Author Topic: NG teams with Firefly: MLV & Miranda  (Read 94923 times)

Offline trimeta

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Re: NG teams with Firefly: MLV & Miranda
« Reply #240 on: 05/23/2024 12:58 am »
You're right that the military (among other customers) probably doesn't want too much industry consolidation, lest we end up in a monopoly or even duopoly situation, but between SpaceX, Rocket Lab, Northrop Grumman (in this hypothetical), and Blue Origin (likely having purchased ULA) pursuing this sort of vertically-integrated strategy, I think there will be enough competitors. Especially if Lockheed Martin buys ABL and they actually build a medium-or-larger vehicle, but that's a bit more speculative than Northrop buying Firefly.

Re: NG teams with Firefly: MLV & Miranda
« Reply #241 on: 05/24/2024 06:24 pm »
With Firefly on sale. Will NG just buy it?
Or this is too risky for defense prime?

Lockheed Martin is extremely heavily invested in ABL, and I think a few other new-space small-sat launcher companies. So it seems like this is probably not too risky for a defense prime. Of course, LM haven't outright bought ABL, so maybe this is riskier. On the other hand, ABL doesn't have any in-space projects to make money aside from their launcher, and Firefly does.
« Last Edit: 05/24/2024 06:26 pm by JEF_300 »
Wait, ∆V? This site will accept the ∆ symbol? How many times have I written out the word "delta" for no reason?

Offline XRZ.YZ

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Re: NG teams with Firefly: MLV & Miranda
« Reply #242 on: 06/06/2024 12:59 am »
With Firefly on sale. Will NG just buy it?
Or this is too risky for defense prime?

Lockheed Martin is extremely heavily invested in ABL, and I think a few other new-space small-sat launcher companies. So it seems like this is probably not too risky for a defense prime. Of course, LM haven't outright bought ABL, so maybe this is riskier. On the other hand, ABL doesn't have any in-space projects to make money aside from their launcher, and Firefly does.

LM throwing a huge order to Firefly today. Maybe they are actively thinking about this now.
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Offline trimeta

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Re: NG teams with Firefly: MLV & Miranda
« Reply #243 on: 06/06/2024 02:56 am »
With Firefly on sale. Will NG just buy it?
Or this is too risky for defense prime?

Lockheed Martin is extremely heavily invested in ABL, and I think a few other new-space small-sat launcher companies. So it seems like this is probably not too risky for a defense prime. Of course, LM haven't outright bought ABL, so maybe this is riskier. On the other hand, ABL doesn't have any in-space projects to make money aside from their launcher, and Firefly does.

LM throwing a huge order to Firefly today. Maybe they are actively thinking about this now.

Alternately, it could be that LM had a bunch of launches that were supposed to fly on ABL's RS1, but that rocket has been significantly delayed, and so LM has payloads on the ground in desperate need of a launch vehicle. And Firefly Alpha is the only even partially-available vehicle which meets their requirements.

Re: NG teams with Firefly: MLV & Miranda
« Reply #244 on: 06/07/2024 01:25 am »
Alternately, it could be that LM had a bunch of launches that were supposed to fly on ABL's RS1, but that rocket has been significantly delayed, and so LM has payloads on the ground in desperate need of a launch vehicle. And Firefly Alpha is the only even partially-available vehicle which meets their requirements.

If this is true, and it seems plausible to me, I wonder if we'll see more launch customers making moves like this. Just a couple years ago it looked like we'd have a bunch of 1-ton-to-LEO LVs coming online, and only one has actually materialized. That's got to have left some payloads in limbo somewhere.
Wait, ∆V? This site will accept the ∆ symbol? How many times have I written out the word "delta" for no reason?

Offline trimeta

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Re: NG teams with Firefly: MLV & Miranda
« Reply #245 on: 06/07/2024 01:44 am »
Alternately, it could be that LM had a bunch of launches that were supposed to fly on ABL's RS1, but that rocket has been significantly delayed, and so LM has payloads on the ground in desperate need of a launch vehicle. And Firefly Alpha is the only even partially-available vehicle which meets their requirements.

If this is true, and it seems plausible to me, I wonder if we'll see more launch customers making moves like this. Just a couple years ago it looked like we'd have a bunch of 1-ton-to-LEO LVs coming online, and only one has actually materialized. That's got to have left some payloads in limbo somewhere.

I know that Rocket Lab talked about picking up payloads from other companies which failed to launch (like Astra and Virgin Orbit), and it wouldn't surprise me if Firefly is seeing (and continues to see) a similar boon with payloads that don't fit on Electron.

Offline deltaV

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Re: NG teams with Firefly: MLV & Miranda
« Reply #246 on: 06/07/2024 02:45 am »
If this is true, and it seems plausible to me, I wonder if we'll see more launch customers making moves like this. Just a couple years ago it looked like we'd have a bunch of 1-ton-to-LEO LVs coming online, and only one has actually materialized. That's got to have left some payloads in limbo somewhere.

