Author Topic: JAXA, Toyota co-operation: crewed, pressurized, fuel-cell driven lunar rover  (Read 50947 times)

Offline jacqmans

  • Moderator
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22336
  • Houten, The Netherlands
  • Liked: 9301
  • Likes Given: 341
JAXA and Toyota Reach Agreement on Taking Up the Challenge of International Space Exploration

-Aim is to make future lunar mobility a reality-

March 12, 2019 (JST)

Tokyo, Japan, March 12, 2019-The Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA) and Toyota Motor Corporation (Toyota) agreed today to study the possibility of collaborating on international space exploration.
As a first step, JAXA and Toyota agreed to further cooperate on and accelerate their ongoing joint study of a manned, pressurized rover that employs fuel cell vehicle technologies.

Such a form of mobility is deemed necessary for human exploration activities on the lunar surface.
Even with the limited amount of energy that can be transported to the moon, the pressurized rover would have a total lunar-surface cruising range of more than 10,000 km.

International space exploration, aiming to achieve sustainable prosperity for all of humankind by expanding the domain of human activity and giving rise to intellectual properties, has its sights set on the moon and Mars.

To achieve the goals of such exploration, coordination between unmanned missions, such as the recent successful touchdown by the asteroid probe Hayabusa2 on the asteroid Ryugu, and manned missions, such as those involving humans using pressurized rovers
to conduct activities on the moon, is essential.

When it comes to challenging missions such as lunar or Martian exploration, while various countries are competing in advancing their technologies, they are also advancing their cooperative efforts.

JAXA President Hiroshi Yamakawa had this to say today about the agreement between JAXA and Toyota:
“At JAXA, we are pursuing international coordination and technological studies toward Japan’s participation in international space exploration.

We aim to contribute through leading Japanese technologies that can potentially generate spin-off benefits.
Having Toyota join us in the challenge of international space exploration greatly strengthens our confidence.
Manned rovers with pressurized cabins are an element that will play an important role in full-fledged exploration and use of the lunar surface.

For this, we would like to concentrate our country’s technological abilities and conduct technological studies.
Through our joint studies going forward, we would like to put to use Toyota’s excellent technological abilities related to mobility, and we look forward to the acceleration of our technological studies for the realization of a manned, pressurized rover.”

Toyota President Akio Toyoda said this:
“The automotive industry has long done business with the concepts of ‘hometown’ and ‘home country’ largely in mind.

However, from now on, in responding to such matters as environmental issues of global scale, the concept of ‘home planet’, from which all of us come, will become a very important concept.

Going beyond the frameworks of countries or regions, I believe that our industry, which is constantly thinking about the role it should fulfill, shares the same aspirations of international space exploration.
Furthermore, cars are used in all of Earth’s regions, and, in some regions, cars play active roles as partners for making sure that people come back alive.

And I think that coming back alive is exactly what is needed in this project.
I am extremely happy that, for this project, expectations have been placed on the thus-far developed durability and driving performance of Toyota vehicles and on our fuel cell environmental technologies.”

URL:
http://global.jaxa.jp/press/2019/03/20190312a.html
« Last Edit: 03/12/2019 05:15 pm by zubenelgenubi »
Jacques :-)

Offline TrevorMonty

Storage of H and O is important part of fuel cell rover. Here are some options for H.

http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/consumer/hydrogen/basics/storage.htm

Storage as compressed gas and as in Complex Metal Hydrides seem most promising. Not sure which is more important for rover storage space or weight.

Offline Zed_Noir

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5490
  • Canada
  • Liked: 1815
  • Likes Given: 1302
The JAXA-Toyota Lunar rover is got to be heavier than 5 tonnes and wouldn't fitted inside EELV class payload fairing. So how is JAXA getting this rover to the Moon? Did JAXA give any hints to how they are getting the rover off Earth and landing on the Moon.

