JAXA, Toyota co-operation: crewed, pressurized, fuel-cell driven lunar rover

[TrevorMonty]

One less thing NASA needs to fund for Artemis

[yg1968]

I noticed that this news from last month (April 10th) hadn't been posted in this thread yet.

NASA, Japan Advance Space Cooperation, Sign Agreement for Lunar Rover:
https://www.nasa.gov/news-release/nasa-japan-advance-space-cooperation-sign-agreement-for-lunar-rover/

An enclosed and pressurized rover will enable astronauts to travel farther and conduct science in geographically diverse areas by serving as a mobile habitat and laboratory for the astronauts to live and work for extended periods of time. It will be able to accommodate two astronauts for up to 30 days as they traverse the area near the lunar South Pole. NASA currently plans to use the pressurized rover on Artemis VII and subsequent missions over an approximate 10-year lifespan.

[yg1968]

By the time of the Artemis VII mission, it’s hoped that Japan’s space agency (JAXA) will have finished building their own rover. And this one will be pressurized, meaning astronauts will be inside, without a spacesuit, zipping about in a manner not dissimilar to how explorers use robotic submersibles to investigate the seafloor.

This rover, which is required to travel for at least 12 miles on a single charge, will be able to keep astronauts accommodated for up to 30 days, making it more of a long-range reconnaissance vehicle. “That’s a legitimate game-changer,” says Byrne. “You could live in this thing. You’re no longer limited by the consumables in your suit.” And if the astronauts need to suit up to explore on foot, they can.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/premium/article/nasa-artemis-rover-lunar-terrain-vehicle-ltv

[jstrotha0975]

12 miles on a single charge isn't much. It's 2024, can't they extend the range to at least 25 miles?

[Eric Hedman]

12 miles on a single charge isn't much. It's 2024, can't they extend the range to at least 25 miles?

The devil is always in the details. The 12 miles might be a minimum reserve to get back to the Moon base.  Some renderings of the Toyota Lunar Cruiser show an extended solar panel for recharging along the way.  So the 12 mile range might not mean what you think it does.

[wheedude]

12 miles on a single charge isn't much. It's 2024, can't they extend the range to at least 25 miles?

The devil is always in the details. The 12 miles might be a minimum reserve to get back to the Moon base.  Some renderings of the Toyota Lunar Cruiser show an extended solar panel for recharging along the way.  So the 12 mile range might not mean what you think it does.

Also consider the scale of this rover.  If it's intended to fully shelter 2 astronauts for 30 days, carry 30 days worth of consumables, offer some sort of "comfort" space (sleeping), and some sort of toilet facility (unless we plan on diapers), some sort of airlock, AND move at a decent pace on the lunar surface (over rough terrain!)?  We're talking an off-road capable RV on the Moon.  That is a lot to power, and it's probably limited on space for the batteries.  It won't be traveling fast, I'm guessing under 15mph for sure.  12 mile minimum range per charge is fine if the objective is reuse around a permanent base.  And if they can work out charging stations a distance away from base, the 12 mile limit isn't such a big deal.  This can scale, and that's the important part.

[chopsticks]

This is probably a bigger deal than people realize. This thing is literally a spacecraft on wheels. 30 days of life support is insane.

[TrevorMonty]

12 miles on a single charge isn't much. It's 2024, can't they extend the range to at least 25 miles?

The devil is always in the details. The 12 miles might be a minimum reserve to get back to the Moon base.  Some renderings of the Toyota Lunar Cruiser show an extended solar panel for recharging along the way.  So the 12 mile range might not mean what you think it does.

Also consider the scale of this rover.  If it's intended to fully shelter 2 astronauts for 30 days, carry 30 days worth of consumables, offer some sort of "comfort" space (sleeping), and some sort of toilet facility (unless we plan on diapers), some sort of airlock, AND move at a decent pace on the lunar surface (over rough terrain!)?  We're talking an off-road capable RV on the Moon.  That is a lot to power, and it's probably limited on space for the batteries.  It won't be traveling fast, I'm guessing under 15mph for sure.  12 mile minimum range per charge is fine if the objective is reuse around a permanent base.  And if they can work out charging stations a distance away from base, the 12 mile limit isn't such a big deal.  This can scale, and that's the important part.

Toyota will be using rechargeable fuelcells. More compact and lighter than batteries for energy storage levels required. Lot of technology this Lunar Cruiser uses will have applications on earth.

https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/39537662.html

[yg1968]

This document on page 9 has some images and details of JAXA's pressurized rover.

It also has a nice overview on page 11 of Japan's contributions to Artemis and the Moon to Mars program.

https://www.exploremars.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/0508_0840_-MOnoda_Going-Together.pdf

[yg1968]

This isn't much of a surprise but the Japanese pressurized rover (PR) would be delivered by an HLS-Cargo Starship (this is from a November 19, 2024 document).

