Author Topic: LIVE: GSLV Mk-3 1st test launch (X1) December 18, 2014 (0400UTC)  (Read 417199 times)

Offline input~2

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Re: GSLV Mk-3 first launch January 2014
« Reply #80 on: 04/09/2013 03:21 pm »
« Last Edit: 04/09/2013 03:26 pm by input~2 »

Offline antriksh

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Re: GSLV Mk-3 first test launch (X1) January 2014
« Reply #81 on: 04/10/2013 03:36 am »
The LVM3-X mission will have crew module as its payload.
Nasadiya Sukta:
Srishti se pehle sat nahin thaa, asat bhi nahin | Antariksh bhi nahin, aakaash bhi nahin thaa | chhipaa thaa kyaa, kahaan, kisne dhakaa thaa | us pal to agam, atal jal bhi kahaan thaa ||

From: 1st verse of 129th Hymn of the 10th Book of Rig Veda

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: GSLV Mk-3 first test launch (X1) January 2014
« Reply #82 on: 04/10/2013 07:25 am »
The LVM3-X mission will have crew module as its payload.

Can you tell us what LVM3-X stands for?
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Re: GSLV Mk-3 first test launch (X1) January 2014
« Reply #83 on: 04/10/2013 07:27 am »
The LVM3-X mission will have crew module as its payload.

They got a boilerplate lying somewhere!?  :o
Astronomy & spaceflight geek penguin. In a relationship w/ Space Shuttle Discovery.

Offline antriksh

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Re: GSLV Mk-3 first test launch (X1) January 2014
« Reply #84 on: 04/10/2013 12:15 pm »
The LVM3-X mission will have crew module as its payload.

Can you tell us what LVM3-X stands for?

Launch Vehicle Mark-3 eXperimental mission.
« Last Edit: 04/10/2013 12:17 pm by antriksh »
Nasadiya Sukta:
Srishti se pehle sat nahin thaa, asat bhi nahin | Antariksh bhi nahin, aakaash bhi nahin thaa | chhipaa thaa kyaa, kahaan, kisne dhakaa thaa | us pal to agam, atal jal bhi kahaan thaa ||

From: 1st verse of 129th Hymn of the 10th Book of Rig Veda

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: GSLV Mk-3 first test launch (X1) January 2014
« Reply #85 on: 04/11/2013 07:46 am »
Thanks antriksh!
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline sanman

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Re: GSLV Mk-3 first test launch (X1) January 2014
« Reply #86 on: 04/17/2013 04:29 am »
The LVM3-X mission will have crew module as its payload.

Can you tell me your source for this info? I couldn't find any article confirming this.


Meanwhile:

http://www.sawfnews.com/Health/70762.aspx

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: GSLV Mk-3 first test launch (X1) January 2014
« Reply #87 on: 04/17/2013 08:07 am »
That article is saying that the launch is scheduled for April 2014.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline sanman

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Re: GSLV Mk-3 first test launch (X1) January 2014
« Reply #88 on: 04/17/2013 08:52 pm »
Well, I'm more interested in the information about the Crew Module being the payload, because of its implications for the Human SpaceFlight program.

Also, if the Crew Module is the payload, I'm thinking that it would likely make the planned SRE-2 mission redundant and unnecessary. So I'm wondering if they'll cancel SRE-2.

Offline antriksh

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Re: GSLV Mk-3 first test launch (X1) January 2014
« Reply #89 on: 04/18/2013 02:30 am »

Also, if the Crew Module is the payload, I'm thinking that it would likely make the planned SRE-2 mission redundant and unnecessary. So I'm wondering if they'll cancel SRE-2.

The goal of SRE is not to develop crew module, but to demonstrate reusable tech (like C-C materials, silica tiles etc), hypersonic reentry and NC&G tech, recovery and also it is a cheap platform to conduct micro-gravity experiments. SRE-2 will carry six experiments.


