Author Topic: Polaris Program (Dragon and Starship crewed missions led by Isaacman)  (Read 86715 times)

Offline chopsticks

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I'm not sure where to post this, but I was thinking about the potential Hubble reboost mission that Polaris might do. Since Dragon will almost certainly have to dock to Hubble from the trunk side, is there any reason that the same design couldn't be used to boost the ISS? That way the thrusters are pointing away.

Offline Hamish.Student

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I'm not sure where to post this, but I was thinking about the potential Hubble reboost mission that Polaris might do. Since Dragon will almost certainly have to dock to Hubble from the trunk side, is there any reason that the same design couldn't be used to boost the ISS? That way the thrusters are pointing away.
 
 
Wouldnt surprise me to see another study be announced after a successful hubble reboost. Both for ISS and new commercial  stations. Just another add-on service, like the cupola or an EVA. 
 
"Welcome to SpaceX, what would you like?" "Hi, uhhh, Can I get a number 3 add on an EVA. Hold the reboost. Id like fries with that too"

Offline DanClemmensen

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I'm not sure where to post this, but I was thinking about the potential Hubble reboost mission that Polaris might do. Since Dragon will almost certainly have to dock to Hubble from the trunk side, is there any reason that the same design couldn't be used to boost the ISS? That way the thrusters are pointing away.
Same concept, different design. The design is mostly about the details of the docking interface, and I think the interface on Hubble will be different than whatever ISS port the reboost will use. In earlier discussions, I think Jim said that Cygnus was a better choice because Cygnus uses the berthing port, which is better situated for reboost than the docking ports. Cygnus has demonstrated an ISS reboost.

Offline Zed_Noir

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I'm not sure where to post this, but I was thinking about the potential Hubble reboost mission that Polaris might do. Since Dragon will almost certainly have to dock to Hubble from the trunk side, is there any reason that the same design couldn't be used to boost the ISS? That way the thrusters are pointing away.
Same concept, different design. The design is mostly about the details of the docking interface, and I think the interface on Hubble will be different than whatever ISS port the reboost will use. In earlier discussions, I think Jim said that Cygnus was a better choice because Cygnus uses the berthing port, which is better situated for reboost than the docking ports. Cygnus has demonstrated an ISS reboost.
Ahem. There shouldn't be any issues with putting a common berthing mechanism port in the trunk of the Dragon. Think SpaceX still have the tooling to build CBM components in storage somewhere.

Offline DanClemmensen

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I'm not sure where to post this, but I was thinking about the potential Hubble reboost mission that Polaris might do. Since Dragon will almost certainly have to dock to Hubble from the trunk side, is there any reason that the same design couldn't be used to boost the ISS? That way the thrusters are pointing away.
Same concept, different design. The design is mostly about the details of the docking interface, and I think the interface on Hubble will be different than whatever ISS port the reboost will use. In earlier discussions, I think Jim said that Cygnus was a better choice because Cygnus uses the berthing port, which is better situated for reboost than the docking ports. Cygnus has demonstrated an ISS reboost.
Ahem. There shouldn't be any issues with putting a common berthing mechanism port in the trunk of the Dragon. Think SpaceX still have the tooling to build CBM components in storage somewhere.
I didn't say it was hard, I said it is different. You cannot use the identical design to boost Hubble and boost ISS. I'm not competent to identify the differences or gauge the difficulty.

Offline sevenperforce

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I'm not sure where to post this, but I was thinking about the potential Hubble reboost mission that Polaris might do. Since Dragon will almost certainly have to dock to Hubble from the trunk side, is there any reason that the same design couldn't be used to boost the ISS? That way the thrusters are pointing away.
Same concept, different design. The design is mostly about the details of the docking interface, and I think the interface on Hubble will be different than whatever ISS port the reboost will use. In earlier discussions, I think Jim said that Cygnus was a better choice because Cygnus uses the berthing port, which is better situated for reboost than the docking ports. Cygnus has demonstrated an ISS reboost.
Ahem. There shouldn't be any issues with putting a common berthing mechanism port in the trunk of the Dragon. Think SpaceX still have the tooling to build CBM components in storage somewhere.
I didn't say it was hard, I said it is different. You cannot use the identical design to boost Hubble and boost ISS. I'm not competent to identify the differences or gauge the difficulty.
One consideration is that ISS is around 40 times more massive than Hubble, and so even if Dragon burned almost all its propellant it could only boost ISS a little.

Then again, ISS gets reboosted quite often and thus only needs short bursts, while Hubble needs a much more substantial orbit-raise.

