Author Topic: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan  (Read 1187899 times)

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2280 on: 08/18/2022 09:11 pm »
The right metric is what mass to orbit each physical vehicle can get in its lifetime. New Glenn beats SLS there, given some pro-rating of the expendable upper stage. When it’s fully reusable, New Glenn will absolutely spank SLS, by over an order of magnitude.
How many times a vehicle is used is not the only measure of its usefulness, its a pretty awful argument. By that measure, a chevy nova is more valuable and better than a falcon 9 or a space shuttle.

Amount of mass it can put on to different orbits is also very important. New Glenn has awful C3 for example.
If only someone would ever demonstrate LEO rendezvous, so you could leverage LEO payload for an other orbit. But nah, that’s impossible. Will never happen. IMPOSSIBLE, I tell you.

https://twitter.com/brickmack/status/1549531134551330820?s=20&t=69dnpCoJcua02O0C9DOLFA
« Last Edit: 08/18/2022 09:31 pm by Robotbeat »
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Online deadman1204

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2282 on: 08/19/2022 08:04 pm »
The right metric is what mass to orbit each physical vehicle can get in its lifetime. New Glenn beats SLS there, given some pro-rating of the expendable upper stage. When it’s fully reusable, New Glenn will absolutely spank SLS, by over an order of magnitude.
How many times a vehicle is used is not the only measure of its usefulness, its a pretty awful argument. By that measure, a chevy nova is more valuable and better than a falcon 9 or a space shuttle.

Amount of mass it can put on to different orbits is also very important. New Glenn has awful C3 for example.
If only someone would ever demonstrate LEO rendezvous, so you could leverage LEO payload for an other orbit. But nah, that’s impossible. Will never happen. IMPOSSIBLE, I tell you.

https://twitter.com/brickmack/status/1549531134551330820?s=20&t=69dnpCoJcua02O0C9DOLFA

So you say NG is now reliant on undeveloped technology to refuel in orbit (requiring multiple launches) to compete with existing rockets which don't need multiple launches and all the risk of refueling in orbit? Not a good look there....

I don't think NG is a horrible rocket, but you sure make it sound like one.
« Last Edit: 08/19/2022 08:12 pm by deadman1204 »

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2283 on: 08/19/2022 08:45 pm »
The right metric is what mass to orbit each physical vehicle can get in its lifetime. New Glenn beats SLS there, given some pro-rating of the expendable upper stage. When it’s fully reusable, New Glenn will absolutely spank SLS, by over an order of magnitude.
How many times a vehicle is used is not the only measure of its usefulness, its a pretty awful argument. By that measure, a chevy nova is more valuable and better than a falcon 9 or a space shuttle.

Amount of mass it can put on to different orbits is also very important. New Glenn has awful C3 for example.
If only someone would ever demonstrate LEO rendezvous, so you could leverage LEO payload for an other orbit. But nah, that’s impossible. Will never happen. IMPOSSIBLE, I tell you.

https://twitter.com/brickmack/status/1549531134551330820?s=20&t=69dnpCoJcua02O0C9DOLFA

So you say NG is now reliant on undeveloped technology to refuel in orbit (requiring multiple launches) to compete with existing rockets which don't need multiple launches and all the risk of refueling in orbit? Not a good look there....

I don't think NG is a horrible rocket, but you sure make it sound like one.
Strawman. I said LEO rendezvous, you know like Gemini-Agena demonstrated over half a century ago. And like has been done on ISS literally *hundreds* of times. ISS has also demonstrated (and relied on) hypergolic refueling. The whole point is that the obsession of “but what can it launch to some higher energy orbit—AND DON’T COUNT LEO RENDEZVOUS NOT FAIR!!!” …is a *huge* cope. Better play on it while you can, though, because that excuse has an expiration date.

Cryo Refueling will probably be demonstrated by both SpaceX and at least one other entity (ETA Space?) before New Glenn launches. Heck, the HLS bid request from NASA (which Blue responded to and expects to try for again) implicitly expects that later versions of HLS will require refueling (for reuse) or some other kind of aggregation of separately-launched stages (as Blue already bid).

