Author Topic: Stratolaunch: General Company and Development Updates and Discussions  (Read 1020961 times)

Offline RanulfC

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4595
  • Heus tu Omnis! Vigilate Hoc!
  • Liked: 900
  • Likes Given: 32
strangely enough I happened across these two studies on an Air-Launched LV that just "happen" to have a really, really similar Carrier Aircraft in the Eclipse:
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19940020540_1994020540.pdf
Indeed.  Page 12 of chapter 1 has an uncanny diagram that perhaps most people would mistake for Allen's Stratolaunch at a glance. 
"I" am NOT accusing anyone of anything.... Except maybe "Scaled" of hireing some of the grads? ;)

Randy
From The Amazing Catstronaut on the Black Arrow LV:
British physics, old chap. It's undignified to belch flames and effluvia all over the pad, what. A true gentlemen's orbital conveyance lifts itself into the air unostentatiously, with the minimum of spectacle and a modicum of grace. Not like our American cousins' launch vehicles, eh?

Offline RanulfC

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4595
  • Heus tu Omnis! Vigilate Hoc!
  • Liked: 900
  • Likes Given: 32
Alternate/Informaton question on engine cost;
I seem to recall the RL-10 was somewhere between $10 and $20 million PER engine, anyone recall if this is accurate or not?

Randy
From The Amazing Catstronaut on the Black Arrow LV:
British physics, old chap. It's undignified to belch flames and effluvia all over the pad, what. A true gentlemen's orbital conveyance lifts itself into the air unostentatiously, with the minimum of spectacle and a modicum of grace. Not like our American cousins' launch vehicles, eh?

Offline go4mars

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3748
  • Earth
  • Liked: 158
  • Likes Given: 3463
Looks like Colorado might be next for Stratolaunch. 

Also, presumably fast intercontinental transportation is the big market here.  That's the logical assumption anyways.   

The article in this link is well worth reading with lots of interesting nuggets!  Among other things, talks about skiing in Colorado in the morning and surfing in Australia after lunch.  Includes some history in the growth of thoughts surrounding what I think is referring to Stratolaunch.  This article is Dec 8th (before Stratolaunch announcement).   



http://www.parabolicarc.com/2011/12/08/look-out-spaceport-america-heres-comes-colorado/

"The impetus for applying for spaceport certification now is the result of serious interest on the part of out-of-state companies preparing for future space tourism, said Tom Clark, CEO of the Metro Denver Economic Development Corp.

The companies, which Clark would not identify, are working on a spacecraft that takes off horizontally from a runway like a plane but then, tens of thousands of feet into the air, lights a booster rocket capable to taking passengers past the upper reaches of the atmosphere, Clark said."

"That would open up the possibility not just of space travel to ordinary — but wealthy — people, but also of ultrafast travel to points on Earth, he said."

« Last Edit: 12/30/2011 12:00 am by go4mars »
Elasmotherium; hurlyburly Doggerlandic Jentilak steeds insouciantly gallop in viridescent taiga, eluding deluginal Burckle's abyssal excavation.

Offline docmordrid

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6334
  • Michigan
  • Liked: 4207
  • Likes Given: 2
Could also be a Skylon derivative with a passenger cabin.
DM

Offline HMXHMX

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1710
  • Liked: 2215
  • Likes Given: 662
Alternate/Informaton question on engine cost;
I seem to recall the RL-10 was somewhere between $10 and $20 million PER engine, anyone recall if this is accurate or not?

Randy

$10-12M was the last I heard, for 2015 deliveries.

Offline go4mars

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3748
  • Earth
  • Liked: 158
  • Likes Given: 3463
Could also be a Skylon derivative with a passenger cabin.

He talks about the companies (plural) working on this.  I think skylon is just worked on by 1 company.           ...unless he means Reaction Engines Limited as one of the companies.
"The companies... are working on a spacecraft that takes off horizontally from a runway like a plane but then, tens of thousands of feet into the air, lights a booster rocket capable to taking passengers past the upper reaches of the atmosphere,"

The discussion of the runway length and extension are more pertinent to stratolaunch as I understand it. 

The timing and location also make me suspicious that this is stratolaunch. 
Timing: 5 days before stratolaunch announcement.  Skylon's been on the drawing board for 30 years. 
Location: Kimbal Musk lives in Boulder and Elon has connections there.   Also, IIRC, the proteus was built in Colorado and Scaled Technology Works is in Colorado also (correct me if I'm wrong). 

Anyway, skylon is only 24 passengers vs. potentially a few hundred that might be possible with stratolaunch/F5.  24 people at a time would be very challenged economics vs. hundreds of people per flight which might have a market size  big enough to be revolutionary to the average upper-middle class Joe or Jane. 

