Author Topic: Dream Chaser making impressive progress ahead of CCDev-3  (Read 213691 times)

Offline Chris Bergin

And here's the latest article.

SNC outline Dream Chaser’s Enterprise-style landing test approach
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/06/snc-dream-chasers-enterprise-test-approach/

Another standalone thread will be created for it (so discuss anything related in there).
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Offline cyberayhan

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Re: Dream Chaser making impressive progress ahead of CCDev-3
« Reply #301 on: 06/09/2012 02:54 pm »
Why is it shaped so ugly. When I look at it, it just makes me feel like it cannot fly.
It does not have that style like the space shuttle.
At least they should have made the top even instead of from a bug hump to a narrow drop.
« Last Edit: 06/09/2012 02:56 pm by cyberayhan »

Offline Jim

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Re: Dream Chaser making impressive progress ahead of CCDev-3
« Reply #302 on: 06/09/2012 03:13 pm »
Because it is a lifting body.  The shuttle shape is not the only one out there

Offline Jim

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Re: Dream Chaser making impressive progress ahead of CCDev-3
« Reply #303 on: 06/09/2012 03:17 pm »
It is a functional shape and not for esthetics.   It can't be changed just because you don't think it is good looking.  Look up info about the other lifting bodies that were X planes,  also the shuttle was almost like this.

Offline cyberayhan

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Re: Dream Chaser making impressive progress ahead of CCDev-3
« Reply #304 on: 06/09/2012 03:30 pm »
I do understand what you are saying. I'm just surprised that this one was picked over the other designs and this one is my least favorite.

I would have preferred an X-37 but bigger to hold 7 crew members. If not the X-34 is my next favorite. After that comes X-38. I'm just wondering how HL-20 was selected over the others.

X-37
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X37

X-34
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-34

X-38 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-38_Crew_Return_Vehicle

HL-20
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HL-20_Personnel_Launch_System

Offline Jim

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Re: Dream Chaser making impressive progress ahead of CCDev-3
« Reply #305 on: 06/09/2012 03:41 pm »
X-34 isnt a spacecraft, just a test vehicle.  It was never intended to be a precursor to something else.

SNC chose the shape because there was data and flight history behind it.  As for x-37, that is Boeing's design and not SNC's.

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Dream Chaser making impressive progress ahead of CCDev-3
« Reply #306 on: 06/09/2012 03:49 pm »
If I might add, the HL-20/Dream Chaser “form” is very efficient in terms of interior volume, for crew, storage tanks and propulsion systems…
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob: Physics instructor, Aviator

Offline cyberayhan

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Re: Dream Chaser making impressive progress ahead of CCDev-3
« Reply #307 on: 06/09/2012 04:51 pm »
Does it matter whether its from Boeing or SNC or anyone else. X-37 has been proven. It already has two long duration flights in space as well as automated landing system.
Why not just abandon Dream Chaser and just build a larger version of X-37. Dream Chaser is still a dream, where X-37 design has been proven and it works.

I would even further that they should abandon Boeing CEV and replace it with X-37??? that will hold 7 astronauts.

Just my thoughts. This is what people were expecting and not a return to Apollo design. I would think that this would rekindle peoples imagination. One of the reasons why people are no longer excited is because of the return to Apollo design.

« Last Edit: 06/09/2012 05:09 pm by cyberayhan »

Offline Jorge

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Re: Dream Chaser making impressive progress ahead of CCDev-3
« Reply #308 on: 06/09/2012 05:10 pm »
Does it matter whether its from Boeing or SNC or anyone else.

It most certainly does. One spacecraft per company.

Quote
X-37 has been proven. It already has two long duration flights in space as well as automated landing system.

Not the X-37C, which will need to be larger to carry crew.

Quote
Why not just abandon Dream Chaser and just build a larger version of X-37. Dream Chaser is still a dream, where X-37 design has been proven and it works.

I would even further that they should abandon Boeing CEV and replace it with X-37??? that will hold 7 astronauts.

The Boeing CST-100 (not CEV) also carries 7. More to the point, CST-100 is Boeing's bid for CCiCAP. Not X-37C.

Quote
Just my thoughts. This is what people were expecting and not a return to Apollo design. I would think that this would rekindle peoples imagination.

That is not, and should not be, part of the selection criteria.
JRF

Offline cyberayhan

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Re: Dream Chaser making impressive progress ahead of CCDev-3
« Reply #309 on: 06/09/2012 05:18 pm »
On wikipedia, it says that being will be building X-37C and may complete against CST-100. Is this still ongoing or is it over? Is Boeing still going forward in building X-37C to complete against Dream Chaser?

Quote
X-37C
In 2011, Boeing announced plans for a scaled-up variant of the X-37B, referring to the spacecraft as the X-37C. The size of the X-37C would be approximately 165 to 180% of the X-37B, allowing it to transport up to six astronauts inside a pressurized compartment housed in the cargo bay. The X-37C's proposed launch vehicle is the Atlas V Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle.[52] X-37C may compete with Boeing's CST-100 space capsule.[53]

Offline Silmfeanor

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Re: Dream Chaser making impressive progress ahead of CCDev-3
« Reply #310 on: 06/09/2012 05:20 pm »
On wikipedia, it says that being will be building X-37C and may complete against CST-100. Is this still ongoing or is it over? Is Boeing still going forward in building X-37C to complete against Dream Chaser?

