Sierra Space Dream Chaser DISCUSSION Thread (was SNC)

[Jim]

The "availability" may be a competition for launch slots out of VIF-G, not actual LVs.

nor really, just a ploy to spread the blame.

[Jim]

Maybe Sierra Space could market or sell Dream Chaser to the ESA or JAXA?

to do what?

[StraumliBlight]

Maybe Sierra Space could market or sell Dream Chaser to the ESA or JAXA?

Dream Chaser® for European Utilization [Nov 22, 2017]

Implement European Technologies, Services and Infrastructures
– Ariane 6.4 Launcher
– Licensed landing sites in Europe (Dream Chaser able to land wherever a B737 or A320 lands)

[jarmumd]

Maybe Sierra Space could market or sell Dream Chaser to the ESA or JAXA?

Dream Chaser® for European Utilization [Nov 22, 2017]

Implement European Technologies, Services and Infrastructures
– Ariane 6.4 Launcher
– Licensed landing sites in Europe (Dream Chaser able to land wherever a B737 or A320 lands)

And that's a good thought, that DC could be a free-flying research bed that can also return payloads to a land-based landing strip.

I think the bigger question is though...  If ESA saw value in DC as an independent testbed, are they paying for that as a capability?  ie is there another source of funding for DC beyond ISS cargo?

I would say that there is some actual inertia there.  Sierra Space has agreements with JAXA as well as ESA, and if they work with Starlab (who I thought had an agreement with Airbus?), there is a strong international component to a CLD supported by Starlab and DC.  But is there the money?  Maybe?

[Tywin]

ESA have the SpaceRider...

[Tywin]

But why cancel the contract?

Two spaceships almost ready like Starliner and Dream Chaser, is absolute disaster not give time and money to work now...

[Tywin]

The Dream Chaser is a low G recovery-reentry spacecraft that is important for some cargo...

[sdsds]

Reading between the lines it looks like Sierra lost their place in line for a Vulcan launch. They had a contract for an early launch. Is there a 'best practice' in the industry for how that kind of contract is structured? Vulcan Cert-1 was January 8, 2024. Just guessing: maybe that started a clock requiring Sierra to fly within 24 months. If they now can't make January 2026 has that contract effectively expired? Are they now taking a place at the back of the line?

[jstrotha0975]

ESA have the SpaceRider...

I don't know the numbers, but Dream Chaser is likely to be more capable, larger and heavier payload.

[catdlr]

ESA have the SpaceRider...

I don't know the numbers, but Dream Chaser is likely to be more capable, larger and heavier payload.

[jstrotha0975]

Dream Chaser time in orbit can be extended by a fuel cell, which Honda is already developing one for Dream Chaser. I don't know if it will be cancelled now since they are no longer going to the ISS on their first mission. Also DC can land on almost any runway. Not sure if the other can with a parafoil.

[jstrotha0975]

Maybe Sierra Space could market or sell Dream Chaser to the ESA or JAXA?

to do what?

European access to commercial space stations, of which several are in the works.

[JAFO]

It seems like the system that is delaying her is the system that was supposed to give her the greatest flexibility and be one of her strengths, the non-toxic propulsion system allowing it to land at any airport without possibly creating a toxic/hazardous environment.

[Jim]

But why cancel the contract?

Because they are not ready.  They were not due anymore money from NASA unless they met some milestones and by now it was likely the launch milestone.

[Jim]

Maybe Sierra Space could market or sell Dream Chaser to the ESA or JAXA?

to do what?

European access to commercial space stations, of which several are in the works.

meh.  Are any cutting metal?

[Jim]

The Dream Chaser is a low G recovery-reentry spacecraft that is important for some cargo...

Haven't needed it for more than 10 years

[mn]

Perhaps I missed it but was there any mention of payment for this free flight (if it happens).

Is this now a payable milestone in the new contract?

Edit:
Just reread the official announcement, absolutely nothing about money mentioned there.

Such a contract modification must include changes to financial terms, NASA keeping secrets?

[StraumliBlight]

Table of how the scheduled launch date has slipped over the years, though I'm probably missing some announcements. Also here's a rough attempt to chart it.

Announcement Date	Launch Date
10/04/2007	2009
01/01/2011	2014
23/01/2014	2016 Nov
15/03/2015	2018
15/01/2016	2019 H1
22/06/2016	2019 Oct
19/07/2017	2020
07/02/2018	2020 Late
01/12/2018	Early 2021
14/08/2019	2021 Late
01/10/2019	2021 Q4
18/11/2020	2022
18/12/2020	2022 Jan
08/02/2021	2022
17/05/2022	2023 Feb
23/05/2023	2023 H2
15/12/2023	2024
15/12/2023	2024 H1
20/05/2024	2024 H2
29/08/2024	2025
17/09/2024	2024 Dec
15/10/2024	2025 May
25/09/2025	2026 Late

[Nomadd]

The Dream Chaser is a low G recovery-reentry spacecraft that is important for some cargo...

Haven't needed it for more than 10 years

How would anybody "need" it if it wasn't available? Nobody is going to make crystals or solutions or compounds in zero g that can't handle 3G landings if they can't get the ride.

[zubenelgenubi]

Worriesome, at best. Was it a bookkeeping oversight, or deliberate non-payment due to a shortage of funds?

Perhaps deliberate non-payment because Dream Chaser is not yet (nearly) ready for those tests?