Not that I dislike skylon or anything.  I wish the skylon people success as well!  Just seems less likely to me for those reasons.
« Last Edit: 12/30/2011 01:12 am by go4mars »
Elasmotherium; hurlyburly Doggerlandic Jentilak steeds insouciantly gallop in viridescent taiga, eluding deluginal Burckle's abyssal excavation.

Offline Patchouli

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4490
  • Liked: 253
  • Likes Given: 457
Alternate/Informaton question on engine cost;
I seem to recall the RL-10 was somewhere between $10 and $20 million PER engine, anyone recall if this is accurate or not?

Randy

$10-12M was the last I heard, for 2015 deliveries.

A single J-2X might be cheaper then.

I wonder if the Ares I US could have flown as a SSTO in the Delta II payload class if air launched?
« Last Edit: 12/30/2011 01:19 am by Patchouli »

Offline go4mars

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3748
  • Earth
  • Liked: 158
  • Likes Given: 3463
It's even possible that stratolaunch test program would take off from near Denver, fire off the rocket over the ocean off California, then land in New Mexico or elsewhere until they've built up enough flight history to be allowed to overfly populated areas on a tower of flame.  I assume that if they are deemed safe enough to fly passengers commercially and in quantity, that they would be deemed safe enough to overfly populated areas.  Is that a bad assumption?   

Might they be able to fire the rocket somewhere above the desert in the US SW and try to thread a careful path over nearly unpopulated areas between towns until they make it above water during their test program?   

How much time elapses between stratolaunch takeoff and 40000 feet or so?  Any guesses?  Just curious how big of a portion of the inter-continental travel time climb time might be. 
« Last Edit: 12/30/2011 01:34 am by go4mars »
Elasmotherium; hurlyburly Doggerlandic Jentilak steeds insouciantly gallop in viridescent taiga, eluding deluginal Burckle's abyssal excavation.

Offline Zed_Noir

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5490
  • Canada
  • Liked: 1809
  • Likes Given: 1302
It's even possible that stratolaunch test program would take off from near Denver, fire off the rocket over the ocean off California, then land in New Mexico or elsewhere until they've built up enough flight history to be allowed to overfly populated areas on a tower of flame.  I assume that if they are deemed safe enough to fly passengers commercially and in quantity, that they would be deemed safe enough to overfly populated areas.  Is that a bad assumption?   

Might they be able to fire the rocket somewhere above the desert in the US SW and try to thread a careful path over nearly unpopulated areas between towns until they make it above water during their test program?   

How much time elapses between stratolaunch takeoff and 40000 feet or so?  Any guesses?  Just curious how big of a portion of the inter-continental travel time climb time might be. 

IIRC Stratolaunch operates at 30000 feet for launching the F4/F5. My WAG is about 2 hours to operational altitude.

Offline go4mars

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3748
  • Earth
  • Liked: 158
  • Likes Given: 3463
My WAG is about 2 hours to operational altitude.
That seems pretty slow to me, but if true could account for more than half of the total time in the air(2 hours clipped on, 2 hours hypersonic rocket phase).  It would however align well with covering ground to get to the ocean to release.  From Denver, that's only 23000 feet up, but about 1000 miles to the Pacific.  At 500 miles per hour...    2 hours might be required anyways.
« Last Edit: 12/30/2011 04:20 am by go4mars »
Elasmotherium; hurlyburly Doggerlandic Jentilak steeds insouciantly gallop in viridescent taiga, eluding deluginal Burckle's abyssal excavation.

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37441
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 21451
  • Likes Given: 428
It's even possible that stratolaunch test program would take off from near Denver, fire off the rocket over the ocean off California, then land in New Mexico or elsewhere until they've built up enough flight history to be allowed to overfly populated areas on a tower of flame.  I assume that if they are deemed safe enough to fly passengers commercially and in quantity, that they would be deemed safe enough to overfly populated areas.  Is that a bad assumption?   

Might they be able to fire the rocket somewhere above the desert in the US SW and try to thread a careful path over nearly unpopulated areas between towns until they make it above water during their test program?   

How much time elapses between stratolaunch takeoff and 40000 feet or so?  Any guesses?  Just curious how big of a portion of the inter-continental travel time climb time might be. 

Nope, not possible and bad assumptions.

Also, Denver is a bad choice for its attitude and weather
« Last Edit: 12/30/2011 12:44 pm by Jim »

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37441
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 21451
  • Likes Given: 428
Could also be a Skylon derivative with a passenger cabin.

He talks about the companies (plural) working on this.  I think skylon is just worked on by 1 company.           ...unless he means Reaction Engines Limited as one of the companies.
"The companies... are working on a spacecraft that takes off horizontally from a runway like a plane but then, tens of thousands of feet into the air, lights a booster rocket capable to taking passengers past the upper reaches of the atmosphere,"

The discussion of the runway length and extension are more pertinent to stratolaunch as I understand it. 