Offline Phil Stooke

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1549
  • Canada
  • Liked: 1688
  • Likes Given: 3
The most sensible interpretation would be that this is intended for a time, maybe 10 to 12 years from now, when international operations are in progress at the Moon and this is Japan's contribution to the global effort.  Capabilities shared between various partners would include a large cargo lander to deliver it to the surface, and heavy launch to get it off Earth.  JAXA doesn't have to provide all that itself.  Whoever launches it, whoever lands it, they get to share in its use on the surface.  We  can expect a variety of plans for landers, habitats, surface power modules, rovers etc. to come from different places and eventually get rolled into the program, without each component being provided by a partner who can deliver it unaided.
Professor Emeritus, University of Western Ontario. Space exploration and planetary cartography, historical and present. A longtime poster on
unmannedspaceflight.com (RIP - now archived at https://umsfarchive.com/index.php/), now posting content on https://mastodon.social/@PhilStooke and https://discord.com/channels/1290524907624464394 as well as here. The Solar System ain't gonna map itself.

Offline RonM

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3340
  • Atlanta, Georgia USA
  • Liked: 2233
  • Likes Given: 1584
The JAXA-Toyota Lunar rover is got to be heavier than 5 tonnes and wouldn't fitted inside EELV class payload fairing. So how is JAXA getting this rover to the Moon? Did JAXA give any hints to how they are getting the rover off Earth and landing on the Moon.

It will be okay as long as it can fit through the cargo door of a SpaceX Starship. A cargo lander launched from SLS would work too, but AFAIK nothing like that is currently being designed.

Offline TrevorMonty

The JAXA-Toyota Lunar rover is got to be heavier than 5 tonnes and wouldn't fitted inside EELV class payload fairing. So how is JAXA getting this rover to the Moon? Did JAXA give any hints to how they are getting the rover off Earth and landing on the Moon.

It will be okay as long as it can fit through the cargo door of a SpaceX Starship. A cargo lander launched from SLS would work too, but AFAIK nothing like that is currently being designed.
Human lander descent stage could be used for large payload delivery eg habitats and human rovers.

Offline Zed_Noir

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5490
  • Canada
  • Liked: 1815
  • Likes Given: 1302
The JAXA-Toyota Lunar rover is got to be heavier than 5 tonnes and wouldn't fitted inside EELV class payload fairing. So how is JAXA getting this rover to the Moon? Did JAXA give any hints to how they are getting the rover off Earth and landing on the Moon.

It will be okay as long as it can fit through the cargo door of a SpaceX Starship. A cargo lander launched from SLS would work too, but AFAIK nothing like that is currently being designed.
Human lander descent stage could be used for large payload delivery eg habitats and human rovers.

IIRC the SpaceX Starship cargo hatch is 3.85m x 3.85m.

According to the press release the JAXA rover's nominal overall dimensions is:
Length 6.0m; width 5.2m; height 3.8m

The rover appears to be too wide to pass through the Starship cargo hatch as depicted now.

Fun factoid, the conceptual JAXA rover got a bigger frontal profile than current main battle tanks!

Offline TrevorMonty

For more information on using these Rovers see this article. No mention of RTG in Toyota rover, would be limiting for commercial applications as RTG are restricted to government agencies plus there is limited supply of fuel.

http://fiso.spiritastro.net/archivelist.htm
See 20sept2017 podcast

Offline DistantTemple

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2036
  • England
  • Liked: 1714
  • Likes Given: 2890
The JAXA-Toyota Lunar rover is got to be heavier than 5 tonnes and wouldn't fitted inside EELV class payload fairing. So how is JAXA getting this rover to the Moon? Did JAXA give any hints to how they are getting the rover off Earth and landing on the Moon.

It will be okay as long as it can fit through the cargo door of a SpaceX Starship. A cargo lander launched from SLS would work too, but AFAIK nothing like that is currently being designed.
Human lander descent stage could be used for large payload delivery eg habitats and human rovers.

Transport to Mars: A mad idea: Jaxa/Toyota purchase outright (or similar contractual arrangement) a "chomper" SS modified to have the chomper door detachable on Mars, and a suitable crane designed build and installed for unloading of the rover and other payloads. The rover could be packed with supplies for its first journey, and there would be room on the flight for a backup, and comprehensive parts, consumables, extra instrumentation for future explorations and projects etc.
We can always grow new new dendrites. Reach out and make connections and your world will burst with new insights. Then repose in consciousness.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57753
  • UK
    • Plan 28
  • Liked: 94844
  • Likes Given: 44764
https://twitter.com/japangov/status/1249215798456901632

Quote
Today is the International Day of Human #SpaceFlight!! @JAXA_en & leading Japanese manufacturers are joining forces to conceptualize a manned, pressurized lunar rover with Japan’s state-of-the-art technologies for launch in 2029: global.jaxa.jp/press/2019/03/… #InnovationJapan

