Sierra Space LEO Space station

[Lee Jay]

As I recall, he said it launches with the cargo module even in crew mode and that the abort systems are integrated into the vehicle (I think).  He specifically mentioned having enough thrust for pad abort.

[adrianwyard]

I just found Steve Lindsey's answer on the Vimeo recording (starts at 49:46).

He does talk about separating from the cargo module and the use of a sustainer motor to get to a runway, which makes it sound like the sustainer is integrated rather than on the cargo module, but it's not 100% clear.

(For Dream Chaser only discussion, perhaps we should switch to that thread: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29417.0)

[Lee Jay]

Is this the same as the (now private) YouTube video?

Yes...thank you!


That's the back of my head on the left edge.

[TrevorMonty]

Pushing ability of cargo DC to return Astronauts in emergency. Cargo is 80% of crew version, sound like it just needs LAS, fixed wings and extra ECLSS endurance.

Cargo DC doesn't need LAS or fixed wings. It's already at the space station if the need arises for crew to use it in an emergency. Would need ECLSS.

Another space station concept with no windows 

I like SNC but I am getting big time Bigelow vibes from this where they are pushing out a concept with nowhere near the business case to make it happen.  SNC is leaps and bounds more business savvy than Bigelow,  but I won't be holding my breath to see if this goes anywhere.

SNC is experienced aerospace company with 4-5000 empolyees, this space station is well within their capabilities. Being privately owned by Ozmens their are free to fund this project, no shareholders to answer too.

They would be 2nd largest privately own aerospace company behind SpaceX. Blue is closing fast with money Bezos is injecting.

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[ncb1397]

Pushing ability of cargo DC to return Astronauts in emergency. Cargo is 80% of crew version, sound like it just needs LAS, fixed wings and extra ECLSS endurance.

Cargo DC doesn't need LAS or fixed wings. It's already at the space station if the need arises for crew to use it in an emergency. Would need ECLSS.

Another space station concept with no windows 

I like SNC but I am getting big time Bigelow vibes from this where they are pushing out a concept with nowhere near the business case to make it happen.  SNC is leaps and bounds more business savvy than Bigelow,  but I won't be holding my breath to see if this goes anywhere.

SNC is experienced aerospace company with 4-5000 empolyees, this space station is well within their capabilities. Being privately owned by Ozmens their are free to fund this project, no shareholders to answer too.

If they don't have shareholders, then they have to answer to bankers. I'm not so sure that they can fund this out of their own pocket or SNC's earnings, and I'm not sure how much NASA is putting up (Congress is going to have a say). They could do a private fundraising round or go public, or start small and slowly build out over time as it is modular. If NASA signs contracts for on orbit habitat space even if it is years out, they could probably finance a good portion ahead of time via loans. Anyways, this is a very long term project (they mention before the decade is out but that could stretch), and would be accomplished in phases (The next phase would be cargo missions hopefully next year). If they get a contract to put LIFE at gateway, that would go a long way into proving out and development of the underlying technology.

[Lee Jay]

They mention (starting 29:50-31:30 on the video) that they want overlap with the 2028 expected earliest ISS retirement.

[GWH]

SNC is experienced aerospace company with 4-5000 empolyees, this space station is well within their capabilities. Being privately owned by Ozmens their are free to fund this project, no shareholders to answer too.

They would be 2nd largest privately own aerospace company behind SpaceX. Blue is closing fast with money Bezos is injecting.

I don't have any doubts about their technical ability to design and build a space station, nor their ability to build relationships and agreements with governmental agencies like NASA.

What I am skeptical on is their ability to attract and retain commercial customers in order to fill in the gaps in what will be a competitive environment and at best small market.

Axiom is already building and has customers flying next year, albeit to the ISS but that revenue stream is flowing regardless. That huge cupola is being built as we speak and IMO is very appealing to the tourist market segment.
Then we have Blue Origin and whatever they plan to build and fly. Can Blue actually execute in a timely manner? Maybe, maybe not.
Will a Chinese station or (unlikely) Russian station attract foreign potential customers?
Of course there's "Company X" but I don't want to speculate on that discussion and derail this thread.