Well, I'm more interested in the information about the Crew Module being the payload, because of its implications for the Human SpaceFlight program.


source: Isro budget 2013-2014
Nasadiya Sukta:
Srishti se pehle sat nahin thaa, asat bhi nahin | Antariksh bhi nahin, aakaash bhi nahin thaa | chhipaa thaa kyaa, kahaan, kisne dhakaa thaa | us pal to agam, atal jal bhi kahaan thaa ||

From: 1st verse of 129th Hymn of the 10th Book of Rig Veda

Offline sanman

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Re: GSLV Mk-3 first test launch (X1) January 2014
« Reply #90 on: 04/18/2013 03:32 am »
The goal of SRE is not to develop crew module, but to demonstrate reusable tech (like C-C materials, silica tiles etc), hypersonic reentry and NC&G tech, recovery and also it is a cheap platform to conduct micro-gravity experiments. SRE-2 will carry six experiments.

I thought the main goal of SRE-2 was to further validate re-entry technologies such as thermal protection system, as well as some basic life support.

Usually, when such platforms are launched, they always carry some basic science experiments (microgravity, etc) to make productive use of the payload capacity.


Anyway, if the Crew Module is launched on the LVM3-X developmental flight, then what kind of measurement and validation will they be doing for the Crew Module? What kinds of data will they be gathering?

Offline antriksh

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Re: GSLV Mk-3 first test launch (X1) January 2014
« Reply #91 on: 04/18/2013 10:48 am »
I thought the main goal of SRE-2 was to further validate re-entry technologies such as thermal protection system, as well as some basic life support.

Usually, when such platforms are launched, they always carry some basic science experiments (microgravity, etc) to make productive use of the payload capacity.


Anyway, if the Crew Module is launched on the LVM3-X developmental flight, then what kind of measurement and validation will they be doing for the Crew Module? What kinds of data will they be gathering?

You are right about the re-entry technologies part, but there is no plan to test the basic life support tech on SRE. Apart from that, it also demonstrates hypersonic flight profile and recovery technologies. All the tech demonstrated will feed into developing upper stage of the RLV-TSTO and will also help in the HSP.


Anyway, if the Crew Module is launched on the LVM3-X developmental flight, then what kind of measurement and validation will they be doing for the Crew Module? What kinds of data will they be gathering?

Well, one important measurement will be the g levels. Throughout the flight profile the g loads must not increase 4g, ISRO has to ensure that. They also have to ensure min level of oscillations in the module. 
« Last Edit: 04/19/2013 05:44 am by antriksh »
Nasadiya Sukta:
Srishti se pehle sat nahin thaa, asat bhi nahin | Antariksh bhi nahin, aakaash bhi nahin thaa | chhipaa thaa kyaa, kahaan, kisne dhakaa thaa | us pal to agam, atal jal bhi kahaan thaa ||

From: 1st verse of 129th Hymn of the 10th Book of Rig Veda

Offline antriksh

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Re: GSLV Mk-3 first test launch (X1) January-April 2014
« Reply #92 on: 06/12/2013 02:04 pm »
« Last Edit: 06/12/2013 02:05 pm by antriksh »
Nasadiya Sukta:
Srishti se pehle sat nahin thaa, asat bhi nahin | Antariksh bhi nahin, aakaash bhi nahin thaa | chhipaa thaa kyaa, kahaan, kisne dhakaa thaa | us pal to agam, atal jal bhi kahaan thaa ||

From: 1st verse of 129th Hymn of the 10th Book of Rig Veda

Offline antriksh

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Re: GSLV Mk-3 first test launch (X1) NET March 2014
« Reply #93 on: 07/14/2013 04:48 am »
Nasadiya Sukta:
Srishti se pehle sat nahin thaa, asat bhi nahin | Antariksh bhi nahin, aakaash bhi nahin thaa | chhipaa thaa kyaa, kahaan, kisne dhakaa thaa | us pal to agam, atal jal bhi kahaan thaa ||

