[Quoting Marcia Smith... [not sure how those quotes would go since you didn't actually say anything...
Jim Free says science is his biggest partner on Artemis and they've just allocated 450 kg to the surface for science on the first lander.
The Artemis program inherited SLS and Orion. Neither Bridenstine, nor VP Pence really liked SLS and were even willing to consider alternatives.
Pence was open to getting rid of underperforming contractors and stated so publicly when the Trump Administration rolled out the accelerated lunar return goal of 2024.
Congress creates congressionally-funded, long term programs that keep tens of thousands of voters employed in high paying jobs. ...
Quote from: yg1968 on 10/25/2022 05:50 pmFor the surface habitats, it's important that NASA allow private astronauts to use them. So I hope that the surface habitats are acquired by NASA as a service and that other users are also encouraged to use them.Emphasis mine. The surface habitats need to be commercially owned and operated, and maybe NASA could occasionally rent space in them. But looking long term ... what we actually need is commercially owned and operated mines, smelters and manufacturing and food production facilities - on the moon. Then the people that are working on the moon, whether permanently or in 6-12 month shifts, could make their own stuff for a fraction of the price than we could make it here and then ship it to the moon for people there to use. The goal of lunar bound flights should be to support the people working there as they build a lunar economy to the point where they don't need earth-based HLVs anymore, just personnel and logistical support on commercially owned and operated spacecraft. That's what Artemis should be aiming for, to enable something like that.
For the surface habitats, it's important that NASA allow private astronauts to use them. So I hope that the surface habitats are acquired by NASA as a service and that other users are also encouraged to use them.
Quote from: Proponent on 10/25/2022 12:48 pmI'm finding it difficult to imagine a Republican politician planning a 2024 presidential bid wanting to pick a fight with Sen. Shelby, among others. What is the evidence that Pence was willing to consider alternatives to SLS?yg1968 is generally right. Pence was open to getting rid of underperforming contractors and stated so publicly when the Trump Administration rolled out the accelerated lunar return goal of 2024.
I'm finding it difficult to imagine a Republican politician planning a 2024 presidential bid wanting to pick a fight with Sen. Shelby, among others. What is the evidence that Pence was willing to consider alternatives to SLS?
Yes, Pence did talk about changing contractors. But in context (i.e., during a speech at MSFC in which he fulsomely praised MSFC), that meant replacing Boeing with, e.g., Lockheed Martin to build SLS.
What I was asking for was evidence that Pence opposed SLS.
Quote from: VSECOTSPE on 10/25/2022 01:53 pmQuote from: Proponent on 10/25/2022 12:48 pmI'm finding it difficult to imagine a Republican politician planning a 2024 presidential bid wanting to pick a fight with Sen. Shelby, among others. What is the evidence that Pence was willing to consider alternatives to SLS?yg1968 is generally right. Pence was open to getting rid of underperforming contractors and stated so publicly when the Trump Administration rolled out the accelerated lunar return goal of 2024.Yes, Pence did talk about changing contractors. But in context (i.e., during a speech at MSFC in which he fulsomely praised MSFC), that meant replacing Boeing with, e.g., Lockheed Martin to build SLS. What I was asking for was evidence that Pence opposed SLS.
[...] it is the stated policy of this administration and the United States of America to return American astronauts to the Moon within the next five years. (Applause.) And let me be clear: The first woman and the next man on the Moon will both be American astronauts, launched by American rockets, from American soil. (Applause.)But to accomplish this, we must redouble our efforts here in Huntsville and throughout this program. We must accelerate the SLS program to meet this objective. But know this: The President has directed NASA and Administrator Jim Bridenstine to accomplish this goal by any means necessary.In order to succeed, as the Administrator will discuss today, we must focus on the mission over the means. You must consider every available option and platform to meet our goals, including industry, government, and the entire American space enterprise.Our administration is committed to this goal. And this President, this administration, and the American people are committed to achieving that goal at the Marshall Space Flight Center. (Applause.)But the truth is, we’re committed to Marshall, the incredible history that you have here. But to be clear, we’re not committed to any one contractor. If our current contractors can’t meet this objective, then we’ll find ones that will. If American industry can provide critical commercial services without government development, then we’ll buy them. And if commercial rockets are the only way to get American astronauts to the Moon in the next five years, then commercial rockets it will be.
