Dynetics lunar lander

[TrevorMonty]

Amazon launch contract with ULA should help lower Vulcan's price due to increase production rate and ULA proceeding with SMART.

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

[AstroWare]

Amazon launch contract with ULA should help lower Vulcan's price due to increase production rate and ULA proceeding with SMART.

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

Also, the infrastructure investments mean ULA can better meet high tempo launch cadence needed for refueling...

Sent from my Pixel 5a using Tapatalk

[deadman1204]

Amazon launch contract with ULA should help lower Vulcan's price due to increase production rate and ULA proceeding with SMART.

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

Why would Vulcan lower its price? Just because its margin is increasing doesn't mean it needs to give that money away. With amazon and defense contracts, its not like they are hurting for people to buy launches.

[TrevorMonty]

Amazon launch contract with ULA should help lower Vulcan's price due to increase production rate and ULA proceeding with SMART.

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

Why would Vulcan lower its price? Just because its margin is increasing doesn't mean it needs to give that money away. With amazon and defense contracts, its not like they are hurting for people to buy launches.

All launches are cost competitive especially commercial lunar missions.

Sent from my SM-T733 using Tapatalk

[spacenuance]

Dynetics presentation from the Human to Mars Summit. 

[Robotbeat]

Amazon launch contract with ULA should help lower Vulcan's price due to increase production rate and ULA proceeding with SMART.

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

Why would Vulcan lower its price? Just because its margin is increasing doesn't mean it needs to give that money away. With amazon and defense contracts, its not like they are hurting for people to buy launches.

All launches are cost competitive especially commercial lunar missions.

Sent from my SM-T733 using Tapatalk

Yeah, I sort of doubt that.

Maybe if SpaceX charges a lot for Starship launches (which they might, without competition), perhaps, but Vulcan costs way more per kg IMLEO (or refueled to TLI) than Starship.

Like a factor of 10. Maybe ultimately a factor of 100. It’s just another entire world, here.

[DanClemmensen]

Yeah, I sort of doubt that.

Maybe if SpaceX charges a lot for Starship launches (which they might, without competition), perhaps, but Vulcan costs way more per kg IMLEO (or refueled to TLI) than Starship.

Like a factor of 10. Maybe ultimately a factor of 100. It’s just another entire world, here.

Price/kg is one metric, and as you say Starship (if successful) will be overwhelmingly cheaper. But a more interesting metric is absolute cost of a launch. Even if you are sending only a single 100 kg satellite on a dedicated non-rideshare mission, Starship may be the cheapest launcher. We won't know until they become operational, and oh by the way the cost of methane is an issue, but If they get to a once-a-day cadence, then economies of scale at the system level will be very hard for others to beat. We'll see.

[Robotbeat]

Vulcan can’t even compete with Falcon (9 or Heavy) on launch costs. It’s like 2 generations behind.

The issue is, of course, that having a non-SpaceX launcher is desirable for some folk, and the existence of Vulcan will give customers better bargaining power for Falcon 9 and Starship.

[Gliderflyer]

Small lander update at IAC:

https://twitter.com/ac_charania/status/1572895012282662918

https://twitter.com/ac_charania/status/1572895022265282560

Some perspective corrected pictures attached

[Gliderflyer]

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1586034020839673856

[FutureSpaceTourist]

Anyone fancy a game of spot the difference 

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/leidos-dynetics-team-and-northrop-grumman-to-collaborate-on-nasa-human-landing-system-bid-301697017.html

Leidos Dynetics Team and Northrop Grumman to Collaborate on NASA Human Landing System Bid
NEWS PROVIDED BY
Leidos

Dec 07, 2022, 08:00 ET
HUNTSVILLE, Ala., Dec. 7, 2022 /PRNewswire/ -- Dynetics, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Leidos, today announced it has submitted a bid on the Human Landing System (HLS) Sustaining Lunar Development (SLD) contract for NASA's Artemis Mission. Northrop Grumman will join the Dynetics team in this pursuit.

"We're excited to enter the competition to support NASA's Sustaining Lunar Development efforts, adding Northrop Grumman to our team," said Leidos Dynetics Group President Steve Cook. "As the only company to successfully build a crewed lunar lander, Northrop Grumman will be an excellent partner as we support NASA's inspiring efforts to return humans to the lunar surface. We will leverage their expertise and legacy of human space exploration, including their ongoing contracts to build the Habitation and Logistics Outpost for NASA's lunar Gateway and to provide commercial resupply services to the International Space Station, significantly bolstering our pursuit. We're pleased they have joined us in this historic effort."

For more than three years, the Dynetics team has been a prime contractor for HLS. It was one of 11 companies selected in 2019 under the Next Space Technologies for Exploration Partnership (NextSTEP-2) Appendix E contract. The Leidos subsidiary was then selected under NextSTEP-2 Appendix H in 2020, alongside SpaceX and Blue Origin.

In September 2021, Dynetics was one of five companies selected under Appendix N, which allows industry partners to collaborate with NASA to mature lander designs and conduct risk reduction activities in support of sustainable lander development. The recent SLD solicitation – also known as NextSTEP-2 Appendix P – was released on September 16, 2022.