Offline jacqmans

  • Moderator
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22336
  • Houten, The Netherlands
  • Liked: 9301
  • Likes Given: 341
JAXA and Toyota Announce “LUNAR CRUISER” As Nickname for Manned Pressurized Rover

https://global.jaxa.jp/press/2020/08/20200828-1_e.html

August 28, 2020 (JST)

The Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA) and Toyota Motor Corporation (Toyota) announced today that they have named the manned pressurized rover which is currently under joint research by JAXA and Toyota the “LUNAR CRUISER” as “nickname”. JAXA and Toyota previously announced and have been conducting joint research on a manned, pressurized lunar rover that uses fuel cell electric vehicle (FCEV) technologies.

The nickname LUNAR CRUISER was chosen because of the familiar feeling it offers the people involved in the development and manufacture of the vehicle prototype as part of the joint research project as well as the familiarity it will provide the general public. The name, which references the Toyota Land Cruiser SUV, was decided upon based on the quality, durability, and reliability expected of the pressurized lunar rover, and the concept that Toyota has long held to for the Land Cruiser, which was for people to “come back alive,” especially true for the lunar rover as it will be traversing the harsh environment of the moon’s surface.

JAXA and Toyota signed a joint research agreement to work on a manned pressurized lunar rover last year, on June 13, 2019, with an expected launch date in the latter half of the 2020s. Together, they are working to manufacture test parts for each technological element, and the prototype rover itself, during this fiscal year (FY2020). The work involves the use of simulations to confirm power and heat dissipation performance while driving, the manufacture and assessment of prototype tires, and the use of virtual reality and full-scale models to consider the layout of equipment in the cabin of the LUNAR CRUISER.

Furthermore, as part of their efforts to create new partners with “Team Japan,” JAXA and Toyota have been discussing laterally with a variety of industries via study meetings based on the theme of “a lunar society pioneered by the manned pressurized rover” (also known as Team Japan Study Meeting)*. The meetings focus on how the manned pressurized rover becomes the starting point of a vision of a future lunar surface-based society while discussing the challenges associated with the creation of this type of society.

JAXA and Toyota will gather the knowledge, experience and technological capabilities of enterprises from across a variety of industries in their attempt to realize their dream of sustaining continuous activities on the surface of the moon as “Team Japan,” moving forward.

* The Team Japan Working Group, led by JAXA, Toyota and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Ltd., was launched in August 2019. Three working groups and one session on the co-creation of a lunar society have been held to date, with about 100 companies registered.


Related Links
Study meetings based on the theme of “a lunar society pioneered by the manned pressurized rover” (Japanese Only)
https://iss.jaxa.jp/future/lunar/index.html

National Research & Development Agency
Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency
Toyota Motor Corporation
Jacques :-)

Offline TrevorMonty

Cool sounds like Japan's industry is getting onboard. Pressurized rover like this is essential human exploration of moon.
Now all we need is for ESA and others to tackle permanent habitat structures.

Offline tul

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 165
  • Liked: 47
  • Likes Given: 2
JAXA wants to move forward with the development. After having spend 717 Million Yen during the current fiscal year, JAXA wants to spend 2 billion Yen during FY 2022.

https://www.mext.go.jp/content/20210827-mxt_kouhou02-000010167_19.pdf (page 4)

Offline eric z

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 606
  • Liked: 530
  • Likes Given: 2494
   I need to see if "Pimp My Ride" or "Counting Cars" could convert my 2018 Toyota Sienna into a facsimile of the Lunar Cruiser. Put some solar panels on the sides... 8)

Offline Slarty1080

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2894
  • UK
  • Liked: 1932
  • Likes Given: 847
JAXA wants to move forward with the development. After having spend 717 Million Yen during the current fiscal year, JAXA wants to spend 2 billion Yen during FY 2022.

https://www.mext.go.jp/content/20210827-mxt_kouhou02-000010167_19.pdf (page 4)
All very fascinating, but how are they planning to get it to the Moon?
My optimistic hope is that it will become cool to really think about things... rather than just doing reactive bullsh*t based on no knowledge (Brian Cox)

Offline DanClemmensen

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9285
  • Earth (currently)
  • Liked: 7468
  • Likes Given: 3211
JAXA wants to move forward with the development. After having spend 717 Million Yen during the current fiscal year, JAXA wants to spend 2 billion Yen during FY 2022.

https://www.mext.go.jp/content/20210827-mxt_kouhou02-000010167_19.pdf (page 4)
All very fascinating, but how are they planning to get it to the Moon?
Lunar payloads like this rover are to be carried by CLPS landers. Big loads like this one would be carried by the second-round heavy landers. SpaceX is a qualified CLPS vendor. Apparently SpaceX intends to use an uncrewed cargo version of Starship HLS. There is no requirement that these lander be able to leave the lunar surface after delivery of the landed payload.

