The JAXA-Toyota Lunar rover is got to be heavier than 5 tonnes and wouldn't fitted inside EELV class payload fairing. So how is JAXA getting this rover to the Moon? Did JAXA give any hints to how they are getting the rover off Earth and landing on the Moon.
Quote from: Zed_Noir on 03/12/2019 11:36 pmThe JAXA-Toyota Lunar rover is got to be heavier than 5 tonnes and wouldn't fitted inside EELV class payload fairing. So how is JAXA getting this rover to the Moon? Did JAXA give any hints to how they are getting the rover off Earth and landing on the Moon.It will be okay as long as it can fit through the cargo door of a SpaceX Starship. A cargo lander launched from SLS would work too, but AFAIK nothing like that is currently being designed.
Quote from: RonM on 03/14/2019 10:52 pmQuote from: Zed_Noir on 03/12/2019 11:36 pmThe JAXA-Toyota Lunar rover is got to be heavier than 5 tonnes and wouldn't fitted inside EELV class payload fairing. So how is JAXA getting this rover to the Moon? Did JAXA give any hints to how they are getting the rover off Earth and landing on the Moon.It will be okay as long as it can fit through the cargo door of a SpaceX Starship. A cargo lander launched from SLS would work too, but AFAIK nothing like that is currently being designed.Human lander descent stage could be used for large payload delivery eg habitats and human rovers.
Today is the International Day of Human #SpaceFlight!! @JAXA_en & leading Japanese manufacturers are joining forces to conceptualize a manned, pressurized lunar rover with Japan’s state-of-the-art technologies for launch in 2029: global.jaxa.jp/press/2019/03/… #InnovationJapan
JAXA wants to move forward with the development. After having spend 717 Million Yen during the current fiscal year, JAXA wants to spend 2 billion Yen during FY 2022. https://www.mext.go.jp/content/20210827-mxt_kouhou02-000010167_19.pdf (page 4)
Quote from: tul on 09/06/2021 03:16 pmJAXA wants to move forward with the development. After having spend 717 Million Yen during the current fiscal year, JAXA wants to spend 2 billion Yen during FY 2022. https://www.mext.go.jp/content/20210827-mxt_kouhou02-000010167_19.pdf (page 4)All very fascinating, but how are they planning to get it to the Moon?
An enclosed and pressurized rover will enable astronauts to travel farther and conduct science in geographically diverse areas by serving as a mobile habitat and laboratory for the astronauts to live and work for extended periods of time. It will be able to accommodate two astronauts for up to 30 days as they traverse the area near the lunar South Pole. NASA currently plans to use the pressurized rover on Artemis VII and subsequent missions over an approximate 10-year lifespan.
By the time of the Artemis VII mission, it’s hoped that Japan’s space agency (JAXA) will have finished building their own rover. And this one will be pressurized, meaning astronauts will be inside, without a spacesuit, zipping about in a manner not dissimilar to how explorers use robotic submersibles to investigate the seafloor.This rover, which is required to travel for at least 12 miles on a single charge, will be able to keep astronauts accommodated for up to 30 days, making it more of a long-range reconnaissance vehicle. “That’s a legitimate game-changer,” says Byrne. “You could live in this thing. You’re no longer limited by the consumables in your suit.” And if the astronauts need to suit up to explore on foot, they can.
12 miles on a single charge isn't much. It's 2024, can't they extend the range to at least 25 miles?
Quote from: jstrotha0975 on 05/16/2024 04:56 pm12 miles on a single charge isn't much. It's 2024, can't they extend the range to at least 25 miles?The devil is always in the details. The 12 miles might be a minimum reserve to get back to the Moon base. Some renderings of the Toyota Lunar Cruiser show an extended solar panel for recharging along the way. So the 12 mile range might not mean what you think it does.