Northrop Grumman has also been a primary supporter of HLS, winning prime contracts under Appendices E and N.

"Our capabilities and experience in pioneering human exploration and space logistics will help provide a lunar transportation system that our nation can rely on for years to come," said Steve Krein, Vice President, Civil and Commercial Space, Northrop Grumman.

"NASA is counting on industry to lead the development of returning astronauts to the moon," Cook said. "We believe our partnership with Northrop Grumman makes us more than ready for the challenge. We look forward to the hard work ahead."

Certain statements in this announcement constitute "forward-looking statements" within the meaning of the rules and regulations of the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC). These statements are based on management's current beliefs and expectations and are subject to significant risks and uncertainties. These statements are not guarantees of future results or occurrences. A number of factors could cause our actual results, performance, achievements, or industry results to be different from the results, performance, or achievements expressed or implied by such forward-looking statements. These factors include, but are not limited to, the "Risk Factors" set forth in Leidos' Annual Report on Form 10-K for the fiscal year ended December 31, 2021, and other such filings that Leidos makes with the SEC from time to time.  Readers are cautioned not to place undue reliance on such forward-looking statements, which speak only as of the date hereof. Leidos does not undertake to update forward-looking statements to reflect the impact of circumstances or events that arise after the date the forward-looking statements were made.

Image caption:

Human Landing System rendering provided by the Leidos Dynetics team.
(PRNewsfoto/Dynetics)

Edit to add: 2nd image attached is just cropped version of 1st image. 3rd image attached is from Dynetics over a year ago.

[yg1968]

Anyone fancy a game of spot the difference 

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/leidos-dynetics-team-and-northrop-grumman-to-collaborate-on-nasa-human-landing-system-bid-301697017.html

Leidos Dynetics Team and Northrop Grumman to Collaborate on NASA Human Landing System Bid
NEWS PROVIDED BY
Leidos

Dec 07, 2022, 08:00 ET
HUNTSVILLE, Ala., Dec. 7, 2022 /PRNewswire/ -- Dynetics, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Leidos, today announced it has submitted a bid on the Human Landing System (HLS) Sustaining Lunar Development (SLD) contract for NASA's Artemis Mission. Northrop Grumman will join the Dynetics team in this pursuit.

"We're excited to enter the competition to support NASA's Sustaining Lunar Development efforts, adding Northrop Grumman to our team," said Leidos Dynetics Group President Steve Cook. "As the only company to successfully build a crewed lunar lander, Northrop Grumman will be an excellent partner as we support NASA's inspiring efforts to return humans to the lunar surface. We will leverage their expertise and legacy of human space exploration, including their ongoing contracts to build the Habitation and Logistics Outpost for NASA's lunar Gateway and to provide commercial resupply services to the International Space Station, significantly bolstering our pursuit. We're pleased they have joined us in this historic effort."

For more than three years, the Dynetics team has been a prime contractor for HLS. It was one of 11 companies selected in 2019 under the Next Space Technologies for Exploration Partnership (NextSTEP-2) Appendix E contract. The Leidos subsidiary was then selected under NextSTEP-2 Appendix H in 2020, alongside SpaceX and Blue Origin.

In September 2021, Dynetics was one of five companies selected under Appendix N, which allows industry partners to collaborate with NASA to mature lander designs and conduct risk reduction activities in support of sustainable lander development. The recent SLD solicitation – also known as NextSTEP-2 Appendix P – was released on September 16, 2022.

Northrop Grumman has also been a primary supporter of HLS, winning prime contracts under Appendices E and N.

"Our capabilities and experience in pioneering human exploration and space logistics will help provide a lunar transportation system that our nation can rely on for years to come," said Steve Krein, Vice President, Civil and Commercial Space, Northrop Grumman.

"NASA is counting on industry to lead the development of returning astronauts to the moon," Cook said. "We believe our partnership with Northrop Grumman makes us more than ready for the challenge. We look forward to the hard work ahead."

Certain statements in this announcement constitute "forward-looking statements" within the meaning of the rules and regulations of the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC). These statements are based on management's current beliefs and expectations and are subject to significant risks and uncertainties. These statements are not guarantees of future results or occurrences. A number of factors could cause our actual results, performance, achievements, or industry results to be different from the results, performance, or achievements expressed or implied by such forward-looking statements. These factors include, but are not limited to, the "Risk Factors" set forth in Leidos' Annual Report on Form 10-K for the fiscal year ended December 31, 2021, and other such filings that Leidos makes with the SEC from time to time.  Readers are cautioned not to place undue reliance on such forward-looking statements, which speak only as of the date hereof. Leidos does not undertake to update forward-looking statements to reflect the impact of circumstances or events that arise after the date the forward-looking statements were made.

Image caption:

Human Landing System rendering provided by the Leidos Dynetics team.
(PRNewsfoto/Dynetics)

Edit to add: 2nd image attached is just cropped version of 1st image. 3rd image attached is from Dynetics over a year ago.

You can't see it on the image but Sierra Space seems to be out.