Offline Zed_Noir

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5490
  • Canada
  • Liked: 1815
  • Likes Given: 1302
JAXA wants to move forward with the development. After having spend 717 Million Yen during the current fiscal year, JAXA wants to spend 2 billion Yen during FY 2022.

https://www.mext.go.jp/content/20210827-mxt_kouhou02-000010167_19.pdf (page 4)
All very fascinating, but how are they planning to get it to the Moon?



According to the last press release JAXA rover's nominal overall dimensions is: Length 6.0m; width 5.2m; height 3.8m.


In theory, a Starship with modified payload bay could do it. The Toyota Lunar Rover will sit on it's tail vertically in a deployment cradle. The cradle will move sideways out from the payload bay with a beam crane and hoisted down to the Lunar surface. Then the cradle will rotate until it is horizontal so the rover can drive off.

Offline tul

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 165
  • Liked: 47
  • Likes Given: 2
The whole budget for the rover for next fiscal year is 2 billion yen. So it is moving forward to development.

https://www.mext.go.jp/content/20211223-mxt_kouhou02-000017672_1.pdf page 66
« Last Edit: 12/25/2021 01:15 pm by tul »

Online MickQ

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1076
  • Atherton, Australia.
  • Liked: 306
  • Likes Given: 826
Anyone seen or heard any updates on this project ?

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19466
  • Liked: 8825
  • Likes Given: 3583

Offline TrevorMonty

One less thing NASA needs to fund for Artemis

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19466
  • Liked: 8825
  • Likes Given: 3583
I noticed that this news from last month (April 10th) hadn't been posted in this thread yet.

NASA, Japan Advance Space Cooperation, Sign Agreement for Lunar Rover:
https://www.nasa.gov/news-release/nasa-japan-advance-space-cooperation-sign-agreement-for-lunar-rover/

Quote from: NASA
An enclosed and pressurized rover will enable astronauts to travel farther and conduct science in geographically diverse areas by serving as a mobile habitat and laboratory for the astronauts to live and work for extended periods of time. It will be able to accommodate two astronauts for up to 30 days as they traverse the area near the lunar South Pole. NASA currently plans to use the pressurized rover on Artemis VII and subsequent missions over an approximate 10-year lifespan.
« Last Edit: 05/16/2024 04:07 pm by yg1968 »

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19466
  • Liked: 8825
  • Likes Given: 3583
Quote from: the article
By the time of the Artemis VII mission, it’s hoped that Japan’s space agency (JAXA) will have finished building their own rover. And this one will be pressurized, meaning astronauts will be inside, without a spacesuit, zipping about in a manner not dissimilar to how explorers use robotic submersibles to investigate the seafloor.

This rover, which is required to travel for at least 12 miles on a single charge, will be able to keep astronauts accommodated for up to 30 days, making it more of a long-range reconnaissance vehicle. “That’s a legitimate game-changer,” says Byrne. “You could live in this thing. You’re no longer limited by the consumables in your suit.” And if the astronauts need to suit up to explore on foot, they can.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/premium/article/nasa-artemis-rover-lunar-terrain-vehicle-ltv
« Last Edit: 05/16/2024 10:13 pm by yg1968 »

Offline jstrotha0975

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 825
  • United States
  • Liked: 459
  • Likes Given: 3734
12 miles on a single charge isn't much. It's 2024, can't they extend the range to at least 25 miles?

Offline Eric Hedman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2641
  • The birthplace of the solid body electric guitar
  • Liked: 2336
  • Likes Given: 1480
12 miles on a single charge isn't much. It's 2024, can't they extend the range to at least 25 miles?
The devil is always in the details. The 12 miles might be a minimum reserve to get back to the Moon base.  Some renderings of the Toyota Lunar Cruiser show an extended solar panel for recharging along the way.  So the 12 mile range might not mean what you think it does.

