Author Topic: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan  (Read 1152679 times)

Offline trimeta

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2320 on: 11/19/2022 03:15 am »
Boom!!!

https://twitter.com/blueorigin/status/1593802561139654656
I mean...Blue Origin competed for the first round of NSSL, too. I think all of us expected they'd try again for the next round. This isn't like the Commercial Crew Development program, where they lost during one of the early rounds and then seemed to abandon all efforts to develop the corresponding vehicle: Blue Origin hasn't given up on New Glenn. So of course they're going to submit it for future contracts.

Now, if you can find an article about Northrop Grumman submitting a proposal for OmegA during the next NSSL phase, that would be a "Boom!!!", since that's far more analogous to what Blue Origin did for Commercial Crew.

Offline DanClemmensen

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2321 on: 11/19/2022 03:33 am »
The Orion CM (i.e., capsule) does not sit exposed. It is hidden inside the LAS, which acts as a fairing and which is jettisoned like a fairing.

Yes, most(?) crewed spacecraft sit "naked" atop the LV. I was just pointing out that this is not universal.
I stand corrected, never noticed LAS fairing which encloses capsule. NB this fairing and capsule stay attach during abort, then separate after abort engines have burnt out.
And of course we all hope to never see it happen. Instead, we hope all flights jettison the LAS after the SRBs separate and it is no longer useful as an aerodynamic fairing, just as it did during Artemis 1. Apparently this is well after it is no longer useful as an abort system.

Online meekGee

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2322 on: 11/19/2022 01:24 pm »
Boom!!!

https://twitter.com/blueorigin/status/1593802561139654656
What Boom?

It's not like they achieved anything - they merely applied to be certified... You didn't really expect them not to, did you?

Enthusiasm is good, but you need to stay grounded a bit. NG has a very long road ahead of it.

I'm guessing they're taking the route of increased DoD scrutiny/insight during development (if that's even applicable here)

If that's the case, it won't speed up development.
« Last Edit: 11/19/2022 01:29 pm by meekGee »
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Offline edzieba

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2323 on: 11/21/2022 04:58 pm »
Yes, most(?) crewed spacecraft sit "naked" atop the LV. I was just pointing out that this is not universal.
Out of curiosity (and counting only launches with crew on-board):

Crewed orbital vehicles that do/did not launch enclosed within a fairing:
Mercury - 4 orbital launches
Gemini (no capsule abort, ejection seat only) - 10 orbital launches
STS Orbiter - 140 orbital launches (including STS-51-L)
Dragon 2 - 8 orbital launches
Total unfaired: 162

Crewed orbital vehicles that launch(ed) enclosed within a fairing with abort capability:
Apollo - 15 orbital launches
Vostok - 6
Voskhod - 2
Soyuz - 149 (including T-10a which used that faired abort system, and 18a & MS-10 which aborted later)
Shenzhou - 9

Total faired: 181


Surprisingly close, but faired crew abort systems just about edge the win. For capsules, faired abort systems dominate by a wide margin though.

Offline deadman1204

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2324 on: 11/21/2022 06:26 pm »
Yes, most(?) crewed spacecraft sit "naked" atop the LV. I was just pointing out that this is not universal.
Out of curiosity (and counting only launches with crew on-board):

Crewed orbital vehicles that do/did not launch enclosed within a fairing:
Mercury - 4 orbital launches
Gemini (no capsule abort, ejection seat only) - 10 orbital launches
STS Orbiter - 140 orbital launches (including STS-51-L)
Dragon 2 - 8 orbital launches
Total unfaired: 162

Crewed orbital vehicles that launch(ed) enclosed within a fairing with abort capability:
Apollo - 15 orbital launches
Vostok - 6
Voskhod - 2
Soyuz - 149 (including T-10a which used that faired abort system, and 18a & MS-10 which aborted later)
Shenzhou - 9

Total faired: 181


Surprisingly close, but faired crew abort systems just about edge the win. For capsules, faired abort systems dominate by a wide margin though.
While its true that a launch system CAN have a fairing, that only works if the fairing is specifically designed as part of the system (for fast removal in atmosphere). A standard fairing ala Vulcan or NG would not be viable, because it isn't designed for a fast removal ala launch escape. It simply cannot get removed fast enough (while garunteeing it doesn't break and impact/damage the craft), because its not designed to.

