....the whacko SpaceX team will need to deliver HLS Option A in time for Artemis III, starting from the ongoing chaotic development base of Starship, which already has test articles sitting around....
Quote from: DanClemmensen on 09/18/2022 04:55 pm....the whacko SpaceX team will need to deliver HLS Option A in time for Artemis III, starting from the ongoing chaotic development base of Starship, which already has test articles sitting around....What that team really needs is a licence (am I allowed to say that, or is there still danger of being excommunicated) to fly those test articles. This endless delay is absurd.
Um, are you sure that the need to install more shielding to do any additional static fires isn’t just speculation by a certain well-informed (by live video streams) but often over-confident Starbase watcher/commentator?There’s a possibility of a static fire today: <snip to prevent repeating tweets ad nauseum>
Quote from: Robotbeat on 09/19/2022 01:03 pmUm, are you sure that the need to install more shielding to do any additional static fires isn’t just speculation by a certain well-informed (by live video streams) but often over-confident Starbase watcher/commentator?There’s a possibility of a static fire today: <snip to prevent repeating tweets ad nauseum>So were multiple such possibilities in the past week. None of them happened due to continued work to the OLM. Note: those notices go out based on a schedule issued by SpaceX multiple days in advance. And as we have learned in the past several years, those schedules are always overly optimistic.
Quote from: TomH on 09/19/2022 03:17 amQuote from: DanClemmensen on 09/18/2022 04:55 pm....the whacko SpaceX team will need to deliver HLS Option A in time for Artemis III, starting from the ongoing chaotic development base of Starship, which already has test articles sitting around....What that team really needs is a licence (am I allowed to say that, or is there still danger of being excommunicated) to fly those test articles. This endless delay is absurd.They're not ready to fly just yet, though.Pretty clear that static fires have to wait for the shielding to be completed on the Orbital Launch Mount. And they're not going to try to fly until the static fire regime is complete.
23. Q: The HLS-IRD-010 requirement states, "...loaded mass up to 22 metric tons." To clarify, this is additional mass (consumables, logistics, etc.) that may be loaded onto/into the Surface Habitat in a future Cargo mission as the SH remains integrated to HDL?A: Yes, that is correct
[HDL-CP-037] Loaded Mass AccommodationFor Cargo that remains attached to the HDL post landing, the integrated HDL and Cargo shall maintain a stable configuration for a Cargo loaded mass up to 22 metric tons (48501.7 lbm). The HDL is responsible for structurally and mechanically supporting the Cargo + Cargo lander stack for the service life of the Lander. The loaded mass includes any additional mass added to the launched and landed Cargo.
HDL-S-R-0030 Cargo DeliveryThe HDL shall be capable of delivering 12 metric ton (t) (threshold) and 15 t (goal) of cargo to south lunar latitudes between 84° and 90°. The purpose of the HDL is to enable extended surface stays at Artemis Base Camp (ABC). The HDL will be capable of operating in the varying thermal and solar illumination/shadow environments within the required latitudes.
A Q&A was released yesterday. One of the questions relates to HDL (HLS-cargo):Quote from: page 5 of the Q&A#523. Q: The HLS-IRD-010 requirement states, "...loaded mass up to 22 metric tons." To clarify, this is additional mass (consumables, logistics, etc.) that may be loaded onto/into the Surface Habitat in a future Cargo mission as the SH remains integrated to HDL?A: Yes, that is correctThe question relates to this requirement:Quote from: page 13 of The HLS-IRD-010[HDL-CP-037] Loaded Mass AccommodationFor Cargo that remains attached to the HDL post landing, the integrated HDL and Cargo shall maintain a stable configuration for a Cargo loaded mass up to 22 metric tons (48501.7 lbm). The HDL is responsible for structurally and mechanically supporting the Cargo + Cargo lander stack for the service life of the Lander. The loaded mass includes any additional mass added to the launched and landed Cargo.https://sam.gov/opp/f6f52bd9847c46c882ba6b32fcf7367a/viewIncidentally, HDL must be capable of delivering cargo between 12 to 15t:Quote from: page 18 of HLS-RQMT-007HDL-S-R-0030 Cargo DeliveryThe HDL shall be capable of delivering 12 metric ton (t) (threshold) and 15 t (goal) of cargo to south lunar latitudes between 84° and 90°. The purpose of the HDL is to enable extended surface stays at Artemis Base Camp (ABC). The HDL will be capable of operating in the varying thermal and solar illumination/shadow environments within the required latitudes.
NASA has extended the deadline for replying to the HLS Sustaining Lunar Development (aka second Artemis lunar lander) solicitation from Nov. 15 to Dec. 6. That, in turn, pushes back the expected award date to next June. https://sam.gov/opp/e9085924e04f40d8b1b20d9451a28342/view
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1583618988860637184QuoteNASA has extended the deadline for replying to the HLS Sustaining Lunar Development (aka second Artemis lunar lander) solicitation from Nov. 15 to Dec. 6. That, in turn, pushes back the expected award date to next June. https://sam.gov/opp/e9085924e04f40d8b1b20d9451a28342/view
Description of Significant Changes - Amendment 3- Extended the due date for proposals to December 6, 2022- Extended the due date for NASA response on OGFPA and GTA requests to November 15, 2022 to allow further coordination on OGFPAs and GTAs- Updated the anticipated Award Date/ATP to June 6, 2023- Updated the estimated period of performance to reflect June 2023–June 2028.- Added a third asterisk under the CLIN Table shown in Section 1.3.3
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1583618988860637184QuoteNASA has extended the deadline for replying to the HLS Sustaining Lunar Development (aka second Artemis lunar lander) solicitation from Nov. 15 to Dec. 6. That, in turn, pushes back the expected award date to next June.