Quote from: Proponent on 10/26/2022 02:09 pmYes, Pence did talk about changing contractors. But in context (i.e., during a speech at MSFC in which he fulsomely praised MSFC), that meant replacing Boeing with, e.g., Lockheed Martin to build SLS. We don’t know what he meant, and I doubt he did either at the time. All we know is that he said he was willing to replace contractors with respect to the lunar effort. Which programs (Orion and/or EGS, too) and how it would be done (recompetition of elements or functions or something else) or whether it was an empty threat and he was just trying to browbeat the program into better performance are unknown.
Here is some more information about the various platforms surrounding @NASA_SLS and @NASA_Orion in High Bay 3 of the Vehicle Assembly Building at @NASAKennedy. The platforms are being retracted one-by-one as preps for roll out to the pad wrap up.LINK: https://go.nasa.gov/3TPbaae
To be clear, Boeing only has the Core Stage contract.
Quote from: rsnellenberger on 10/25/2022 01:32 pmIt means that the "experiment" of landing a vehicle on the Moon under propulsion followed by a close visual inspection was performed six seven* times during the Apollo era, and there was no evidence at all that lunar regolith did any damage to the lander.The regolith damaged the Apollo 15 Descent Stage engine on landing."At touchdown, the lunar module was located partially inside a small crater with the rim of the crater directly underneath the descent engine skirt. The descent engine skirt buckled during landing."https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/a15mr-7.htm
It means that the "experiment" of landing a vehicle on the Moon under propulsion followed by a close visual inspection was performed six seven* times during the Apollo era, and there was no evidence at all that lunar regolith did any damage to the lander.
Came out of Port Canaveral and heading to the base…what can it be?
For our @NASAArtemis missions, lighting conditions at the Lunar South Pole will be challenging as the sun is constantly at a low angle on the horizon. Here @sarah_shull and I are conducting a simulated lunar spacewalk as part of a joint @NASA @JAXA_jp #DRATS mission.
Parsons: Mobile Launcher 2 is the critical path for the Artemis 4 launch; looking at what we can do to add shifts and accelerate work on it. #VonBraun2022
<snip>QuoteParsons: Mobile Launcher 2 is the critical path for the Artemis 4 launch; looking at what we can do to add shifts and accelerate work on it. #VonBraun2022So years away from the Artemis 4 launch program but already looking at needing more shifts.
QuoteParsons: Mobile Launcher 2 is the critical path for the Artemis 4 launch; looking at what we can do to add shifts and accelerate work on it. #VonBraun2022So years away from the Artemis 4 launch program but already looking at needing more shifts.
Quote from: Proponent on 10/26/2022 02:09 pmYes, Pence did talk about changing contractors. But in context (i.e., during a speech at MSFC in which he fulsomely praised MSFC), that meant replacing Boeing with, e.g., Lockheed Martin to build SLS. We don’t know what he meant, and I doubt he did either at the time.
The full quote makes it clear that VP Pence was thinking of using commercial rockets and commercial services if SLS couldn't meet the 2024 goal. Quote from: VP Pence[...] it is the stated policy of this administration and the United States of America to return American astronauts to the Moon within the next five years. (Applause.) And let me be clear: The first woman and the next man on the Moon will both be American astronauts, launched by American rockets, from American soil. (Applause.)But to accomplish this, we must redouble our efforts here in Huntsville and throughout this program. We must accelerate the SLS program to meet this objective.
[...] it is the stated policy of this administration and the United States of America to return American astronauts to the Moon within the next five years. (Applause.) And let me be clear: The first woman and the next man on the Moon will both be American astronauts, launched by American rockets, from American soil. (Applause.)But to accomplish this, we must redouble our efforts here in Huntsville and throughout this program. We must accelerate the SLS program to meet this objective.