So for the case of a crewed dreamchaser, it couldn't use a standard fairing for whatever rocket. The fairing would need to be designed to allow for a launch abort system - which is basically a brand new fairing from the ground up.
« Last Edit: 11/21/2022 06:27 pm by deadman1204 »

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2325 on: 12/05/2022 03:39 pm »
https://twitter.com/tgmetsfan98/status/1599800053916659712

Quote
Blue Origin appears to be conducting New Glenn fairing testing at the KSC turn basin today!

nsf.live/spacecoast

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2326 on: 12/05/2022 05:05 pm »
https://twitter.com/spaceoffshore/status/1599826755845603341

Quote
Huge!

https://twitter.com/nextspaceflight/status/1599827071060283392

Quote
Blue Origin is wrapping up taking a New Glenn payload fairing halve for a swim at the KSC turn basin this morning. It appears that Blue plans to recover the fairing halves from the water similar to SpaceX.

nsf.live/spacecoast
« Last Edit: 12/05/2022 05:07 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline Comga

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2327 on: 12/05/2022 08:13 pm »
Quote
Huge!

https://twitter.com/nextspaceflight/status/1599827071060283392

Quote
Blue Origin is wrapping up taking a New Glenn payload fairing halve for a swim at the KSC turn basin this morning. It appears that Blue plans to recover the fairing halves from the water similar to SpaceX.

nsf.live/spacecoast

But the New Glenn fairing is missing one part of the Falcon fairing "magic sauce" for ocean surface recovery.
The Falcon fairing has a larger diameter than the second stage.
That means that the back end, where it attaches to the second stage, necks down.
This gives each fairing half the shape of a boat.
The New Glenn fairing is the same diameter as the rocket.
That leaves the back end open.
It is shown this way in Blue's drawings of the fairing in flight, where there are graphic cut-outs to see the payload.
That makes this fairing unsuitable for floating, unless they add something.
Perhaps an inflatable transom?
Maybe just a truncated half cone around the payload adapter.
Notice that the posted photos do not show the back end of the fairing being lifted by the crane.

It is still incomprehensible that anyone would lable this "Huge!"
Blue has a long, long way to go, and even "following" by copying SpaceX will have daunting challenges.
« Last Edit: 12/06/2022 05:04 am by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Do you think the fairing would be able to fly down to the ocean like Falcon 9 does?

Online ZachS09

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2329 on: 12/05/2022 11:15 pm »
Do you think the fairing would be able to fly down to the ocean like Falcon 9 does?

I think so. Same parafoil design and picked up from the sea after splashdown.
« Last Edit: 12/05/2022 11:15 pm by ZachS09 »
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Offline Comga

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2330 on: 12/06/2022 05:02 am »
Do you think the fairing would be able to fly down to the ocean like Falcon 9 does?

I think so. Same parafoil design and picked up from the sea after splashdown.

Yeah, but how WILL they make it seaworthy?
(We don’t need more guesses. 
We need to wait until Blue deigns to show us.)
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

It is still incomprehensible that anyone would lable this "Huge!"
Blue has a long, long way to go, and even "following" by copying SpaceX will have daunting challenges.

I think you are misinterpreting the comment. I interpreted “Huge” as the size of the fairing, not the occurrence of the test event.