Offline DanClemmensen

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I'm not sure where to post this, but I was thinking about the potential Hubble reboost mission that Polaris might do. Since Dragon will almost certainly have to dock to Hubble from the trunk side, is there any reason that the same design couldn't be used to boost the ISS? That way the thrusters are pointing away.
Same concept, different design. The design is mostly about the details of the docking interface, and I think the interface on Hubble will be different than whatever ISS port the reboost will use. In earlier discussions, I think Jim said that Cygnus was a better choice because Cygnus uses the berthing port, which is better situated for reboost than the docking ports. Cygnus has demonstrated an ISS reboost.
Ahem. There shouldn't be any issues with putting a common berthing mechanism port in the trunk of the Dragon. Think SpaceX still have the tooling to build CBM components in storage somewhere.
I didn't say it was hard, I said it is different. You cannot use the identical design to boost Hubble and boost ISS. I'm not competent to identify the differences or gauge the difficulty.
One consideration is that ISS is around 40 times more massive than Hubble, and so even if Dragon burned almost all its propellant it could only boost ISS a little.

Then again, ISS gets reboosted quite often and thus only needs short bursts, while Hubble needs a much more substantial orbit-raise.
The largest difference by far is that an ISS boost does not require a crewed spacecraft, because ISS has ports that are designed to handle uncrewed craft. An uncrewed craft can carry a lot more fuel, and you can use an expendable craft like Cygnus or Progress. Basically, it's an entirely different problem.

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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twitter.com/wehavemeco/status/1584884065433419780

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🎙️ Today on the podcast: a conversation with @rookisaacman about the why and how behind the @PolarisProgram, the bigger picture of what they’re trying to accomplish, how they collaborate with @SpaceX, and I even pester him about flying to polar orbit.

https://twitter.com/rookisaacman/status/1584900661988032512

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Thanks for having me - I enjoyed the conversation. I am  looking forward to your interview with @Gillis_SarahE @annawmenon and @KiddPoteet.

https://mainenginecutoff.com/podcast/233

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Jared Isaacman of the Polaris Program joins me to talk about how the program began, how it’s envisioned, how they choose what to take on and solve, how they interact with SpaceX, and why he’s chosen to contribute to spaceflight in this way.
« Last Edit: 10/25/2022 01:33 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Jared mentions possibility of outside (non-SpaceX) crew on second Polaris mission. I interpreted that as maybe having NASA astronaut(s) if it’s a Hubble mission.

He also said there are two different ideas for the 2nd mission (neither of which are polar orbits), but didn’t say what the other (non-Hubble) idea is.

Offline FishInferno

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Jared mentions possibility of outside (non-SpaceX) crew on second Polaris mission. I interpreted that as maybe having NASA astronaut(s) if it’s a Hubble mission.

He also said there are two different ideas for the 2nd mission (neither of which are polar orbits), but didn’t say what the other (non-Hubble) idea is.

I believe he previously hinted that Polaris 2 would launch on Dragon 2 and dock with an orbiting Starship. Something about "minimizing all possible unknowns for the first Starship flight." That could be the second idea.
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Offline deadman1204

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Jared mentions possibility of outside (non-SpaceX) crew on second Polaris mission. I interpreted that as maybe having NASA astronaut(s) if it’s a Hubble mission.

He also said there are two different ideas for the 2nd mission (neither of which are polar orbits), but didn’t say what the other (non-Hubble) idea is.

I believe he previously hinted that Polaris 2 would launch on Dragon 2 and dock with an orbiting Starship. Something about "minimizing all possible unknowns for the first Starship flight." That could be the second idea.
Kinda sounds like they haven't fully decided what Polaris 2 will be doing yet.

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Kinda sounds like they haven't fully decided what Polaris 2 will be doing yet.

Have to wait for the results of the Hubble mission study with NASA first!

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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https://twitter.com/polarisprogram/status/1585225401085095936

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We’re excited to provide Starlink to over 100 schools in Chile and Brazil, and the Polaris Dawn crew recently talked to children at the first school in Chile to be connected as part of this effort! →

https://polarisprogram.com/polaris-program-provides-starlink-connectivity-to-schools-in-chile-and-brazil/

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OCTOBER 26, 2022
Polaris Program Provides Starlink Connectivity to Schools in Chile and Brazil
The donation will provide internet connectivity for over 100 schools

LOS ANGELES, October 26, 2022 – The Polaris Program announced today a donation of $500,000 to connect over 100 schools in Chile and Brazil with Starlink. Increasing internet connectivity to communities around the world is one of the core tenets of Polaris Dawn, the first of the Polaris Program’s three human spaceflight missions. SpaceX is working with nonprofit organizations – Enseña Chile in Chile and MegaEdu in Brazil – to identify schools in each country in need of great internet and to implement Starlink. Starlinks are being delivered to schools in Chile throughout October, followed by Brazil in November.