(And it’s actually MUCH safer to do LEO rendezvous with smaller, higher flightrate vehicles. You don’t launch crew until the TLI stage is safely in orbit and tested ready, minimizing the number of stages the crew need to reach orbit and the size of the launch vehicle. A huge vehicle with multiple stages that all have to work but you only have flown a handful of times ever is far, FAR less safe than launching crew on a launcher proven with dozens, maybe even 100s of flights.)
« Last Edit: 08/19/2022 09:07 pm by Robotbeat »
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Comga

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2284 on: 09/12/2022 09:41 pm »
Baseline article after the announcement:
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2016/09/blue-origin-new-glenn-orbital-lv/

The announcement materials follow:

Quote
Eric Berger ‏@SciGuySpace 7m7 minutes ago
Blue Origin just revealed its plan for an orbital rocket. And ... wow. Story coming.

Quote
Eric Berger ‏@SciGuySpace 5m5 minutes ago
"The 3-stage variant – with its high specific impulse hydrogen upper stage – is capable of flying demanding beyond-LEO missions."

Happy sixth birthday to this thread!
Six years after it was said that Blue had been working on it for four years, so perhaps happy tenth birthday to New Glenn.
Quote
“We’re excited to give you a preview of our next step. One we’ve been working on for four years. Meet New Glenn.”
Six years after Blue broke ground on their massive facility just south of the KSC Visitor Center.
And what have we seen so far?
Not all that much
A few pieces of prototype hardware
Not-yet-fitted-out fairing half (halves?)
First stage "pathfinder"
A few shots of an incredibly complex interstage
Some tanks and a landing leg
A few flight engines in Texas for testing (for a rocket other than New Glenn)
A landing craft purchased, modified, and scrapped, along with the whole deal about the superiority of a moving platform.
A tank that could be the next generation, reusable upper stage or.... a water tank. ;)
Quote
As for the timeline, Mr. Bezos confirmed the rocket will enjoy her maiden flight by the end of the decade
"Soon" (TM) 
Quote
Blue is testing it's Transporter Erector   whoa!!
::)

Yeah
Happy birthday
« Last Edit: 09/12/2022 09:44 pm by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Online dglow

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2285 on: 09/13/2022 01:20 am »
Time to pour one out for Blue, (raises glass) "Here's to fast-following!"

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2286 on: 09/13/2022 03:16 pm »
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1569706411264811014

Quote
Jarrett Jones, Blue Origin: last 12 months have been critical for New Glenn; “over the hump” on qualification and plans to get to first launch.

Offline Comga

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2287 on: 09/13/2022 11:00 pm »
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1569706411264811014

Quote
Jarrett Jones, Blue Origin: last 12 months have been critical for New Glenn; “over the hump” on qualification and plans to get to first launch.

Excuse me, but what would someone even say that?
What year in a development program is not critical?
(A year in which nothing gets accomplished?)
After ten years they now have "plans to get to first launch"?
What did they have for the previous decade?
These things may be true, but they don't really qualify as "news".


And there isn't "the hump".
In a leading edge development program it's humps all the way to the end.



What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Online dglow

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2288 on: 09/13/2022 11:24 pm »
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1569706411264811014

Quote
Jarrett Jones, Blue Origin: last 12 months have been critical for New Glenn; “over the hump” on qualification and plans to get to first launch.

Excuse me, but what would someone even say that?
What year in a development program is not critical?
(A year in which nothing gets accomplished?)
After ten years they now have "plans to get to first launch"?
What did they have for the previous decade?
These things may be true, but they don't really qualify as "news".


And there isn't "the hump".
In a leading edge development program it's humps all the way to the end.

I presume the hump is BE-4 development.

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2289 on: 09/14/2022 05:29 pm »
NG segment from the NS-23 launch webcast. Some hardware on show:

https://twitter.com/spacenosey/status/1570101528672739328

Offline Robert_the_Doll

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2290 on: 09/14/2022 06:42 pm »
Most, if not all of what is in that video has been seen before.