Quote from: Eric Hedman on 05/16/2024 07:07 pmQuote from: jstrotha0975 on 05/16/2024 04:56 pm12 miles on a single charge isn't much. It's 2024, can't they extend the range to at least 25 miles?The devil is always in the details. The 12 miles might be a minimum reserve to get back to the Moon base. Some renderings of the Toyota Lunar Cruiser show an extended solar panel for recharging along the way. So the 12 mile range might not mean what you think it does. Also consider the scale of this rover. If it's intended to fully shelter 2 astronauts for 30 days, carry 30 days worth of consumables, offer some sort of "comfort" space (sleeping), and some sort of toilet facility (unless we plan on diapers), some sort of airlock, AND move at a decent pace on the lunar surface (over rough terrain!)? We're talking an off-road capable RV on the Moon. That is a lot to power, and it's probably limited on space for the batteries. It won't be traveling fast, I'm guessing under 15mph for sure. 12 mile minimum range per charge is fine if the objective is reuse around a permanent base. And if they can work out charging stations a distance away from base, the 12 mile limit isn't such a big deal. This can scale, and that's the important part.
Quote from: wheedude on 05/17/2024 05:24 pmQuote from: Eric Hedman on 05/16/2024 07:07 pmQuote from: jstrotha0975 on 05/16/2024 04:56 pm12 miles on a single charge isn't much. It's 2024, can't they extend the range to at least 25 miles?The devil is always in the details. The 12 miles might be a minimum reserve to get back to the Moon base. Some renderings of the Toyota Lunar Cruiser show an extended solar panel for recharging along the way. So the 12 mile range might not mean what you think it does. Also consider the scale of this rover. If it's intended to fully shelter 2 astronauts for 30 days, carry 30 days worth of consumables, offer some sort of "comfort" space (sleeping), and some sort of toilet facility (unless we plan on diapers), some sort of airlock, AND move at a decent pace on the lunar surface (over rough terrain!)? We're talking an off-road capable RV on the Moon. That is a lot to power, and it's probably limited on space for the batteries. It won't be traveling fast, I'm guessing under 15mph for sure. 12 mile minimum range per charge is fine if the objective is reuse around a permanent base. And if they can work out charging stations a distance away from base, the 12 mile limit isn't such a big deal. This can scale, and that's the important part.Toyota will be using rechargeable fuelcells. More compact and lighter than batteries for energy storage levels required. Lot of technology this Lunar Cruiser uses will have applications on earth. https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/39537662.html
Quote from: TrevorMonty on 05/17/2024 07:53 pmQuote from: wheedude on 05/17/2024 05:24 pmQuote from: Eric Hedman on 05/16/2024 07:07 pmQuote from: jstrotha0975 on 05/16/2024 04:56 pm12 miles on a single charge isn't much. It's 2024, can't they extend the range to at least 25 miles?The devil is always in the details. The 12 miles might be a minimum reserve to get back to the Moon base. Some renderings of the Toyota Lunar Cruiser show an extended solar panel for recharging along the way. So the 12 mile range might not mean what you think it does. Also consider the scale of this rover. If it's intended to fully shelter 2 astronauts for 30 days, carry 30 days worth of consumables, offer some sort of "comfort" space (sleeping), and some sort of toilet facility (unless we plan on diapers), some sort of airlock, AND move at a decent pace on the lunar surface (over rough terrain!)? We're talking an off-road capable RV on the Moon. That is a lot to power, and it's probably limited on space for the batteries. It won't be traveling fast, I'm guessing under 15mph for sure. 12 mile minimum range per charge is fine if the objective is reuse around a permanent base. And if they can work out charging stations a distance away from base, the 12 mile limit isn't such a big deal. This can scale, and that's the important part.Toyota will be using rechargeable fuelcells. More compact and lighter than batteries for energy storage levels required. Lot of technology this Lunar Cruiser uses will have applications on earth. https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/39537662.htmlmakes no sense. delete the high pressure cryonenic tanks, the pipes, the controls, the cell stacks, etc. go solid state with li-ion and the solar panels, a known and proven technology.