Offline wheedude

  • Member
  • Posts: 36
  • Cullowhee, NC
  • Liked: 28
  • Likes Given: 175
12 miles on a single charge isn't much. It's 2024, can't they extend the range to at least 25 miles?
The devil is always in the details. The 12 miles might be a minimum reserve to get back to the Moon base.  Some renderings of the Toyota Lunar Cruiser show an extended solar panel for recharging along the way.  So the 12 mile range might not mean what you think it does.


Also consider the scale of this rover.  If it's intended to fully shelter 2 astronauts for 30 days, carry 30 days worth of consumables, offer some sort of "comfort" space (sleeping), and some sort of toilet facility (unless we plan on diapers), some sort of airlock, AND move at a decent pace on the lunar surface (over rough terrain!)?  We're talking an off-road capable RV on the Moon.  That is a lot to power, and it's probably limited on space for the batteries.  It won't be traveling fast, I'm guessing under 15mph for sure.  12 mile minimum range per charge is fine if the objective is reuse around a permanent base.  And if they can work out charging stations a distance away from base, the 12 mile limit isn't such a big deal.  This can scale, and that's the important part.

Offline chopsticks

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1202
  • Québec, Canada
  • Liked: 1202
  • Likes Given: 172
This is probably a bigger deal than people realize. This thing is literally a spacecraft on wheels. 30 days of life support is insane.

Offline TrevorMonty

12 miles on a single charge isn't much. It's 2024, can't they extend the range to at least 25 miles?
The devil is always in the details. The 12 miles might be a minimum reserve to get back to the Moon base.  Some renderings of the Toyota Lunar Cruiser show an extended solar panel for recharging along the way.  So the 12 mile range might not mean what you think it does.


Also consider the scale of this rover.  If it's intended to fully shelter 2 astronauts for 30 days, carry 30 days worth of consumables, offer some sort of "comfort" space (sleeping), and some sort of toilet facility (unless we plan on diapers), some sort of airlock, AND move at a decent pace on the lunar surface (over rough terrain!)?  We're talking an off-road capable RV on the Moon.  That is a lot to power, and it's probably limited on space for the batteries.  It won't be traveling fast, I'm guessing under 15mph for sure.  12 mile minimum range per charge is fine if the objective is reuse around a permanent base.  And if they can work out charging stations a distance away from base, the 12 mile limit isn't such a big deal.  This can scale, and that's the important part.
Toyota will be using rechargeable fuelcells. More compact and lighter than batteries for energy storage levels required. Lot of technology this Lunar Cruiser uses will have applications on earth.

https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/39537662.html

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19466
  • Liked: 8825
  • Likes Given: 3583
This document on page 9 has some images and details of JAXA's pressurized rover.

It also has a nice overview on page 11 of Japan's contributions to Artemis and the Moon to Mars program.

https://www.exploremars.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/0508_0840_-MOnoda_Going-Together.pdf

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19466
  • Liked: 8825
  • Likes Given: 3583
This isn't much of a surprise but the Japanese pressurized rover (PR) would be delivered by an HLS-Cargo Starship (this is from a November 19, 2024 document).

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=46645.msg2661913#msg2661913

Offline JulesVerneATV

  • Regular
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 875
  • Liked: 113
  • Likes Given: 17
years of ideas and experience from the Japanese, they had HOPE-X, cargo HTV-X, it makes sense that Porsche, Ford, Goodyear, Toyota, the South Korea and others who have experience building cars would be the ones to do this.

although Mars is a different world perhaps similar automotive technology would apply to the Martian exploration

some type of Chinese LRV "dune buggy" maybe named "TanSuo"
https://www.sohu.com/a/859214429_570536

other recent developments

Private spacecraft Blue Ghost lands successfully on moon
https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/blue-ghost-lunar-landing-1.7472896


Japanese will attempt a Moon touchdown June

Offline BN

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 231
  • Earth
  • Liked: 111
  • Likes Given: 23
12 miles on a single charge isn't much. It's 2024, can't they extend the range to at least 25 miles?
The devil is always in the details. The 12 miles might be a minimum reserve to get back to the Moon base.  Some renderings of the Toyota Lunar Cruiser show an extended solar panel for recharging along the way.  So the 12 mile range might not mean what you think it does.