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2332 on: 12/06/2022 01:57 pm »
https://twitter.com/spaceoffshore/status/1600100512501846016

Quote
Blue Origin hard at work again early this morning as they test with a New Glenn fairing at the KSC turning basin

nsf.live/spacecoast

Online meekGee

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2333 on: 12/06/2022 02:15 pm »
Quote
Huge!

https://twitter.com/nextspaceflight/status/1599827071060283392

Quote
Blue Origin is wrapping up taking a New Glenn payload fairing halve for a swim at the KSC turn basin this morning. It appears that Blue plans to recover the fairing halves from the water similar to SpaceX.

nsf.live/spacecoast

But the New Glenn fairing is missing one part of the Falcon fairing "magic sauce" for ocean surface recovery.
The Falcon fairing has a larger diameter than the second stage.
That means that the back end, where it attaches to the second stage, necks down.
This gives each fairing half the shape of a boat.
The New Glenn fairing is the same diameter as the rocket.
That leaves the back end open.
It is shown this way in Blue's drawings of the fairing in flight, where there are graphic cut-outs to see the payload.
That makes this fairing unsuitable for floating, unless they add something.
Perhaps an inflatable transom?
Maybe just a truncated half cone around the payload adapter.
Notice that the posted photos do not show the back end of the fairing being lifted by the crane.

It is still incomprehensible that anyone would lable this "Huge!"
Blue has a long, long way to go, and even "following" by copying SpaceX will have daunting challenges.
I can see them adding a soft wall there for that purpose
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Offline kevinof

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2334 on: 12/06/2022 02:26 pm »
Given that it's a composite structure I don't think being seaworthy is the problem - it will float even if the water gets in. It's more of a time to refurb if the innards get totally swamped before recovery.

Do you think the fairing would be able to fly down to the ocean like Falcon 9 does?

I think so. Same parafoil design and picked up from the sea after splashdown.

Yeah, but how WILL they make it seaworthy?
(We don’t need more guesses. 
We need to wait until Blue deigns to show us.)

Offline Robert_the_Doll

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2335 on: 12/06/2022 04:30 pm »
It is still incomprehensible that anyone would lable this "Huge!"
Blue has a long, long way to go, and even "following" by copying SpaceX will have daunting challenges.

I think you are misinterpreting the comment. I interpreted “Huge” as the size of the fairing, not the occurrence of the test event.

This is especially interesting since unlike during the vacuum chamber separation testing in Ohio, the fairing half here is marked in increments of 5 feet (1.5 meters) and 10 feet (3 meters).

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2336 on: 12/06/2022 04:33 pm »
https://twitter.com/tgmetsfan98/status/1600180863014096896

Quote
Potential fairing recovery testing is the latest sign of progress by Blue Origin on New Glenn. The company has also possibly acquired a facility at Port Canaveral formerly used by SpaceX for fairing processing.

By Justin Mooney (@OGNovuh):

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2022/12/blue-origin-new-glenn/

Quote
Blue Origin conducts fairing testing amid quiet New Glenn progress
written by Justin Mooney
December 6, 2022
 
Blue Origin has quietly been making progress on its orbital New Glenn vehicle, evident by new hardware and test sightings.

Offline Starshipdown

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2337 on: 12/06/2022 07:42 pm »
Nice photos, but they're of anything but this fairing shell half in the freaking water! Let's see this puppy swim!

Offline Comga

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2338 on: 12/06/2022 07:57 pm »
https://twitter.com/tgmetsfan98/status/1600180863014096896
So there’s the photo we wanted.
The back end of the fairing, the separation line, is being left wide open.
If/when it lands under ‘chutes or parafoils it will submerge partway, taking some of the hardware and acoustic suppression features with it.
SpaceX modified their fairings, after recovering some, to keep the pressure relief vents above the”waterline” to minimize an even slower uptake of seawater. 
(Not only does that keep things dry and reduce the exposure to salt, but it avoids dealing with the mass of water that flows in.  Blue may not get that “full experience” in the Tidal Basin.)
Given the clear example of the value of increasing the “seaworthiness” of fairings, it’s odd, but not unusual, that Blue is ignoring it.

PS There is almost no hardware in the fairing half, except for the pressure release vents,  which are in the traditional ring around the bottom.
« Last Edit: 12/06/2022 07:59 pm by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2339 on: 12/10/2022 12:35 pm »
Moved posts about landing NG to the Blue Origin fleet thread:  https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=45766.0

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