NASA has extended the deadline for replying to the HLS Sustaining Lunar Development (aka second Artemis lunar lander) solicitation from Nov. 15 to Dec. 6. That, in turn, pushes back the expected award date to next June.
Quote from: FutureSpaceTourist on 10/22/2022 05:53 amhttps://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1583618988860637184QuoteNASA has extended the deadline for replying to the HLS Sustaining Lunar Development (aka second Artemis lunar lander) solicitation from Nov. 15 to Dec. 6. That, in turn, pushes back the expected award date to next June. If I understand the current plan, that's probably the third type of crewed lander, not the second. The first is Starship HLS option A. The second is Starship HLS Option B. I suppose SpaceX could just build its initial HLS to meet the Option B requirements, in which case the Appendix P lander might become the "second" lander type, but I can't see SpaceX freezing the HLS design for that long. The second crewed Starship HLS will be used for Artemis V, and the third crewed landing (another Option B or the Appendix P) will be used for Artemis VI. I've lost track of the current plan, but that must be out beyond 2029 by now?
Quote from: DanClemmensen on 10/22/2022 04:38 pmQuote from: FutureSpaceTourist on 10/22/2022 05:53 amhttps://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1583618988860637184QuoteNASA has extended the deadline for replying to the HLS Sustaining Lunar Development (aka second Artemis lunar lander) solicitation from Nov. 15 to Dec. 6. That, in turn, pushes back the expected award date to next June. If I understand the current plan, that's probably the third type of crewed lander, not the second. The first is Starship HLS option A. The second is Starship HLS Option B. I suppose SpaceX could just build its initial HLS to meet the Option B requirements, in which case the Appendix P lander might become the "second" lander type, but I can't see SpaceX freezing the HLS design for that long. The second crewed Starship HLS will be used for Artemis V, and the third crewed landing (another Option B or the Appendix P) will be used for Artemis VI. I've lost track of the current plan, but that must be out beyond 2029 by now?There is only one crewed Option demo.
See below:Quote from: Timber Micka on 03/23/2022 07:44 pmhttps://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1506732905829056513https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-provides-update-to-astronaut-moon-lander-plans-under-artemisQuoteIn April 2021, NASA selected SpaceX as its partner to land the next American astronauts on the lunar surface. That demonstration mission is targeted for no earlier than April 2025. Exercising an option under the original award, NASA now is asking SpaceX to transform the company’s proposed human landing system into a spacecraft that meets the agency’s requirements for recurring services for a second demonstration mission. Pursuing more development work under the original contract maximizes NASA’s investment and partnership with SpaceX.
https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1506732905829056513https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-provides-update-to-astronaut-moon-lander-plans-under-artemisQuoteIn April 2021, NASA selected SpaceX as its partner to land the next American astronauts on the lunar surface. That demonstration mission is targeted for no earlier than April 2025. Exercising an option under the original award, NASA now is asking SpaceX to transform the company’s proposed human landing system into a spacecraft that meets the agency’s requirements for recurring services for a second demonstration mission. Pursuing more development work under the original contract maximizes NASA’s investment and partnership with SpaceX.
In April 2021, NASA selected SpaceX as its partner to land the next American astronauts on the lunar surface. That demonstration mission is targeted for no earlier than April 2025. Exercising an option under the original award, NASA now is asking SpaceX to transform the company’s proposed human landing system into a spacecraft that meets the agency’s requirements for recurring services for a second demonstration mission. Pursuing more development work under the original contract maximizes NASA’s investment and partnership with SpaceX.
OK, I apparently did not understand the current plan correctly. I read this story NASA press release and some commentary. https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-provides-update-to-astronaut-moon-lander-plans-under-artemisUpon re-reading it, I now interpret the excersize of Option B as not purchasing a second crewed HLS landing from SpaceX. Instead, it upgrades the Artemis III HLS to meet the requirements for the "sustaining" lander, which are the same as the Appendix P landers. Is this correct?
And here it the post the apparently confused me into thinking that an Option B extension would buy a second crewed mission:Quote from: yg1968 on 03/23/2022 09:16 pmSee below:Quote from: Timber Micka on 03/23/2022 07:44 pmhttps://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1506732905829056513https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-provides-update-to-astronaut-moon-lander-plans-under-artemisQuoteIn April 2021, NASA selected SpaceX as its partner to land the next American astronauts on the lunar surface. That demonstration mission is targeted for no earlier than April 2025. Exercising an option under the original award, NASA now is asking SpaceX to transform the company’s proposed human landing system into a spacecraft that meets the agency’s requirements for recurring services for a second demonstration mission. Pursuing more development work under the original contract maximizes NASA’s investment and partnership with SpaceX.
The Option A HLS has a crewed demo for a version that doesn't need to be sustainable. Option B has a second crewed HLS demo but for a sustainable version.
Quote from: yg1968 on 10/22/2022 06:16 pmThe Option A HLS has a crewed demo for a version that doesn't need to be sustainable. Option B has a second crewed HLS demo but for a sustainable version.OK that was my original understanding and it was what I thought you were contradicting. So we are now in agreement. Can we stretch from this to an assumption that the second crewed lander (i.e., the Option B lander) will be the Artemis V lander? I think so. From there we get Artemis VI as the first possible crewed landing for the Appendix P lander. When do you think Artemis VI will occur?
