Quote from: savantu on 08/26/2021 09:27 amBut is it just a pissing match ? The theme of the discussion is to influence contract decision making at NASA and hamper Spx /space market competition. You have undue influence on NASA through the White House. Surely that must be of public and even legal interest. If Hasan conveyed the messages to WH staff that is criminal.Yeah, "pissing match" doesn't properly describe it; maybe "playing grab-ass", or whatever your preference for describing ostensibly juvenile behavior lacking common sense. In any case, unclear how to connect the rest of your dots..."Undue influence on NASA through the White House"? Certainly White House has influence with regards to NASA. What would constitute "undue" and why? Also, Hasan is a lobbyist (no secret). He gets paid for bending the ear of anyone in a position to advance his client's position, including those in Congress and the White House. How does that rise to the level of "criminal" and why?edit: Asking why as those communications are almost entirely opinion, innuendo and mud-slinging with few-to-no facts.
But is it just a pissing match ? The theme of the discussion is to influence contract decision making at NASA and hamper Spx /space market competition. You have undue influence on NASA through the White House. Surely that must be of public and even legal interest. If Hasan conveyed the messages to WH staff that is criminal.
The gist of the emails suggest that political WH officials should award contracts to ULA (or deny them to SX) regardless of merit or other requirements. That would be illegal. The BO legal suit is essentially claiming such a thingThe emails would be evidence of a conspiracy to commit such an impropriety. I am not a lawyer, But I think this is a rather weak case without any other evidence
...tl;dr The answer to "are these emails/documents real or fake" could be "yes".
Until ULA comes back with a more definitive response, I'm going to be wary of the complete authenticity of this leak, for two reasons:1) It was released on a forum dedicated to sale of stolen data. However not only was it posted for free, it was not released as a 'teaser' of a larger leak of actual valuable data (e.g. proprietary information) that someone with access to ULA's internal emails would have access to.
Quote from: edzieba on 08/27/2021 11:10 am...tl;dr The answer to "are these emails/documents real or fake" could be "yes".And if the answer is "yes"?
Wait – we have no way of knowing whether or not this is “a ‘teaser’ of a larger leak”.
Quote from: joek on 08/27/2021 04:18 pmQuote from: edzieba on 08/27/2021 11:10 am...tl;dr The answer to "are these emails/documents real or fake" could be "yes".And if the answer is "yes"? Then it means the 'or' was an inclusive or rather than an exclusive or. Or in other words, that the leaked emails and documents can be a combination of both real and fake. Skilled lobbyists would know how to skirt right up to the line of acceptable when it comes to making claims and accusations against competitors. It would take very little modification to push those claims over that line....
Wait – we have no way of knowing whether or not this is “a ‘teaser’ of a larger leak”. ULA are being mum about it. For all we know the hacker(s) could be actively extorting them now, threatening the release of additional damaging materials and communication.
As I wrote earlier, markings in the leaked messages suggest to me that it is is more likely to have leaked from the other end of the conversation (the union end), not from ULA. I'm surprised that nobody reporting on this has mentioned asking the union about this.
Quote from: launchwatcher on 08/28/2021 06:40 pmAs I wrote earlier, markings in the leaked messages suggest to me that it is is more likely to have leaked from the other end of the conversation (the union end), not from ULA. I'm surprised that nobody reporting on this has mentioned asking the union about this.Was also noted in other posts-forums, including the original poster (over on reddit) IIRC. Think the short answer is: It does not matter and no one cares. (Although expect conversations are ongoing between ULA and IAM as to IAM's security.)If the contents of those communications are valid, so what? The anti-SpaceX position by ULA and IAM (among others) is no secret. The only thing these communications do is shine a bit more light on those activities--none of which appear to illegal.Again, a lot of innuendo and mud-slinging, but nothing we have not seen before in more public venues (if not quite so bald-faced).
I largely agree with this assessment but if I were Tory, the slandering of NASA leadership, a major client for ULA, would require at least an apology and probably a sacrificial head - Robbie Sabathier would have to go.
It's unclear whether the emails will trigger anything politically, but ironically they cement something that has been general knowledge for years: Just how far removed from reality legacy aerospace management has fallen, and lost all touch with the pace and direction of innovation in their industry. ...
Quote from: tssp_art on 08/28/2021 10:33 pmI largely agree with this assessment but if I were Tory, the slandering of NASA leadership, a major client for ULA, would require at least an apology and probably a sacrificial head - Robbie Sabathier would have to go.Agree that Robbie is toast, especially given her position as ULA Vice President, Government Operations and Communications. Her comm's are too explicit and without the "my sources report" excuses. Expect as you suggest, likely some uncomfortable conversations between ULA and NASA leadership. Also expect all that will occur out of the public eye, and that in a few months, few if any will remember.
For someone with a Juris Doctorate degree, it seems particularly foolish.
Article in Washinton Examiner:https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/anti-spacex-lobbying-campaign-elon-musk-biden-beef