[yg1968]

We are partnering with @Dynetics, part of @LeidosInc, to develop a streamlined, low-risk and affordable Human Landing System for @NASAArtemis. Together, we're #DefiningPossible on the Moon.

https://twitter.com/northropgrumman/status/1600501641551175682

[TrevorMonty]

Sierra Space have partnered with Blue on the LEO Orbital Reef station so makes sense they go with National Team.

Dynetics lander is dependant on in space refuelling. This area where NG robotic servicing expertise will be critical they may also provide tanker. Were working on long life hydrolox transfer stage for first National Team  so its not like they are starting from scratch.

Would still pick ULA as their main launch provider initially but wouldn't be surprised if they are keeping their options open. There is  SpaceX SS, FH,  Relativity Terran R  and maybe Firefly Beta/Antares Version 3.

[Kaputnik]

When can we expect more detail from Dynetics/NG?

[VSECOTSPE]

“We're excited to enter the competition to support NASA's Sustaining Lunar Development efforts, adding Northrop Grumman to our team," said Leidos Dynetics Group President Steve Cook.

Folks should know that this is the same Steve Cook:

Veteran NASA engineer and manager Steve Cook is leaving Marshall Space Flight Center to take a job with local aerospace contractor Dynetics. Cook is the manager of the Ares rocket program...

"It is with the backdrop of these accomplishments that I am writing to tell you that after long and prayerful consideration, I have decided to depart NASA after 19 years of service," Cook wrote in a memo yesterday...

https://www.al.com/space-news/2009/08/nasa_ares_rocket_managers_stev.html

As director of the Ares Program Office since its inception in 2005, Cook oversees Marshall’s development of the Ares 1 crew launch vehicle and the Ares 5 heavy-lift rocket central to NASA’s five-year-old plan for sending astronauts to the Moon by 2020.

https://spacenews.com/ares-rocket-boss-exits-nasa-private-sector/

Adjust your bets on Dynetics’ Appendix P bid accordingly.

[TrevorMonty]

“We're excited to enter the competition to support NASA's Sustaining Lunar Development efforts, adding Northrop Grumman to our team," said Leidos Dynetics Group President Steve Cook.

Folks should know that this is the same Steve Cook:

Veteran NASA engineer and manager Steve Cook is leaving Marshall Space Flight Center to take a job with local aerospace contractor Dynetics. Cook is the manager of the Ares rocket program...

"It is with the backdrop of these accomplishments that I am writing to tell you that after long and prayerful consideration, I have decided to depart NASA after 19 years of service," Cook wrote in a memo yesterday...

https://www.al.com/space-news/2009/08/nasa_ares_rocket_managers_stev.html

As director of the Ares Program Office since its inception in 2005, Cook oversees Marshall’s development of the Ares 1 crew launch vehicle and the Ares 5 heavy-lift rocket central to NASA’s five-year-old plan for sending astronauts to the Moon by 2020.

https://spacenews.com/ares-rocket-boss-exits-nasa-private-sector/

Adjust your bets on Dynetics’ Appendix P bid accordingly.

From what I read on Wiki Ares wasn't failure. The test launch was successful and they seem to have means to deal with vibration issues. Seems like he ran successful program given what he had to work with. I don't think he had much say in choice of using solid rocket as booster

[VSECOTSPE]

From what I read on Wiki Ares wasn't failure. The test launch was successful and they seem to have means to deal with vibration issues.

Ares I-X wasn’t a test of Ares I.  4- versus 5-segment SRB.  Unpowered dummy upper stage versus J-2X upper stage.  Etc.  It couldn’t test the vibration environment except through iffy extrapolation and was a proof of concept, at best.  Moreover, it showed that the team didn’t know how to leave the pad, how to do the stage separation, and how to recover the first stage, forget the stuff they actually needed to prove to get Ares I to the finish line.

Seems like he ran successful program given what he had to work with. I don't think he had much say in choice of using solid rocket as booster

Cook was on the ESAS team that recommended Ares I.  He was handpicked by Griffin and is as responsible for the poor formulation of Ares I as for mismanaging its development.

I don’t mean to pick on him, but folks should know that Cook was also deputy program manager on X-33, another MSFC launch development fiasco.  I’ve known him since those days, and he’s a PowerPoint engineer, not a proven propulsion or space systems expert.  Hopefully he’s being kept at arms-length from the Dynetics Appendix P bid.  But probably not since he’s President of that Leidos division, and I would temper my expectations for the technical success of the Dynetics bid accordingly.

I’m no fan of what we’re seeing so far from National Team on Appendix P either.  But seeing Cook closely associated with the Dynetics bid doesn’t fill me with confidence, either.

[yg1968]

Dynetics completes critical hardware demonstrations for sustainable human landing system:
https://www.leidos.com/insights/dynetics-completes-critical-hardware-demonstrations-sustainable-human-landing-system

https://twitter.com/Dynetics/status/1630946120896503808

[Hug]

After developing a dual regen chamber (meaning the chamber is cooled using both propellants)

If they're doing cooling with both propellants that probably indicates that it's a dual expander cycle. Lunar landers are probably the best application of expanders, so that's not too big of a surprise.