ESA / Roscosmos LEO Shipyard

[meiza]

A shipyard in low Earth orbit that assembles Moon or Mars ships consisting of multinational elements for propulsion, habitation and re-entry capsules is a post-International Space Station vision being drawn up by the European Space Agency and the Russian Federal Space Agency (Roscosmos).

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/05/20/326773/2025-leo-shipyard-is-new-esa-roscosmos-goal.html


Whoa, I've thought ESA has a problem of being a me-too organization copying NASA. This is an initiative to actually lead! Great!
Comments?

[ckiki lwai]

Finally we are making some post-ISS plans, if ESA wants to launch humans to space, we will need a place to fly to.

And also more clarity about the ARV, phase A will start in July, with the big decision postponed until 2011, hopefully we have another successful ATV flight and a strong growing economy (i.e. money) by then.

[meiza]

Now Flightglobal reports from the Paris Le Bourget 2009 airshow that they want to do the LEO thing with super size Arianes in just a few launches.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/06/15/327172/paris-air-show-europe-looks-beyond-just-science.html

I'm too angry to even read it, just found the summary at spacetransportnews:
http://www.hobbyspace.com/nucleus/index.php?itemid=13091

I'll note that an infrastructure in LEO like that would provide for the assembly of systems from small modules, which would allow for a move to first generation fully reusable vehicles to lower costs. However, instead, the emphasis is on building yet another large throwaway vehicle

[ckiki lwai]

If that 50 tonne Ariane really has a lot in common with the Ariane 5 ECB, it's probably cheaper than a smaller fully reusable rocket.

And I personally wouldn't mind to see a big Ariane X

[mr.columbus]

I'm too angry to even read it

Why? It's paper and paper only. Nothing of these plans will materialize, that's how ESA and the EU work when it comes to human space flight.

Realistically we will get
a. a Ariane 5 successor in the early 2020s which does nothing more than replace Ariane 5, maybe (just maybe) lower some costs per launch
b. funding for ISS operations until 2021
c. funding for a couple of flights on anything Constellation produces

That's all.

[ckiki lwai]

But if you look ESA's past you see that if the launcher has commercial applications, there is a good chance it actually gets built.
The rest of the planned spacecraft get either canceled (Hermes), reduced and part of an international project (Columbus) or delayed (ATV).

Although projects/studies like Kliper and ACTS failed, they (and this new shipyard proposal) show that ESA is more interested to work with Roscosmos, as NASA doesn't allow them to contribute in the way they did on the ISS (hardware in return for flights).