Then there is the major value proposition of an expandable module: flying on 5 meter fairings. Same as what Bigelow proposed with B330. In a world where 7 meter New Glenn should be flying, Vulcan is at least capable of hosting a 7 meter fairing, and "Company X" may or may not be capable of flying 9 meter payloads, I just don't see any particular reason to use expandables in LEO.

Time will tell if SNC can attract customers - the UN Dream Chaser free flyer can provide some insight. I haven't heard anything on that project in a long time, but maybe it's moving ahead steadily in the background?

Overall my sense is that this is another solution in search of a problem. A solution backed by a great engineering team yes, but not a solution to a well defined demand and market.

[Lee Jay]

Then there is the major value proposition of an expandable module: flying on 5 meter fairings. Same as what Bigelow proposed with B330. In a world where 7 meter New Glenn should be flying, Vulcan is at least capable of hosting a 7 meter fairing, and "Company X" may or may not be capable of flying 9 meter payloads, I just don't see any particular reason to use expandables in LEO.

That module I was in was huge.  I wasn't kidding when I said it felt like my house.  My house is 2 stories above ground and 1 below.  It's 26 feet total in inside height - about the same size as this module.  I've been inside an ISS module mockup (a little over 4m in diameter).  It's the difference between a walk-in closet and a whole house.

[JAFO]

Then there is the major value proposition of an expandable module: flying on 5 meter fairings. Same as what Bigelow proposed with B330. In a world where 7 meter New Glenn should be flying, Vulcan is at least capable of hosting a 7 meter fairing, and "Company X" may or may not be capable of flying 9 meter payloads, I just don't see any particular reason to use expandables in LEO.

That module I was in was huge.  I wasn't kidding when I said it felt like my house.  My house is 2 stories above ground and 1 below.  It's 26 feet total in inside height - about the same size as this module.  I've been inside an ISS module mockup (a little over 4m in diameter).  It's the difference between a walk-in closet and a whole house.

Lee I’m a little confused. Are you saying they had a full scale mockup you were able to physically examine or are you just going off the presentation? If there is a physical full-scale mock up were you allowed to take and can you post any images?


Thanks.

[Lee Jay]

Then there is the major value proposition of an expandable module: flying on 5 meter fairings. Same as what Bigelow proposed with B330. In a world where 7 meter New Glenn should be flying, Vulcan is at least capable of hosting a 7 meter fairing, and "Company X" may or may not be capable of flying 9 meter payloads, I just don't see any particular reason to use expandables in LEO.

That module I was in was huge.  I wasn't kidding when I said it felt like my house.  My house is 2 stories above ground and 1 below.  It's 26 feet total in inside height - about the same size as this module.  I've been inside an ISS module mockup (a little over 4m in diameter).  It's the difference between a walk-in closet and a whole house.

Lee I’m a little confused. Are you saying they had a full scale mockup you were able to physically examine or are you just going off the presentation? If there is a physical full-scale mock up were you allowed to take and can you post any images?


Thanks.

I was inside it, 2 years ago today, actually, and did post many pictures on L2.

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=47793.0

[ncb1397]

I just don't see any particular reason to use expandables in LEO.

They do tend to be extremely light. BEAM is like 88 kg/cubic meter. Destiny is about 137 kg/cubic meter. If Life is 88 kg/cubic meter, that puts the module at 26,400 kg. That is essentially within the capabilities of Vulcan Centaur with a few solids. With New Glenn's 45 t, you could add on a power and propulsion element and have a basic habitat in one launch.

Then there is the major value proposition of an expandable module: flying on 5 meter fairings. Same as what Bigelow proposed with B330. In a world where 7 meter New Glenn should be flying, Vulcan is at least capable of hosting a 7 meter fairing, and "Company X" may or may not be capable of flying 9 meter payloads, I just don't see any particular reason to use expandables in LEO.

That module I was in was huge.  I wasn't kidding when I said it felt like my house.  My house is 2 stories above ground and 1 below.  It's 26 feet total in inside height - about the same size as this module.  I've been inside an ISS module mockup (a little over 4m in diameter).  It's the difference between a walk-in closet and a whole house.