From: 1st verse of 129th Hymn of the 10th Book of Rig Veda

Offline antriksh

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Re: GSLV Mk-3 first test launch (X1) NET March 2014
« Reply #94 on: 07/21/2013 04:23 pm »

LVM3 Executive model for aerodynmic testing handing over to ISRO
Nasadiya Sukta:
Srishti se pehle sat nahin thaa, asat bhi nahin | Antariksh bhi nahin, aakaash bhi nahin thaa | chhipaa thaa kyaa, kahaan, kisne dhakaa thaa | us pal to agam, atal jal bhi kahaan thaa ||

From: 1st verse of 129th Hymn of the 10th Book of Rig Veda

Offline chota

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Re: GSLV Mk-3 first test launch (X1) NET March 2014
« Reply #95 on: 09/21/2013 07:41 am »
The payload for GSLV Mk-3 experimental test is proposed to be the human space capsule

Offline K210

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Re: GSLV Mk-3 first test launch (X1) NET March 2014
« Reply #96 on: 11/29/2013 06:55 am »
This article places the launch in third week of December:
http://bit.ly/18nN6DD

I. have. no. words. No words. Yes, it's ToI, but this is a new low - even for them.

Quote
" ... The GSLV Mark III variant, initial launch planned by April next year is a sub-orbital flight test having the first and second stage active solid and liquid propellants, its cryogenic stage will be passive," said Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre (VSSC) director S Ramakrishnan.

(Emphasis mine)
What. in. the. HELL. does that mean? Testing a rocket with an upper stage mass simulator is simply not the same as saying 'Yeah, we'll launch the rocket in the final operational flight configuration - with a fully fuelled, and fully operational upper (and most expensive) stage; but we won't start it' - which is what that quote seems to imply. Unbelievably, that seems to be a direct quote from the VSSC director. If I were him, I'd call back and clarify - but I doubt ToI'll run errata.

But wait.. that's not it.

Quote
"An advanced heavy cryogenic engine C-25 is being designed with 25 ton propellant loading with 20 tonnes of engine thrust for the GSLV Mk-3 D-1 mission in early 2017," he said. "The huge cryogenic engine is slated for completion and testing by 2015."
(Emphasis mine)
WHAT? 25 ton propellant loading, with 20 tonnes of thrust (yes, I noticed the inconsistency in spelling of 'tonne' in the same sentence) is not an engine... on the contrary, it's a very heavy piece of equipment that's going to fall out of the sky! Again, these figures might be accurate, if the stage has 25 tonnes of prop, and has 2 x 20 tonne thrust engines. (But that's quite an acceleration for the upper stage and payload, unless the engines are capable of deep throttling).

It might even be possible to have a 25 tonne upper stage (and this is prop weight only, and not engine weight) that is already orbital prior to its ignition. But I seriously doubt that - especially since the same 'article' has said that the GSLV-Mk III's first developmental flight is going to be sub-orbital.

Finally,

Quote
Oxygen remains a liquid only at temperatures below minus 1830 Celsius and Hydrogen at minus 2530 Celsius, developing a cryogenic engine from such propellants is a crucial test.

<Shaking head>

I swear all it takes to get the degree symbol into any commonly used text editor is googling "degree symbol" and copy pasting it. Like so. 


Don't tell me the typesetting software for the newspaper doesn't support it. They were extremely quick to chest-thump and use the rupee symbol (which still doesn't have a unicode character assigned to it) as soon as it was adopted (EDIT: before unicode support) - but they can't use "" ? ESPECIALLY when, you know, being the country that's credited with the invention of 'zero' (atleast in the same chest thumping vein of popular culture), we should really understand place value. Screw that, you should really understand place value if you're literate. Forget country of origin.

Yeah, there's a vanishingly small chance that the 'reporter' was aware of research in , but that still doesn't change the boiling points of LOX and LH2.

Oh, and yes... I also noticed the use of a comma instead of a semicolon, and the telling lack of a conjunction.