Quote
X-37C
In 2011, Boeing announced plans for a scaled-up variant of the X-37B, referring to the spacecraft as the X-37C. The size of the X-37C would be approximately 165 to 180% of the X-37B, allowing it to transport up to six astronauts inside a pressurized compartment housed in the cargo bay. The X-37C's proposed launch vehicle is the Atlas V Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle.[52] X-37C may compete with Boeing's CST-100 space capsule.[53]

"announced plans" is something very, very far away from bending metal.

Offline cyberayhan

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Re: Dream Chaser making impressive progress ahead of CCDev-3
« Reply #311 on: 06/09/2012 05:27 pm »
Thanks for educating me on the existence of X-37C.

Oh man, this is what they should be building. This design is soooo exiting. It is exactly what I was looking for after post shuttle replacement designs. To bad its not being furthered. I do hope that boeing goes forward with it.

http://www.spacesafetymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/mid-aft-apas-x-37b.jpg

http://www.spacesafetymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/x-37b-size-comparison.jpg

http://www.spacesafetymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/x-37b-cargo-transfer.jpg

http://www.spacesafetymagazine.com/2011/10/08/boeing-x-37c/


Offline Downix

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Re: Dream Chaser making impressive progress ahead of CCDev-3
« Reply #312 on: 06/09/2012 05:33 pm »
Thanks for educating me on the existence of X-37C.

Oh man, this is what they should be building. This design is soooo exiting. It is exactly what I was looking for after post shuttle replacement designs. To bad its not being furthered. I do hope that boeing goes forward with it.

http://www.spacesafetymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/mid-aft-apas-x-37b.jpg

http://www.spacesafetymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/x-37b-size-comparison.jpg

http://www.spacesafetymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/x-37b-cargo-transfer.jpg

http://www.spacesafetymagazine.com/2011/10/08/boeing-x-37c/


A leftover part of the Orbital Space Plane program, which was converted into Constellation in late 2004.  The switch from LEO to BEO required transitioning from a space plane to a capsule.  You can see four of the OSP designs here in this picture.  However, to cancel what we have, already in late development, to switch to an X-37 derived vehicle, would further delay the whole process.  We have good solutions, the persuit of perfection is what drove us to this point in the first place.
« Last Edit: 06/09/2012 05:47 pm by Downix »
chuck - Toilet paper has no real value? Try living with 5 other adults for 6 months in a can with no toilet paper. Man oh man. Toilet paper would be worth it's weight in gold!

Offline cyberayhan

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Re: Dream Chaser making impressive progress ahead of CCDev-3
« Reply #313 on: 06/09/2012 05:41 pm »
I see now, is this like one of the reasons why so many people hate Griffins?

Offline Go4TLI

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Re: Dream Chaser making impressive progress ahead of CCDev-3
« Reply #314 on: 06/09/2012 05:43 pm »

And you can thank Constellation for killing it.  Don't forget, the X-37 was part of the test bed for the pre-Griffin Orbital Space Plane program.  That it exists at all is due to the USAF picking up the program after NASA cancelled it.

That's a bit of mangling history.

Offline Downix

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Re: Dream Chaser making impressive progress ahead of CCDev-3
« Reply #315 on: 06/09/2012 05:48 pm »

And you can thank Constellation for killing it.  Don't forget, the X-37 was part of the test bed for the pre-Griffin Orbital Space Plane program.  That it exists at all is due to the USAF picking up the program after NASA cancelled it.

That's a bit of mangling history.
I realized that so re-edited it to be more accurate.  Fault me for writing before my second cup of coffee in the morning.
chuck - Toilet paper has no real value? Try living with 5 other adults for 6 months in a can with no toilet paper. Man oh man. Toilet paper would be worth it's weight in gold!

Offline Jim

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Re: Dream Chaser making impressive progress ahead of CCDev-3
« Reply #316 on: 06/09/2012 05:49 pm »
Does it matter whether its from Boeing or SNC or anyone else.


Yes it does, because it is up to the companies to decide what they are going to propose and not NASA.   NASA isnt flying a X-37, it if flying astronauts and the solution is up to the proposers

Offline Jim

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Re: Dream Chaser making impressive progress ahead of CCDev-3
« Reply #317 on: 06/09/2012 05:52 pm »
Thanks for educating me on the existence of X-37C.

Oh man, this is what they should be building. This design is soooo exiting. It is exactly what I was looking for after post shuttle replacement designs. To bad its not being furthered. I do hope that boeing goes forward with it.


Exciting doesn't mean squat.  Wings are not needed for the task.   Forget the shuttle paradigm

Offline Todd Martin

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Re: Dream Chaser making impressive progress ahead of CCDev-3
« Reply #318 on: 06/09/2012 06:03 pm »
Dream Chaser is elegant engineering eye candy; I would certainly prefer to ride DC than any of the other CCDev competitors.  I suspect most Astronauts would prefer flying DC as well (runway landing, 1.5G re-entry, actual flight controls, quick egress, it looks comfortable).  These traits are not insignificant for future orbital tourism. 

Hard as it may be, it would be best to be able evaluate DC on its capabilities.  I would like to know:

1) How long DC can stay docked to ISS (could it serve as a 6 month lifeboat?)
2) How does it's cargo space & hatch size compare to Dragon & CST?
3) Is there an airlock on DC to allow an EVA?     

Offline cyberayhan

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Re: Dream Chaser making impressive progress ahead of CCDev-3
« Reply #319 on: 06/09/2012 06:04 pm »
Doesn't the wings form the lifting body to maneuver and safely land the vehicle?

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