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=46645.msg2661913#msg2661913

[JulesVerneATV]

years of ideas and experience from the Japanese, they had HOPE-X, cargo HTV-X, it makes sense that Porsche, Ford, Goodyear, Toyota, the South Korea and others who have experience building cars would be the ones to do this.

although Mars is a different world perhaps similar automotive technology would apply to the Martian exploration

some type of Chinese LRV "dune buggy" maybe named "TanSuo"
https://www.sohu.com/a/859214429_570536

other recent developments

Private spacecraft Blue Ghost lands successfully on moon
https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/blue-ghost-lunar-landing-1.7472896


Japanese will attempt a Moon touchdown June

[BN]

12 miles on a single charge isn't much. It's 2024, can't they extend the range to at least 25 miles?

The devil is always in the details. The 12 miles might be a minimum reserve to get back to the Moon base.  Some renderings of the Toyota Lunar Cruiser show an extended solar panel for recharging along the way.  So the 12 mile range might not mean what you think it does.

Also consider the scale of this rover.  If it's intended to fully shelter 2 astronauts for 30 days, carry 30 days worth of consumables, offer some sort of "comfort" space (sleeping), and some sort of toilet facility (unless we plan on diapers), some sort of airlock, AND move at a decent pace on the lunar surface (over rough terrain!)?  We're talking an off-road capable RV on the Moon.  That is a lot to power, and it's probably limited on space for the batteries.  It won't be traveling fast, I'm guessing under 15mph for sure.  12 mile minimum range per charge is fine if the objective is reuse around a permanent base.  And if they can work out charging stations a distance away from base, the 12 mile limit isn't such a big deal.  This can scale, and that's the important part.

Toyota will be using rechargeable fuelcells. More compact and lighter than batteries for energy storage levels required. Lot of technology this Lunar Cruiser uses will have applications on earth.

https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/39537662.html

makes no sense.

delete the high pressure cryonenic tanks, the pipes, the controls, the cell stacks, etc.

go solid state with li-ion and the solar panels, a known and proven technology.

[Kiwi53]

12 miles on a single charge isn't much. It's 2024, can't they extend the range to at least 25 miles?

The devil is always in the details. The 12 miles might be a minimum reserve to get back to the Moon base.  Some renderings of the Toyota Lunar Cruiser show an extended solar panel for recharging along the way.  So the 12 mile range might not mean what you think it does.

Also consider the scale of this rover.  If it's intended to fully shelter 2 astronauts for 30 days, carry 30 days worth of consumables, offer some sort of "comfort" space (sleeping), and some sort of toilet facility (unless we plan on diapers), some sort of airlock, AND move at a decent pace on the lunar surface (over rough terrain!)?  We're talking an off-road capable RV on the Moon.  That is a lot to power, and it's probably limited on space for the batteries.  It won't be traveling fast, I'm guessing under 15mph for sure.  12 mile minimum range per charge is fine if the objective is reuse around a permanent base.  And if they can work out charging stations a distance away from base, the 12 mile limit isn't such a big deal.  This can scale, and that's the important part.

Toyota will be using rechargeable fuelcells. More compact and lighter than batteries for energy storage levels required. Lot of technology this Lunar Cruiser uses will have applications on earth.

https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/39537662.html

makes no sense.
delete the high pressure cryonenic tanks, the pipes, the controls, the cell stacks, etc.
go solid state with li-ion and the solar panels, a known and proven technology.

It seems to me that Toyota as an organisation just doesn't believe in batteries, but they are True Believers in hydrogen technology.
They introduced an outstanding battery hybrid platform in the Prius / Aqua and have since done virtually nothing to advance that technology. In the meantime, they have invested heavily in H2 fuel cell and H2 ICE development - including recently introducing a 'revolutionary' water injected H2 ICE.

If you're getting your moon buggy from Toyota, it's going to be an LH2 powered fuel cell vehicle.

[Asteroza]

12 miles on a single charge isn't much. It's 2024, can't they extend the range to at least 25 miles?

The devil is always in the details. The 12 miles might be a minimum reserve to get back to the Moon base.  Some renderings of the Toyota Lunar Cruiser show an extended solar panel for recharging along the way.  So the 12 mile range might not mean what you think it does.

Also consider the scale of this rover.  If it's intended to fully shelter 2 astronauts for 30 days, carry 30 days worth of consumables, offer some sort of "comfort" space (sleeping), and some sort of toilet facility (unless we plan on diapers), some sort of airlock, AND move at a decent pace on the lunar surface (over rough terrain!)?  We're talking an off-road capable RV on the Moon.  That is a lot to power, and it's probably limited on space for the batteries.  It won't be traveling fast, I'm guessing under 15mph for sure.  12 mile minimum range per charge is fine if the objective is reuse around a permanent base.  And if they can work out charging stations a distance away from base, the 12 mile limit isn't such a big deal.  This can scale, and that's the important part.