Also consider the scale of this rover.  If it's intended to fully shelter 2 astronauts for 30 days, carry 30 days worth of consumables, offer some sort of "comfort" space (sleeping), and some sort of toilet facility (unless we plan on diapers), some sort of airlock, AND move at a decent pace on the lunar surface (over rough terrain!)?  We're talking an off-road capable RV on the Moon.  That is a lot to power, and it's probably limited on space for the batteries.  It won't be traveling fast, I'm guessing under 15mph for sure.  12 mile minimum range per charge is fine if the objective is reuse around a permanent base.  And if they can work out charging stations a distance away from base, the 12 mile limit isn't such a big deal.  This can scale, and that's the important part.
Toyota will be using rechargeable fuelcells. More compact and lighter than batteries for energy storage levels required. Lot of technology this Lunar Cruiser uses will have applications on earth.

https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/39537662.html


makes no sense.

delete the high pressure cryonenic tanks, the pipes, the controls, the cell stacks, etc.

go solid state with li-ion and the solar panels, a known and proven technology.

Offline Kiwi53

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 207
  • New Zealand
  • Liked: 200
  • Likes Given: 309
12 miles on a single charge isn't much. It's 2024, can't they extend the range to at least 25 miles?
The devil is always in the details. The 12 miles might be a minimum reserve to get back to the Moon base.  Some renderings of the Toyota Lunar Cruiser show an extended solar panel for recharging along the way.  So the 12 mile range might not mean what you think it does.


Also consider the scale of this rover.  If it's intended to fully shelter 2 astronauts for 30 days, carry 30 days worth of consumables, offer some sort of "comfort" space (sleeping), and some sort of toilet facility (unless we plan on diapers), some sort of airlock, AND move at a decent pace on the lunar surface (over rough terrain!)?  We're talking an off-road capable RV on the Moon.  That is a lot to power, and it's probably limited on space for the batteries.  It won't be traveling fast, I'm guessing under 15mph for sure.  12 mile minimum range per charge is fine if the objective is reuse around a permanent base.  And if they can work out charging stations a distance away from base, the 12 mile limit isn't such a big deal.  This can scale, and that's the important part.
Toyota will be using rechargeable fuelcells. More compact and lighter than batteries for energy storage levels required. Lot of technology this Lunar Cruiser uses will have applications on earth.

https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/39537662.html

makes no sense.
delete the high pressure cryonenic tanks, the pipes, the controls, the cell stacks, etc.
go solid state with li-ion and the solar panels, a known and proven technology.

It seems to me that Toyota as an organisation just doesn't believe in batteries, but they are True Believers in hydrogen technology.
They introduced an outstanding battery hybrid platform in the Prius / Aqua and have since done virtually nothing to advance that technology. In the meantime, they have invested heavily in H2 fuel cell and H2 ICE development - including recently introducing a 'revolutionary' water injected H2 ICE.

If you're getting your moon buggy from Toyota, it's going to be an LH2 powered fuel cell vehicle.
« Last Edit: 03/20/2025 11:08 pm by Kiwi53 »

Offline Asteroza

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3127
  • Liked: 1211
  • Likes Given: 35
12 miles on a single charge isn't much. It's 2024, can't they extend the range to at least 25 miles?
The devil is always in the details. The 12 miles might be a minimum reserve to get back to the Moon base.  Some renderings of the Toyota Lunar Cruiser show an extended solar panel for recharging along the way.  So the 12 mile range might not mean what you think it does.


Also consider the scale of this rover.  If it's intended to fully shelter 2 astronauts for 30 days, carry 30 days worth of consumables, offer some sort of "comfort" space (sleeping), and some sort of toilet facility (unless we plan on diapers), some sort of airlock, AND move at a decent pace on the lunar surface (over rough terrain!)?  We're talking an off-road capable RV on the Moon.  That is a lot to power, and it's probably limited on space for the batteries.  It won't be traveling fast, I'm guessing under 15mph for sure.  12 mile minimum range per charge is fine if the objective is reuse around a permanent base.  And if they can work out charging stations a distance away from base, the 12 mile limit isn't such a big deal.  This can scale, and that's the important part.
Toyota will be using rechargeable fuelcells. More compact and lighter than batteries for energy storage levels required. Lot of technology this Lunar Cruiser uses will have applications on earth.

https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/39537662.html

makes no sense.
delete the high pressure cryonenic tanks, the pipes, the controls, the cell stacks, etc.
go solid state with li-ion and the solar panels, a known and proven technology.