Quote from: BN on 03/20/2025 04:41 pmQuote from: TrevorMonty on 05/17/2024 07:53 pmQuote from: wheedude on 05/17/2024 05:24 pmQuote from: Eric Hedman on 05/16/2024 07:07 pmQuote from: jstrotha0975 on 05/16/2024 04:56 pm12 miles on a single charge isn't much. It's 2024, can't they extend the range to at least 25 miles?The devil is always in the details. The 12 miles might be a minimum reserve to get back to the Moon base. Some renderings of the Toyota Lunar Cruiser show an extended solar panel for recharging along the way. So the 12 mile range might not mean what you think it does. Also consider the scale of this rover. If it's intended to fully shelter 2 astronauts for 30 days, carry 30 days worth of consumables, offer some sort of "comfort" space (sleeping), and some sort of toilet facility (unless we plan on diapers), some sort of airlock, AND move at a decent pace on the lunar surface (over rough terrain!)? We're talking an off-road capable RV on the Moon. That is a lot to power, and it's probably limited on space for the batteries. It won't be traveling fast, I'm guessing under 15mph for sure. 12 mile minimum range per charge is fine if the objective is reuse around a permanent base. And if they can work out charging stations a distance away from base, the 12 mile limit isn't such a big deal. This can scale, and that's the important part.Toyota will be using rechargeable fuelcells. More compact and lighter than batteries for energy storage levels required. Lot of technology this Lunar Cruiser uses will have applications on earth. https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/39537662.htmlmakes no sense. delete the high pressure cryonenic tanks, the pipes, the controls, the cell stacks, etc. go solid state with li-ion and the solar panels, a known and proven technology.It seems to me that Toyota as an organisation just doesn't believe in batteries, but they are True Believers in hydrogen technology.They introduced an outstanding battery hybrid platform in the Prius / Aqua and have since done virtually nothing to advance that technology. In the meantime, they have invested heavily in H2 fuel cell and H2 ICE development - including recently introducing a 'revolutionary' water injected H2 ICE.If you're getting your moon buggy from Toyota, it's going to be an LH2 powered fuel cell vehicle.
[...] I'm sorry, but this looks way too big and heavy to me. What LV could even carry this to the moon?
Quote from: catdlr on 04/22/2025 11:07 am[...] I'm sorry, but this looks way too big and heavy to me. What LV could even carry this to the moon?NASA plans for at least two delivery missions with large cargo. The agency intends for SpaceX’s Starship cargo lander to deliver a pressurized rover, currently in development by JAXA (Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency), to the lunar surfacehttps://www.nasa.gov/news-release/nasa-plans-to-assign-missions-for-two-future-artemis-cargo-landers/This might assume it launches on Starship as well.
looks like Honda soon has a reusable rocket or space planeif only everything came together for Jaxa and the Japanese space programToyota Lunar Cruiser: What Does The Land Cruiser For The Moon Look Like?https://www.slashgear.com/1890857/toyota-lunar-cruiser-design/Japan's ispace blames 'hard landing' on moon on Laser Range Finderhttps://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Japans_ispace_blames_hard_landing_on_moon_on_Laser_Range_Finder_999.html
At the ongoing special #DeepSpace Exhibition, a giant full-scale model of the #Crewed Pressurised Rover, a manned lunar rover under research and development by Japan, is on display for the first time in the world!
Manned Pressurised Rover (full-scale model), a manned lunar exploration vehicle.An exploration vehicle that astronauts can board and live in for about a month inside the vehicle without spacesuits while exploring the Moon. It symbolises the next generation of lunar exploration, and the full-scale model is on display for the first time in the world.
Toyota's lunar rover. You might wonder, “How on earth are they going to get something this heavy and bulky down to the moon?” But viewed from above, its front and rear form arcs, designed to fit perfectly into the rocket's fairing in a horizontal position. Are they actually serious about this?
The Lunar Cruiser was in Toyota!! It's huge. A full-scale model of the manned lunar rover currently under development by Toyota and JAXA. It's sitting right there in the entrance!
To support later missions, teams conducted a booster firing test for future rocket generations, verified new RS-25 engines, test-fired a new hybrid rocket motor to help engineering teams better understand the physics of rocket exhaust and lunar landers, as well using various mockups to test landing capabilities in various lighting conditions. Teams also conducted human-in-the-loop testing in Japan with JAXA (Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency) with a rover mockup from their agency.