QuoteBut know this: The President has directed NASA and Administrator Jim Bridenstine to accomplish this goal by any means necessary.In order to succeed, as the Administrator will discuss today, we must focus on the mission over the means. You must consider every available option and platform to meet our goals, including industry, government, and the entire American space enterprise.Our administration is committed to this goal. And this President, this administration, and the American people are committed to achieving that goal at the Marshall Space Flight Center. (Applause.)But the truth is, we’re committed to Marshall, the incredible history that you have here. But to be clear, we’re not committed to any one contractor. If our current contractors can’t meet this objective, then we’ll find ones that will. If American industry can provide critical commercial services without government development, then we’ll buy them. And if commercial rockets are the only way to get American astronauts to the Moon in the next five years, then commercial rockets it will be.
But know this: The President has directed NASA and Administrator Jim Bridenstine to accomplish this goal by any means necessary.In order to succeed, as the Administrator will discuss today, we must focus on the mission over the means. You must consider every available option and platform to meet our goals, including industry, government, and the entire American space enterprise.Our administration is committed to this goal. And this President, this administration, and the American people are committed to achieving that goal at the Marshall Space Flight Center. (Applause.)But the truth is, we’re committed to Marshall, the incredible history that you have here. But to be clear, we’re not committed to any one contractor. If our current contractors can’t meet this objective, then we’ll find ones that will. If American industry can provide critical commercial services without government development, then we’ll buy them. And if commercial rockets are the only way to get American astronauts to the Moon in the next five years, then commercial rockets it will be.
Quote from: VSECOTSPE on 10/26/2022 02:44 pmQuote from: Proponent on 10/26/2022 02:09 pmYes, Pence did talk about changing contractors. But in context (i.e., during a speech at MSFC in which he fulsomely praised MSFC), that meant replacing Boeing with, e.g., Lockheed Martin to build SLS. We don’t know what he meant, and I doubt he did either at the time.He said "contractors." MSFC is not a contractor. He warmly praised MSFC during the same speech: if he was thinking of getting MSFC out of the launch-vehicle business, he would have been highly duplicitous. There is no evidence here that VP Pence wanted to cancel SLS.Quote from: yg1968 on 10/26/2022 03:24 pmThe full quote makes it clear that VP Pence was thinking of using commercial rockets and commercial services if SLS couldn't meet the 2024 goal. Quote from: VP Pence[...] it is the stated policy of this administration and the United States of America to return American astronauts to the Moon within the next five years. (Applause.) And let me be clear: The first woman and the next man on the Moon will both be American astronauts, launched by American rockets, from American soil. (Applause.)But to accomplish this, we must redouble our efforts here in Huntsville and throughout this program. We must accelerate the SLS program to meet this objective.[Emphasis added.] Right in front of your eyes and straight from the horse's mouth: we must accelerate the SLS program!QuoteQuoteBut know this: The President has directed NASA and Administrator Jim Bridenstine to accomplish this goal by any means necessary.In order to succeed, as the Administrator will discuss today, we must focus on the mission over the means. You must consider every available option and platform to meet our goals, including industry, government, and the entire American space enterprise.Our administration is committed to this goal. And this President, this administration, and the American people are committed to achieving that goal at the Marshall Space Flight Center. (Applause.)But the truth is, we’re committed to Marshall, the incredible history that you have here. But to be clear, we’re not committed to any one contractor. If our current contractors can’t meet this objective, then we’ll find ones that will. If American industry can provide critical commercial services without government development, then we’ll buy them. And if commercial rockets are the only way to get American astronauts to the Moon in the next five years, then commercial rockets it will be.So at that moment, Pence was open Bridenstine's ideas about using commercial launch vehicles for early Artemis flights. But he very clearly wanted to keep SLS.And we saw how much Pence's support for temporary use of commercial launch vehicles was worth when he left Bridenstine to twist in the wind as Shelby publicly humiliated him in a Senate hearing.
https://twitter.com/bencichy/status/1586011154798747649