It seems to me that Toyota as an organisation just doesn't believe in batteries, but they are True Believers in hydrogen technology.
They introduced an outstanding battery hybrid platform in the Prius / Aqua and have since done virtually nothing to advance that technology. In the meantime, they have invested heavily in H2 fuel cell and H2 ICE development - including recently introducing a 'revolutionary' water injected H2 ICE.

If you're getting your moon buggy from Toyota, it's going to be an LH2 powered fuel cell vehicle.

Toyota is wed to hydrogen on a flagship basis due to government interference, because on a macroeconomic level, the Toyota group and related subcontractor supply chain is a major employer in Japan. EV's, and to a lesser extent hybrids, have a substantially simpler design and parts count. Moving to BEV/PHEV would mean gutting most of the ICE supply chain, which is made up of lots of small to medium sized companies who are mostly sole-supplying to Toyota and can't pivot to something. By maintaining the charade of hydrogen, the government can pay lip service to those SMB's to capture votes as some measure of ICE manufacturing beyond the scope of range extenders for PHEV's would theoretically be still necessary.

There are other reasons for the fuelcell stack design for rover power though, such as heat generation. Strangely, would an LH2 rover actually be a preferred vehicle type for night ops? Battery pack swappable rovers might be preferred for day ops?

Offline TrevorMonty


Fuel Cells:
Hydrogen fuel cells have a significantly higher energy density than lithium-ion batteries, both in terms of energy per unit weight (Wh/kg) and energy per unit volume (Wh/L). For example, hydrogen has a specific energy density of around 40,000 Wh/kg, while lithium-ion batteries typically have a specific energy density of around 250 Wh/kg.

Rover fuel cell also has LOX and conversion losses but still will ahead of battery. Also cryo fuels don't need energy to stay warm during lunar nite.

Offline sdsds

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8564
  • “With peace and hope for all mankind.”
  • Seattle
  • Liked: 3009
  • Likes Given: 2741
https://global.toyota/en/mobility/technology/lunarcruiser/20250331.html
Lunar Cruiser Design Update: A newly designed 1/5 scale model will be exhibited at Expo 2025 Osaka, Kansai, Japan "Future Life Village"

— 𝐬𝐝𝐒𝐝𝐬 —

Online catdlr

  • She will always be part of me.
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27095
  • Enthusiast since the Redstone and Thunderbirds
  • Marina del Rey, California, USA
  • Liked: 22200
  • Likes Given: 13355
The latest video is from last year.  I'm sorry, but this looks way too big and heavy to me.  What LV could even carry this to the moon?

On the second video, you can see the life-size being built (at 13:00 into the video)

0:00  Opening
0:52  The history of the Lunar Cruiser
3:56  4 core technologies
5:05  Seeing is believing! Yuta Tomikawa experiences off-road driving performance
9:51  Autonomous off-road driving used by astronauts
12:28 A life-sized Lunar Cruiser, complete at last?!
16:21 A shower on the moon?! The pursuit of "liveability"
20:15 Driving on the moon! An astonishing simulator
24:46 Regenerative Fuel Cell (RFC), the secret to power on the moon!
31:25 The president discusses the reasons for Lunar Cruiser development





« Last Edit: 04/22/2025 11:13 am by catdlr »
It's Tony De La Rosa... I don't create this stuff; I just report it.  I also cover launches and trim post (Tony TrimmerHand).

Offline sdsds

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8564
  • “With peace and hope for all mankind.”
  • Seattle
  • Liked: 3009
  • Likes Given: 2741
[...] I'm sorry, but this looks way too big and heavy to me.  What LV could even carry this to the moon?

NASA plans for at least two delivery missions with large cargo. The agency intends for SpaceX’s Starship cargo lander to deliver a pressurized rover, currently in development by JAXA (Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency), to the lunar surface
https://www.nasa.gov/news-release/nasa-plans-to-assign-missions-for-two-future-artemis-cargo-landers/

This might assume it launches on Starship as well.
— 𝐬𝐝𝐒𝐝𝐬 —

Online catdlr

  • She will always be part of me.
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27095
  • Enthusiast since the Redstone and Thunderbirds
  • Marina del Rey, California, USA
  • Liked: 22200
  • Likes Given: 13355
[...] I'm sorry, but this looks way too big and heavy to me.  What LV could even carry this to the moon?