</rant>

PS : I've sent feedback with the permalink to this message

regarding the gslv-3 the upper stage cannot be started even if they wanted to because the CE-20 engine that powers it is not ready. In the flight next year the C-25 stage will be filled with propellant to test the aerodynamic performance of the rocket in the upper atmosphere.
« Last Edit: 12/02/2013 07:06 pm by input~2 »

Offline sanman

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Re: GSLV Mk-3 first test launch (X1) NET March 2014
« Reply #97 on: 11/30/2013 12:40 pm »
regarding the gslv-3 the upper stage cannot be started even if they wanted to because the CE-20 engine that powers it is not ready. In the flight next year the C-25 stage will be filled with propellant to test the aerodynamic performance of the rocket in the upper atmosphere.

Yes, my understanding is that a dummy C-25 stage will be flown instead of a working one. I wonder why they're doing it this way, instead of waiting for the CE-20 engine to be flight ready, so that they could test the full launch stack. It seems that they're only doing this "aerodynamic test flight" in order to keep up with a schedule, even if it means that flight test is only partial.

I'm not sure what they'd get out of putting a man-capable space capsule on there, if there's no active upper stage to deliver it high enough.
« Last Edit: 12/02/2013 07:05 pm by input~2 »

Offline johnxx9

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Re: GSLV Mk-3 first test launch (X1) NET March 2014
« Reply #98 on: 12/01/2013 07:14 am »

Yes, my understanding is that a dummy C-25 stage will be flown instead of a working one. I wonder why they're doing it this way, instead of waiting for the CE-20 engine to be flight ready, so that they could test the full launch stack. It seems that they're only doing this "aerodynamic test flight" in order to keep up with a schedule, even if it means that flight test is only partial.

I'm not sure what they'd get out of putting a man-capable space capsule on there, if there's no active upper stage to deliver it high enough.

CE-20 and C-25 are still a good 2-3 years away. There are just so many things that are still left to be done to get that stage qualified for flight. I guess due to number of delays this program has had, ISRO wants to get up and running with the program. IIRC the MkIII program when sanctioned planned on its first launch in 2004.
« Last Edit: 12/02/2013 07:03 pm by input~2 »

Offline AJA

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Re: GSLV Mk-3 first test launch (X1) April 2014
« Reply #99 on: 12/01/2013 06:12 pm »
Remember that people from the same organisation were - very recently - praising their accurate engineering models, and software simulations; talking about how it helps them minimise the number of flight tests; minimise production of test hardware- enabling them to complete missions on shoestring budgets. They mentioned all that in the context of Mangalyaan.


The fact that they're thinking of conducting a test launch of a ROCKET (way more expensive) with a mass simulator is itself incongruous with such a design approach. On top of that, you're telling me that they care so much about the fidelity of the mass simulator distribution (to an operational stage's mass distribution) that they're going to put an incomplete engine there, and not fire it? That doesn't make sense. The error bars from the missing systems would dwarf the precision gains from making mass simulator as realistic as possible.


Finally, no upper stage firing = no payload delivery. Even to LEO. Why would you cut off one of the sources of funding for your test launch? Yeah, they wouldn't be able to charge much - given it's a first launch. But it's still something. They can easily find fifty cubesats for example. Offer the launch window to University teams across the country.


History too, isn't on the side of a dummy stage. All GSLV flights have had payloads - even the developmental flights.


All said and done, I really doubt they're going to have a test launch with a dummy stage. If it's not ready, they'll push the test back. They've already surprised many with the record pace on Mangalyaan. We've already had sometime with Russian engines so a) we know it can be done, b) you can reverse-engineer to a certain extent (and if pushed for time, mimic). [size=78%]P[/size]lus, I think the technology transfer embargo's been lifted now, and we're not subject to ITAR restrictions? So, I wouldn't be too surprised if their development cycles for CE-20 and C-25 are shorter than expected. Also, given ISRO's taciturnity, the space-fan public are probably underestimating how long they've been working on the cryogenic engines too.

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