Lee I’m a little confused. Are you saying they had a full scale mockup you were able to physically examine or are you just going off the presentation? If there is a physical full-scale mock up were you allowed to take and can you post any images?


Thanks.

There is plenty of video and pictures of it...

[JAFO]

Then there is the major value proposition of an expandable module: flying on 5 meter fairings. Same as what Bigelow proposed with B330. In a world where 7 meter New Glenn should be flying, Vulcan is at least capable of hosting a 7 meter fairing, and "Company X" may or may not be capable of flying 9 meter payloads, I just don't see any particular reason to use expandables in LEO.

That module I was in was huge.  I wasn't kidding when I said it felt like my house.  My house is 2 stories above ground and 1 below.  It's 26 feet total in inside height - about the same size as this module.  I've been inside an ISS module mockup (a little over 4m in diameter).  It's the difference between a walk-in closet and a whole house.

Lee I’m a little confused. Are you saying they had a full scale mockup you were able to physically examine or are you just going off the presentation? If there is a physical full-scale mock up were you allowed to take and can you post any images?


Thanks.

I was inside it, 2 years ago today, actually, and did post many pictures on L2.

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=47793.0

Thanks. I had to let my L2 subscription lapse, they raised the prices on Rotax 914s and it’s almost time to buy one.

[Lee Jay]

Then there is the major value proposition of an expandable module: flying on 5 meter fairings. Same as what Bigelow proposed with B330. In a world where 7 meter New Glenn should be flying, Vulcan is at least capable of hosting a 7 meter fairing, and "Company X" may or may not be capable of flying 9 meter payloads, I just don't see any particular reason to use expandables in LEO.

That module I was in was huge.  I wasn't kidding when I said it felt like my house.  My house is 2 stories above ground and 1 below.  It's 26 feet total in inside height - about the same size as this module.  I've been inside an ISS module mockup (a little over 4m in diameter).  It's the difference between a walk-in closet and a whole house.

Lee I’m a little confused. Are you saying they had a full scale mockup you were able to physically examine or are you just going off the presentation? If there is a physical full-scale mock up were you allowed to take and can you post any images?


Thanks.

I was inside it, 2 years ago today, actually, and did post many pictures on L2.

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=47793.0

Thanks. I had to let my L2 subscription lapse, they raised the prices on Rotax 914s and it’s almost time to buy one.

Not going for the 915is?  I hear they're only a few centuries worth of L2 subscription funds.

That's Steve Lindsey on the left.

[JAFO]

Too complicated for my build. At some point you get away from what you're building, a LSX is not a 787. (Check PMs)


Is thread drift approved if you're replying to a Mod?

[TrevorMonty]

Inflatables offer more protection from MMD and radiation according to Bigelow reports. There should be difference in noise absorption compared to metal habitats, not sure if its for better though.

Move to 7 or 8m fairing and size goes up considerably see Bigelow BA2100.
Would need extra flights to fully fit it out.


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[TrevorMonty]

SNC may have their first customer for LEO station. Redwire owns Made In Space which is developing a few 0g manufacturing technologies, optical fibre being one of them.

Besides renting room in station can also rent port and attach your own module. Just  buy air, power, comms and possibly transport from SNC.

https://www.sncorp.com/press-releases/sierra-space-signs-in-space-manufacturing-agreement/

Sierra Nevada Corporation (SNC), today announced the signing of a joint agreement with Redwire aimed at leveraging Sierra Space capabilities for a range of in-space services and manufacturing.

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[clongton]

Bump

[pathfinder_01]

I am amazed from the dream chaser PDF they plan this system to have operational costs of about 300 million. Now that is a lower target than I expected.

[yg1968]

See below:

Announcing Orbital Reef - Your Address in Orbit



See also the press release:
https://blueorigin-static-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/assets/orbital-reef-press-release.pdf

[TomH]

WaPo coverage of Orbital Reef: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/11/19/sierra-space-investment-dream-chaser-orbital-reef/