NASA plans for at least two delivery missions with large cargo. The agency intends for SpaceX’s Starship cargo lander to deliver a pressurized rover, currently in development by JAXA (Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency), to the lunar surface
https://www.nasa.gov/news-release/nasa-plans-to-assign-missions-for-two-future-artemis-cargo-landers/

This might assume it launches on Starship as well.

Thanks, but it’s hard to visualize it lowering that from atop the ship. what I could see is the starship opening in orbit to deploy the landing vehicle and that the rover rolling off of it once on the surface as seen in the video.
It's Tony De La Rosa... I don't create this stuff; I just report it.  I also cover launches and trim post (Tony TrimmerHand).

Offline JulesVerneATV

  • Regular
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 875
  • Liked: 113
  • Likes Given: 17
looks like Honda soon has a reusable rocket or space plane

if only everything came together for Jaxa and the Japanese space program

Toyota Lunar Cruiser: What Does The Land Cruiser For The Moon Look Like?
https://www.slashgear.com/1890857/toyota-lunar-cruiser-design/


Japan's ispace blames 'hard landing' on moon on Laser Range Finder
https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Japans_ispace_blames_hard_landing_on_moon_on_Laser_Range_Finder_999.html

Offline TrevorMonty

looks like Honda soon has a reusable rocket or space plane

if only everything came together for Jaxa and the Japanese space program

Toyota Lunar Cruiser: What Does The Land Cruiser For The Moon Look Like?
https://www.slashgear.com/1890857/toyota-lunar-cruiser-design/


Japan's ispace blames 'hard landing' on moon on Laser Range Finder
https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Japans_ispace_blames_hard_landing_on_moon_on_Laser_Range_Finder_999.html
Honda is years away from small RLV. That was only demostration of vertical land on sub orbital test vehicle, not lot different from ones Masten use to fly. A RLV and capsule capable of flying humans would require $Bs and 5-10yrs.

Offline JSz

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 491
  • Liked: 340
  • Likes Given: 238
https://twitter.com/miraikan/status/1946495229126951067

Translation:
Quote
At the ongoing special #DeepSpace Exhibition, a giant full-scale model of the #Crewed Pressurised Rover, a manned lunar rover under research and development by Japan, is on display for the first time in the world!

See also: https://www.miraikan.jst.go.jp/exhibitions/spexhibition/deep-space.html

Translation:
Quote
Manned Pressurised Rover (full-scale model), a manned lunar exploration vehicle.

An exploration vehicle that astronauts can board and live in for about a month inside the vehicle without spacesuits while exploring the Moon. It symbolises the next generation of lunar exploration, and the full-scale model is on display for the first time in the world.

Offline Tywin

Amazing Rover!! super jaxa :)
The knowledge is power...Everything is connected...
The Turtle continues at a steady pace ...

Offline JSz

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 491
  • Liked: 340
  • Likes Given: 238
At the Deep Space Exhibition in Japan, a full-scale model of Toyota's crewed, pressurised lunar rover was on display:

https://twitter.com/nojiri_h/status/1989598267961913356

Quote
Toyota's lunar rover. You might wonder, “How on earth are they going to get something this heavy and bulky down to the moon?” But viewed from above, its front and rear form arcs, designed to fit perfectly into the rocket's fairing in a horizontal position. Are they actually serious about this?

https://twitter.com/ntv_space/status/1991805925846606011

Quote
The Lunar Cruiser was in Toyota!! It's huge. A full-scale model of the manned lunar rover currently under development by Toyota and JAXA. It's sitting right there in the entrance!

Translations from Japanese using DeepL.

Offline AndrewM

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1359
  • United States
  • Liked: 1408
  • Likes Given: 1287
NASA Ignites New Golden Age of Exploration, Innovation in 2025 [Dec. 16]

Quote
To support later missions, teams conducted a booster firing test for future rocket generations, verified new RS-25 engines, test-fired a new hybrid rocket motor to help engineering teams better understand the physics of rocket exhaust and lunar landers, as well using various mockups to test landing capabilities in various lighting conditions. Teams also conducted human-in-the-loop testing in Japan with JAXA (Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency) with a rover mockup from their agency.

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
1