Toyota will be using rechargeable fuelcells. More compact and lighter than batteries for energy storage levels required. Lot of technology this Lunar Cruiser uses will have applications on earth.

https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/39537662.html

makes no sense.
delete the high pressure cryonenic tanks, the pipes, the controls, the cell stacks, etc.
go solid state with li-ion and the solar panels, a known and proven technology.

It seems to me that Toyota as an organisation just doesn't believe in batteries, but they are True Believers in hydrogen technology.
They introduced an outstanding battery hybrid platform in the Prius / Aqua and have since done virtually nothing to advance that technology. In the meantime, they have invested heavily in H2 fuel cell and H2 ICE development - including recently introducing a 'revolutionary' water injected H2 ICE.

If you're getting your moon buggy from Toyota, it's going to be an LH2 powered fuel cell vehicle.

Toyota is wed to hydrogen on a flagship basis due to government interference, because on a macroeconomic level, the Toyota group and related subcontractor supply chain is a major employer in Japan. EV's, and to a lesser extent hybrids, have a substantially simpler design and parts count. Moving to BEV/PHEV would mean gutting most of the ICE supply chain, which is made up of lots of small to medium sized companies who are mostly sole-supplying to Toyota and can't pivot to something. By maintaining the charade of hydrogen, the government can pay lip service to those SMB's to capture votes as some measure of ICE manufacturing beyond the scope of range extenders for PHEV's would theoretically be still necessary.

There are other reasons for the fuelcell stack design for rover power though, such as heat generation. Strangely, would an LH2 rover actually be a preferred vehicle type for night ops? Battery pack swappable rovers might be preferred for day ops?

[TrevorMonty]

Fuel Cells:
Hydrogen fuel cells have a significantly higher energy density than lithium-ion batteries, both in terms of energy per unit weight (Wh/kg) and energy per unit volume (Wh/L). For example, hydrogen has a specific energy density of around 40,000 Wh/kg, while lithium-ion batteries typically have a specific energy density of around 250 Wh/kg.

Rover fuel cell also has LOX and conversion losses but still will ahead of battery. Also cryo fuels don't need energy to stay warm during lunar nite.

[sdsds]

https://global.toyota/en/mobility/technology/lunarcruiser/20250331.html
Lunar Cruiser Design Update: A newly designed 1/5 scale model will be exhibited at Expo 2025 Osaka, Kansai, Japan "Future Life Village"

[catdlr]

The latest video is from last year.  I'm sorry, but this looks way too big and heavy to me.  What LV could even carry this to the moon?

On the second video, you can see the life-size being built (at 13:00 into the video)

0:00　 Opening
0:52　 The history of the Lunar Cruiser
3:56　 4 core technologies
5:05　 Seeing is believing! Yuta Tomikawa experiences off-road driving performance
9:51　 Autonomous off-road driving used by astronauts
12:28　A life-sized Lunar Cruiser, complete at last?!
16:21　A shower on the moon?! The pursuit of "liveability"
20:15　Driving on the moon! An astonishing simulator
24:46　Regenerative Fuel Cell (RFC), the secret to power on the moon!
31:25　The president discusses the reasons for Lunar Cruiser development

[sdsds]

[...] I'm sorry, but this looks way too big and heavy to me.  What LV could even carry this to the moon?

NASA plans for at least two delivery missions with large cargo. The agency intends for SpaceX’s Starship cargo lander to deliver a pressurized rover, currently in development by JAXA (Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency), to the lunar surface
https://www.nasa.gov/news-release/nasa-plans-to-assign-missions-for-two-future-artemis-cargo-landers/

This might assume it launches on Starship as well.

[catdlr]

[...] I'm sorry, but this looks way too big and heavy to me.  What LV could even carry this to the moon?

NASA plans for at least two delivery missions with large cargo. The agency intends for SpaceX’s Starship cargo lander to deliver a pressurized rover, currently in development by JAXA (Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency), to the lunar surface
https://www.nasa.gov/news-release/nasa-plans-to-assign-missions-for-two-future-artemis-cargo-landers/

This might assume it launches on Starship as well.

Thanks, but it’s hard to visualize it lowering that from atop the ship. what I could see is the starship opening in orbit to deploy the landing vehicle and that the rover rolling off of it once on the surface as seen in the video.

[JulesVerneATV]

looks like Honda soon has a reusable rocket or space plane

if only everything came together for Jaxa and the Japanese space program

Toyota Lunar Cruiser: What Does The Land Cruiser For The Moon Look Like?
https://www.slashgear.com/1890857/toyota-lunar-cruiser-design/


Japan's ispace blames 'hard landing' on moon on Laser Range Finder
https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Japans_ispace_blames_hard_landing_on_moon_on_Laser_Range_Finder_999.html