ABSL's RS1 will do 1350 kg to LEO and is supposed to launch this month. Stoke Space's Nova will do ~2 tonnes to LEO fully reusable starting in ~2026. (There's also Minotaur-C and Minotaur IV but they don't seem to be priced competitively enough to actually launch much so who cares.) So Firefly Alpha is the only American launch vehicle in its class that's had a successful flight right now but it won't stay that way for long.
« Last Edit: 06/07/2024 02:51 am by deltaV »

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: NG teams with Firefly: MLV & Miranda
« Reply #247 on: 06/07/2024 02:54 am »
Stoke's Nova is a lot more than 2 tonnes now. More like 3-5 tonnes reusable.
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Offline deltaV

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Re: NG teams with Firefly: MLV & Miranda
« Reply #248 on: 06/07/2024 03:13 am »
Stoke's Nova is a lot more than 2 tonnes now. More like 3-5 tonnes reusable.

You're right, I misremembered. Here's the best info on Nova that I'm aware of:

I had a copy of their PUG. They're stating for three different conditions: 3mT fully reusable, 5mT with first stage reuse but upper stage expended, and 7mT fully expendable.

Nova is ~3x bigger than Firefly Alpha but with full re-usability Nova has a good chance of being cheaper per launch and eating Alpha's lunch.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: NG teams with Firefly: MLV & Miranda
« Reply #249 on: 06/07/2024 07:03 am »
Stoke's Nova is a lot more than 2 tonnes now. More like 3-5 tonnes reusable.

You're right, I misremembered. Here's the best info on Nova that I'm aware of:

I had a copy of their PUG. They're stating for three different conditions: 3mT fully reusable, 5mT with first stage reuse but upper stage expended, and 7mT fully expendable.

Nova is ~3x bigger than Firefly Alpha but with full re-usability Nova has a good chance of being cheaper per launch and eating Alpha's lunch.
Nova has to fly first.

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Re: NG teams with Firefly: MLV & Miranda
« Reply #250 on: 06/11/2024 05:08 pm »
https://twitter.com/firefly_space/status/1800575018448846914

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After 14 hot fires on stubby engines, a full length Miranda engine is up next! Thanks to the co-located manufacturing and test facilities at our Rocket Ranch, we can test and iterate rapidly to accelerate development for our MLV engines and structures. @NorthropGrumman #PartnersInSpace

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Re: NG teams with Firefly: MLV & Miranda
« Reply #251 on: 07/15/2024 03:34 pm »
https://twitter.com/firefly_space/status/1812868752326680808

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Miranda is making moves! Just 24 hours after completing a 60 second hot fire on our full length engine, the team nailed mission duty cycle at 206 seconds, matching the longest engine burn during flight. With this milestone behind us, we're setting the pace in bringing the new medium class of launch vehicles to market. @northropgrumman

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How long have you been on the test stand?  Thats awesome!

https://twitter.com/firefly_space/status/1812871692764532991

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We broke ground on the test stand 5 in January 2023 and began testing our full chamber Miranda a month ago.

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: NG teams with Firefly: MLV & Miranda
« Reply #252 on: 07/24/2024 04:47 pm »
YT version:


Re: NG teams with Firefly: MLV & Miranda
« Reply #253 on: 07/29/2024 09:57 pm »
I was very pleased to see this. The first full duration hot-fire is really the moment when vehicle starts to feel real to me. They still have a long way to go before they get Antares 330 flying, but with this, they've definitively overcome what was probably the biggest hurdle.
Wait, ∆V? This site will accept the ∆ symbol? How many times have I written out the word "delta" for no reason?

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Re: NG teams with Firefly: MLV & Miranda
« Reply #254 on: 08/21/2024 06:38 pm »
https://twitter.com/firefly_space/status/1826327702711795772

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We're not just moving fast on our Miranda engines... our Medium Launch Vehicle (MLV) structures are also making strides! The team has taken everything they've learned from Alpha's carbon composites and scaled them up for MLV. The first stage propellant tank is now on the stand at our Rocket Ranch and ready for development testing. Then we'll qualify the full-length structure next. Exciting times ahead!

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: NG teams with Firefly: MLV & Miranda
« Reply #255 on: 08/21/2024 07:41 pm »

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Re: NG teams with Firefly: MLV & Miranda
« Reply #256 on: 09/18/2024 03:53 pm »
https://twitter.com/firefly_space/status/1836073687000248625

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Built on legacy, engineered for the future: Our Miranda engine in development utilizes the same tap-off cycle architecture as our Reaver engine with a scaled-up turbopump, fluid system, and valve tech. This flight-proven design gives us added reliability, increased performance, and 5X the thrust from Reaver to Miranda.

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Re: NG teams with Firefly: MLV & Miranda
« Reply #257 on: 10/07/2024 08:22 pm »
https://twitter.com/firefly_space/status/1843383961105641484

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Miranda is back on the stand with a big week of testing planned!

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Re: NG teams with Firefly: MLV & Miranda
« Reply #258 on: 10/15/2024 04:29 pm »
https://twitter.com/firefly_space/status/1846226561986400388

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3, 2, 1... fire! Another successful Miranda test campaign in the books at 100% power. Major kudos to the test, operations, and production teams. Our Fireflies rapidly innovate and test iteratively as we build our Medium Launch Vehicle.

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Re: NG teams with Firefly: MLV & Miranda
« Reply #259 on: 10/22/2024 05:59 pm »
https://twitter.com/firefly_space/status/1848778281690010111

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Talk about under pressure, our MLV development tank went through the wringer and passed full flight load testing! Using our newly built structural test stand, the propellant tanks were cryogenically loaded, pressurized to maximum operational levels, and applied with the limit axial load. Congrats to the design, build and test teams on another MLV milestone!

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