questions, but I can answer this one.Yes, photons can collide and interfere. One of the really fascinating things about light is that it can, in photon-photon interactions, behave as if it has no mass, positive mass, or negative mass. For all of these cases, F=mA still applies. If you interact a photon in positive mass mode with a photon in negative mass mode then you can have two photons exit the collision moving in the same direction. This is real, measurable, and breaks the symmetry of Newtons 3rd law [1].(end of facts, beginning wild supposition here)The above effect leads directly to my theory du jour for the operating principle of the emDrive. The asymmetric resonator is creating a standing wave of photons producing identical radiation pressure on the front and rear endplates. Some light is leaking into the space at the small end and is trapped bouncing back and forth between the standing waves (no radiation pressure) and the small end (radiation pressure). This latter light is what moves the drive. The reflectivity of the small end and the strength of the standing wave determine the "lifespan" of the trapped light and explain the correlation between Q and thrust.I have a few ideas on proving this, but nothing substantial yet.[1] Optical diametric drive acceleration through action–reaction symmetry breaking - Martin Wimmer, Alois Regensburger, Christoph Bersch, Mohammad-Ali Miri, Sascha Batz, Georgy Onishchukov, Demetrios N. Christodoulides & Ulf Peschel http://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/v9/n12/full/nphys2777.html(If your local library has ebscohost, it is available there in full text.)
Quote from Paul March: "As to crowd sourcing, as I and several others have tried to explain on the NASASpaceFlight.com EM-Drive forum in the past, NASA projects can't take outside funding from non-government entities except via a space act agreement through NASA Headquarters in Washington DC, so crowd sourcing is not possible. However thanks for the thought."However, I see a small chance. Tomorrow New Horizons will pass Pluto at closest distance. And this event could remind everyone that this will be the last planetoid extraterrestrial unknown object that we will discover.It will remind them, that without new propulsion technology this will be the end of human space exploration.What if we start a white house petition to show the government the people's interest in investigating the EMDrive concept?If all who visited this thread would sign it.. I think this would increase the chances for a space act drastically.
I did not receive a reply from the FEFF project. But I have now configured an AMI image based on Ubuntu with meep installed. I have also uploaded aero's file to it. Also, for some strange reason (meep version differences?) I had to change all occurences of the type:(define variable)(set! variable some-value)to(define variable some-value)in order to get the simulation to start.Also, I have wrapped the main run statement in a (synchronized-magnetic ...) statement, to avoid the situation described on the meep wiki:Quote from: meep wikiIn the finite-difference time-domain method, the electric and magnetic fields are stored at different times (and different y O(Δt2), which is the best we can do in second-order FDTD. ... Snip ...Meep also saves a copy of the magnetic fields at t − Δt / 2, so that it can restore those fields for subsequent timestepping. Ok, so most of the configuration work is done. My questions are now:1) How many cycles should we run?2) Is user apoc2021's generous offer to donate server time still open?
In the finite-difference time-domain method, the electric and magnetic fields are stored at different times (and different y O(Δt2), which is the best we can do in second-order FDTD. ... Snip ...Meep also saves a copy of the magnetic fields at t − Δt / 2, so that it can restore those fields for subsequent timestepping.
...>The problem is EW does not have 20k $ to spend "win or lose". And, what makes it very painful if you ask me, we the people are not allowed to crowdfund their work....However, I see a small chance. Tomorrow New Horizons will pass Pluto at closest distance. And this event could remind everyone that this will be the last planetoid extraterrestrial unknown object that we will discover.It will remind them, that without new propulsion technology this will be the end of human space exploration.What if we start a white house petition to show the government the people's interest in investigating the EMDrive concept?If all who visited this thread would sign it.. I think this would increase the chances for a space act drastically.
>The problem is EW does not have 20k $ to spend "win or lose". And, what makes it very painful if you ask me, we the people are not allowed to crowdfund their work.Quote from Paul March: "As to crowd sourcing, as I and several others have tried to explain on the NASASpaceFlight.com EM-Drive forum in the past, NASA projects can't take outside funding from non-government entities except via a space act agreement through NASA Headquarters in Washington DC, so crowd sourcing is not possible. However thanks for the thought."However, I see a small chance. Tomorrow New Horizons will pass Pluto at closest distance. And this event could remind everyone that this will be the last planetoid extraterrestrial unknown object that we will discover.It will remind them, that without new propulsion technology this will be the end of human space exploration.What if we start a white house petition to show the government the people's interest in investigating the EMDrive concept?If all who visited this thread would sign it.. I think this would increase the chances for a space act drastically.
Quote from: dumbo on 07/13/2015 08:27 amI did not receive a reply from the FEFF project. But I have now configured an AMI image based on Ubuntu with meep installed. I have also uploaded aero's file to it. Also, for some strange reason (meep version differences?) I had to change all occurences of the type:(define variable)(set! variable some-value)to(define variable some-value)in order to get the simulation to start.Also, I have wrapped the main run statement in a (synchronized-magnetic ...) statement, to avoid the situation described on the meep wiki:Quote from: meep wikiIn the finite-difference time-domain method, the electric and magnetic fields are stored at different times (and different y O(Δt2), which is the best we can do in second-order FDTD. ... Snip ...Meep also saves a copy of the magnetic fields at t − Δt / 2, so that it can restore those fields for subsequent timestepping. Ok, so most of the configuration work is done. My questions are now:1) How many cycles should we run?2) Is user apoc2021's generous offer to donate server time still open?I would like to see the changes you have made, particularly "Also, I have wrapped the main run statement in a (synchronized-magnetic ...) statement, to avoid the situation described on the meep wiki:"If you would be so kind as to post the snippets showing the relevant code.