Powered by a constellation of satellites in low-Earth orbit, SpaceX’s Starlink provides high-speed, low-latency broadband internet to locations where access has been unreliable, expensive, or completely unavailable. The service is currently available in over 40 countries around the world, connecting communities that previously had inadequate or no connectivity. High-bandwidth connectivity enables access to essential online services and resources for rural communities.
“Access to information is foundational to solving many of the world’s problems.  Starlink connectivity is an example of how progress in space benefits those on Earth,” said Mission Commander Jared Isaacman.

“Rural schools in Brazil must have reliable high-speed internet to provide their students equitable opportunities, and a satellite-powered solution is essential to reach these schools,” said MegaEdu CEO Cristieni Castilhos. “This donation will allow underserved Brazilian schools to use Starlink’s innovative technology, bettering the education of students.”

Jared and the Polaris Dawn crew – Mission Pilot Kidd Poteet, Mission Specialist Sarah Gillis, and Mission Specialist/Medical Officer Anna Menon – talked via Starlink to children at the San Miguel de Quintrilpe school, located in La Araucanía region in Chile. The entire school of 80 students and teachers participated in the event, asking the crew questions about their training, what to expect when in orbit, and what the crew hopes to achieve with the Polaris Dawn mission. The school is the first to be connected as part of this effort.

“The donation from Polaris will connect more than 50 schools in Chile to quality internet, contributing to the development of more than 7,500 students and more than 700 teachers. This technological tool, complemented by an educational component of teacher training, allows us to continue improving educational quality and bringing opportunities to children,” said Tomás Recart, executive director of Enseña Chile.

SpaceX is targeting no earlier than March 2023 for Falcon 9’s launch of the Polaris Dawn mission from Launch Complex 39A at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida. Over the course of five days, Dragon and the Polaris Dawn crew will endeavor to travel to 1,400 km (the highest Earth orbit ever flown), attempt the first-ever commercial spacewalk, and test Starlink’s laser-based communications in space.
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Offline deadman1204

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Kinda sounds like they haven't fully decided what Polaris 2 will be doing yet.

Have to wait for the results of the Hubble mission study with NASA first!
hmmm.... won't this preclude the 2nd mission? The study won't be done for 6ish months. Then they'd have to design the docking hardware and such, which could take a a couple years. Does that put it beyond the timeline?

Offline whitelancer64

Kinda sounds like they haven't fully decided what Polaris 2 will be doing yet.

Have to wait for the results of the Hubble mission study with NASA first!
hmmm.... won't this preclude the 2nd mission? The study won't be done for 6ish months. Then they'd have to design the docking hardware and such, which could take a a couple years. Does that put it beyond the timeline?

Polaris Dawn won't launch for another ~5 ish months, so a 6 month study isn't going to preclude a second mission.

If they need to design some special hardware that could take a while, but there's always the possibility of adding on another Polaris mission if Jared wants to go ahead with docking with Starship for Polaris 2 instead of going to Hubble. If NASA decides to put on Drew Feustel (or someone else) on the flight so they can do the EVA work on Hubble, that means that NASA will be paying for some of the mission and it won't cost Jared so much.
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Online FutureSpaceTourist

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https://twitter.com/rookisaacman/status/1603526616210194434

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Busy week..
- Shift4 getting organized for 2023. Lots of @skytabpos to get installed!
- More time in EVA suits & training.. loved seeing my crew in suits
- Reunited with🐉Resilience
- Good progress on future🔭
So lucky to work w/ amazing team at SpaceX, Polaris, St. Jude & Shift4

Reference to Hubble mission study?

Offline Robotbeat

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Could be. There was a hint of possibly building a new telescope based on Starship, so it could be that.

I expect it’s about Hubble, tho.
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Online DigitalMan

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If you interpret it as "good progress on future telescope MISSION", certainly hubble.

I remember reading various tidbits about a telescope in the works, but I didn't expect a connection to the Polaris missions. If this is what it is, perhaps it will fly on Polaris 2 or 3?

Offline deadman1204

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Could be. There was a hint of possibly building a new telescope based on Starship, so it could be that.

I expect it’s about Hubble, tho.
spaceX doesn't have ANY of the expertise to build a telescope or the instruments to go with it. It just wound't make sense for them to hire all those people and build all those facilities.

Offline Zed_Noir

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Could be. There was a hint of possibly building a new telescope based on Starship, so it could be that.

I expect it’s about Hubble, tho.
spaceX doesn't have ANY of the expertise to build a telescope or the instruments to go with it. It just wound't make sense for them to hire all those people and build all those facilities.
Newcomers to a different technology have to start from somewhere. SpaceX didn't have any expertise in commercial satellite communication before Starlink after all.

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