The timing and location also make me suspicious that this is stratolaunch. 
Timing: 5 days before stratolaunch announcement.  Skylon's been on the drawing board for 30 years. 
Location: Kimbal Musk lives in Boulder and Elon has connections there.   Also, IIRC, the proteus was built in Colorado and Scaled Technology Works is in Colorado also (correct me if I'm wrong). 

Anyway, skylon is only 24 passengers vs. potentially a few hundred that might be possible with stratolaunch/F5.  24 people at a time would be very challenged economics vs. hundreds of people per flight which might have a market size  big enough to be revolutionary to the average upper-middle class Joe or Jane. 

Not that I dislike skylon or anything.  I wish the skylon people success as well!  Just seems less likely to me for those reasons.

Huh?  What hundreds of people per flight? 

Huh?  Skylon is likely?  Just shows you bias and love for everything Spacex
« Last Edit: 12/30/2011 12:49 pm by Jim »

Offline JohnFornaro

  • Not an expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10974
  • Delta-t is an important metric.
  • Planet Eaarth
    • Design / Program Associates
  • Liked: 1257
  • Likes Given: 724
Among other things, talks about skiing in Colorado in the morning and surfing in Australia after lunch.

Which is fine for the 0.1%, but has no practical applications for anyone else.
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline go4mars

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3748
  • Earth
  • Liked: 158
  • Likes Given: 3463
Huh?  Skylon is likely?
As noted, to my knowledge, skylon isn't being worked on by multiple companies (unlike stratolaunch).  Nothing to do with bias.  I like skylon.  I just don't think this press release is as likely to be referring to skylon. 
Elasmotherium; hurlyburly Doggerlandic Jentilak steeds insouciantly gallop in viridescent taiga, eluding deluginal Burckle's abyssal excavation.

Offline go4mars

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3748
  • Earth
  • Liked: 158
  • Likes Given: 3463
Which is fine for the 0.1%, but has no practical applications for anyone else.
Just like airplanes and cars when they were new. 
Elasmotherium; hurlyburly Doggerlandic Jentilak steeds insouciantly gallop in viridescent taiga, eluding deluginal Burckle's abyssal excavation.

Offline Danderman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10288
  • Liked: 699
  • Likes Given: 723
Which is fine for the 0.1%, but has no practical applications for anyone else.
Just like airplanes and cars when they were new. 

Or travel on the first jets, which gave rise to the term "jet setters".

Offline Lee Jay

  • Elite Veteran
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8566
  • Liked: 3603
  • Likes Given: 327
Also, Denver is a bad choice for its attitude and weather

Altitude, yes, but that's why the international runway at DIA is so long (a thousand feel longer than the SLF which is already enormous).

What's wrong with the weather?  While we have occasional problems with weather extremes, for the most part weather causes very few problems with air travel compared to other cities like Chicago and San Francisco.

Offline go4mars

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3748
  • Earth
  • Liked: 158
  • Likes Given: 3463
Attitude.  Not altitude.  The wealthy, high-tech large population base in and around Denver might be more important than physical geography if there is a work-around in mind.  Also, the Denver airport is a major major hub.  Accessing more passengers would be easier from that airport compared to Mojave or New Mexico since that infrastructure and travel paths are already set up there.

And yes, hundreds of people.  If you assume no passenger stage burn, and no payload above the second second (passenger) stage, the the fuel requirements for propulsive landing would be less than 1/15th of the 1st stage fuel requirements.  That leaves a lot of mass available for people, padded walls and floors for when the engines are on.  Much of the rest of the time people will just float around the cabin I would guess.  No chairs = less weight.
« Last Edit: 12/30/2011 03:22 pm by go4mars »
Elasmotherium; hurlyburly Doggerlandic Jentilak steeds insouciantly gallop in viridescent taiga, eluding deluginal Burckle's abyssal excavation.

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37441
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 21451
  • Likes Given: 428
Attitude.  Not altitude.  The wealthy, high-tech large population base in and around Denver might be more important than physical geography.

And yes, hundreds of people.  If you assume no passenger stage burn, and no payload above the second second (passenger) stage, the the fuel requirements for propulsive landing would be less than 1/15th of the 1st stage fuel requirements.  That leaves a lot of mass available for people, padded walls and floors for when the engines are on.  Much of the rest of the time people will just float around the cabin I would guess.  No chairs = less weight.

More unfounded conjecture.  Reality is the opposite of your posts.

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37441
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 21451
  • Likes Given: 428
Attitude.  Not altitude.  The wealthy, high-tech large population base in and around Denver might be more important than physical geography.


It isn't unique wrt wealthy or high tech or even above median
« Last Edit: 12/30/2011 03:28 pm by Jim »

 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
1