Offline Robert_the_Doll

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2291 on: 09/14/2022 07:19 pm »
A few pieces of prototype hardware

So, which ones can you point out to us are prototype and which ones are flight? Do you know?

Quote from: Comga
Not-yet-fitted-out fairing half (halves?)

Halves, actually. And we have seen a fully outfitted set, which along with an adapter, were tested at NASA's Ohio facility.

Quote from: Comga
First stage "pathfinder"

Yes, it is a tried and true way to do fit checks and practicing transport, etc. without risking real hardware.

Quote from: Comga
A few shots of an incredibly complex interstage

What is so "incredibly complex" about the forward module interstage(s) we have been shown? Is it any more or less complex than, say, a Falcon 9 interstage?

Quote from: Comga
Some tanks and a landing leg

Very large tanks, both test and flight hardware. It is also very good to see at least a prototype landing leg.

Quote from: Comga
A few flight engines in Texas for testing (for a rocket other than New Glenn)

The Vulcan flight engines are informing the production processes and the reliability of those used on New Glenn. Given New Glenn's are intended to be reusable from first launch onward, I would say ironing out problems now is a good thing.

Quote from: Comga
A landing craft purchased, modified, and scrapped, along with the whole deal about the superiority of a moving platform.

If circumstances have changed that they need a new direction or the direction they were originally going with are a bad thing, then that is likely a good thing. Keep in mind, the flight rates for New Glenn going up to support Project Kuiper as well as other customers probably require more than a single large ship that can only be used and turned around once a month.

Quote from: Comga
A tank that could be the next generation, reusable upper stage or.... a water tank. ;)

It is very probably neither. It is becoming more apparent the "Jarvis" tank was only another boilerplate pathfinder. In this case, a boilerplate for the real tank that rolled out over a month ago for propellant loading tests.

Quote from: Comga
Blue is testing it's Transporter Erector   whoa!!


I should hope they test it. It would be bad not to and then run into problems on launch day that make SLS's recent Wet Dress Rehearsal and launch attempt problems look tame by comparison.
« Last Edit: 09/16/2022 02:39 am by Robert_the_Doll »

Offline harrystranger

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2292 on: 10/06/2022 01:29 pm »
Some New Glenn hardware spotted in the newest NSF flyover video (timestamped):

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2293 on: 10/06/2022 04:22 pm »
Some New Glenn hardware spotted in the newest NSF flyover video (timestamped): youtu.be/PdzgSLkfLJs?t=479

Attached some frames from the video

Offline Starshipdown

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2294 on: 10/06/2022 07:56 pm »
The hardware there is nothing new, just its location. It's the forward module (interstage) section, and it looks like it's heavily instrumented still for structural testing.

Well, you can't deny that it's a gorgeous facility, so at least there's that.
« Last Edit: 10/06/2022 08:02 pm by JEF_300 »
Wait, ∆V? This site will accept the ∆ symbol? How many times have I written out the word "delta" for no reason?

Online deadman1204

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2296 on: 10/09/2022 12:20 am »
Well, you can't deny that it's a gorgeous facility, so at least there's that.
Its a nice empty building. There are lots of buildings, who cares how nice and white it is on the inside.

Offline harrystranger

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2297 on: 10/09/2022 12:45 am »
Well, you can't deny that it's a gorgeous facility, so at least there's that.
Its a nice empty building. There are lots of buildings, who cares how nice and white it is on the inside.
We know that the buildings are far from empty. And this was 2 months ago.  :) https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1555197624269082624
« Last Edit: 10/09/2022 12:45 am by harrystranger »

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2298 on: 10/09/2022 05:28 pm »
https://twitter.com/nasaspaceflight/status/1579161532520271874

Quote
Blue Origin hardware is being transported off the barge.

Some clips from: nsf.live/spacecoast

Offline Robert_the_Doll

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #2299 on: 10/09/2022 07:44 pm »
https://twitter.com/nasaspaceflight/status/1579161532520271874

Quote
Blue Origin hardware is being transported off the barge.

Some clips from: nsf.live/spacecoast

The very same adapter as seen in action several months ago:


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