Quote from: Lar on 02/11/2019 07:25 pmNo they aren't, IMHO. They are playing for a different outcome. Not just a seat at the gravy train buffet, but a fairer process. OldSpacers fundamentally don't get Elon.The only reason they want a fairer process is so that they can get a seat at the same gravy train. Do you really think that SpaceX/Elon care if the Air Force gets a good deal? Or if their positions were switched SpaceX would be advocating for their competitors in the name of fairness? Come on, when it comes to this stuff SpaceX is playing the same game as everyone else: win as many lucrative government contracts as possible. Now, they may have very different plans for all that money than Boeing/LM (funding BFR vs increasing shareholder value) but that’s a different story altogether.
No they aren't, IMHO. They are playing for a different outcome. Not just a seat at the gravy train buffet, but a fairer process. OldSpacers fundamentally don't get Elon.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-12/spacex-launch-certification-to-face-review-by-pentagon-watchdog
Quote from: Rabidpanda on 02/12/2019 02:48 amQuote from: Lar on 02/11/2019 07:25 pmNo they aren't, IMHO. They are playing for a different outcome. Not just a seat at the gravy train buffet, but a fairer process. OldSpacers fundamentally don't get Elon.The only reason they want a fairer process is so that they can get a seat at the same gravy train. Do you really think that SpaceX/Elon care if the Air Force gets a good deal? Or if their positions were switched SpaceX would be advocating for their competitors in the name of fairness? Come on, when it comes to this stuff SpaceX is playing the same game as everyone else: win as many lucrative government contracts as possible. Now, they may have very different plans for all that money than Boeing/LM (funding BFR vs increasing shareholder value) but that’s a different story altogether.No.As long as there is a gravy train, we won't have millions living and working in space, and we won't become an interplanetary species. You're wrong. Call me naiive if you like, but no.
Believe it or not the government may not want to put all of their eggs in the baskets of a company that hasn't attempted an orbital flight yet and a company that has publicly announced they want to get rid of their currently certified vehicles as soon as possible.
Quote from: Lar on 02/12/2019 04:26 amAs long as there is a gravy train, we won't have millions living and working in space, and we won't become an interplanetary species. You're wrong. Call me naiive if you like, but no.And why is that? Many of these same companies compete for military aircraft contracts in a similar manner. Yet there is also a thriving commercial air transportation industry that ferries millions of people around every day.
As long as there is a gravy train, we won't have millions living and working in space, and we won't become an interplanetary species. You're wrong. Call me naiive if you like, but no.
It’s still unclear how the Air Force will respond. This is a tough one because SpaceX has powerful friends on Capitol Hill that could complicate things for the Air Force going forward. But it’s also hard to see how the Air Force goes back and redoes the LSA decision. According to one industry insider, SpaceX did this to itself by submitting a bid — presumably centered around the Raptor engine, the Starship and Super Heavy launch vehicles — that did not satisfy the Air Force. This could have huge consequences for SpaceX in the long run as it will not get government funding and assistance to upgrade its rockets to meet Air Force launch requirements. “So it’s not surprising they are trying to make an end run around the contracting process by going directly to Congress,” the insider said.
This article appears initially at least to be pointing the finger at Space X, make of that what you will.This is the paragraph I am referring to.QuoteIt’s still unclear how the Air Force will respond. This is a tough one because SpaceX has powerful friends on Capitol Hill that could complicate things for the Air Force going forward. But it’s also hard to see how the Air Force goes back and redoes the LSA decision. According to one industry insider, SpaceX did this to itself by submitting a bid — presumably centered around the Raptor engine, the Starship and Super Heavy launch vehicles — that did not satisfy the Air Force. This could have huge consequences for SpaceX in the long run as it will not get government funding and assistance to upgrade its rockets to meet Air Force launch requirements. “So it’s not surprising they are trying to make an end run around the contracting process by going directly to Congress,” the insider said.https://spacenews.com/air-force-launch-procurement-under-scrutiny/
Or SpaceX had other reasons for not protesting that you haven't deduced correctly....
- Maybe they knew they could win but didn't want to actually have USAF exerting control over SS/SH development
Maybe they knew they could win but didn't want the optics of yet again bloodying USAF's nose over this.
Maybe they ARE protesting but because it's an OTA, you aren't seeing it since it doesn't follow normal channels.
QuoteSpaceX is playing politics just like everyone else. No they aren't, IMHO. They are playing for a different outcome. Not just a seat at the gravy train buffet, but a fairer process. OldSpacers fundamentally don't get Elon.
SpaceX is playing politics just like everyone else.
Or SpaceX had other reasons for not protesting that you haven't deduced correctly....- Maybe they knew they could win but didn't want to actually have USAF exerting control over SS/SH development- Maybe they knew they could win but didn't want the optics of yet again bloodying USAF's nose over this.- Maybe they ARE protesting but because it's an OTA, you aren't seeing it since it doesn't follow normal channels. QuoteSpaceX is playing politics just like everyone else. No they aren't, IMHO. They are playing for a different outcome. Not just a seat at the gravy train buffet, but a fairer process. OldSpacers fundamentally don't get Elon.
The report said Musk noted that SpaceX was not successful in the Air Force competition for a launch service contract and commented that SpaceX had written a poor proposal that “missed the mark.”
QuoteThe report said Musk noted that SpaceX was not successful in the Air Force competition for a launch service contract and commented that SpaceX had written a poor proposal that “missed the mark.”The difference between government and commercial business is so great that many companies only do one or the other. Commercial business depends on marketing, while government business depends on proposal writing, a winning proposal can easily cost millions of dollars to prepare. SpaceX is now trying to do both so there has probably been a learning curve.