Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 FT - SES-9 - March 4, 2016 - DISCUSSION  (Read 1087740 times)

Offline MattMason

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 FT - SES-9 - March 4, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #780 on: 02/23/2016 11:07 pm »
What's up with SpaceX's pre-launch press conferences anymore?  I've not been aware of any since approximately CRS-7.  Am I missing them or are they not having them or did they go somewhat underground? ...Or are they only held for NASA payloaded flights?  I miss the semi-comedy of seeing Hans Koenigsman having to take the bulk of the questions related to the ASDS landing attempt which isn't really his thing.

Those pressers do seem to appear only for NASA payloads. A hint may be on who is broadcasting it. If NASA isn't broadcasting it, generally, no presser.
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Online matthewkantar

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 FT - SES-9 - March 4, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #781 on: 02/23/2016 11:33 pm »
Pics of static fire on SpaceX's Instagram and Facebook.

Enjoy, Matthew

Seems like there are two rounded rectangles on either side of the leg here, a little bit inset.  Previous flights' legs had a roughly square protrusion (small fairing?) here.
It also seems they are very faintly visible on this image tweeted by the 45th Space Wing.
https://twitter.com/45thSpaceWing/status/701891806255046657

Tape. But I am noticing this string/wire first time.

Aha!  The dangers of low resolution strike again...

Offline OxCartMark

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 FT - SES-9 - March 4, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #782 on: 02/24/2016 03:07 am »
Pics of static fire on SpaceX's Instagram and Facebook.

Enjoy, Matthew

Seems like there are two rounded rectangles on either side of the leg here, a little bit inset.  Previous flights' legs had a roughly square protrusion (small fairing?) here.
It also seems they are very faintly visible on this image tweeted by the 45th Space Wing.
https://twitter.com/45thSpaceWing/status/701891806255046657

Tape. But I am noticing this string/wire first time.

Aha!  The dangers of low resolution strike again...

So what I seem to be seeing is two openings in the legs which are each covered by blow off covers of the type that are around the base of the payload fairing (if I recall what those look like, can't find an image now for comparison).  Those covers if they are what they may be are to keep rain, birds, etc. out but will blow off when the breeze gets intense.  There are wires running vertically into that opening and the wires are secured with red tape.  But perhaps its the kind of red tape that says "remove before flight"?  Or perhaps the wires are to pre-heat the leg locks.  But if the wires are for leg lock heating then they probably wouldn't have been on the Jason 3 flight(?) which (at the limits of image quality I tend to think I see in this Jason 3 image) they seem to be: http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/launchpad.jpg
« Last Edit: 02/24/2016 03:24 am by OxCartMark »
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Offline whitelancer64

So, does anybody know what the weather forecast is like for tomorrow at the Cape?
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Offline dorkmo

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 FT - SES-9 - March 4, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #784 on: 02/24/2016 06:50 am »
Pics of static fire on SpaceX's Instagram and Facebook.

Enjoy, Matthew

Seems like there are two rounded rectangles on either side of the leg here, a little bit inset.  Previous flights' legs had a roughly square protrusion (small fairing?) here.
It also seems they are very faintly visible on this image tweeted by the 45th Space Wing.
https://twitter.com/45thSpaceWing/status/701891806255046657

Tape. But I am noticing this string/wire first time.

Aha!  The dangers of low resolution strike again...

So what I seem to be seeing is two openings in the legs which are each covered by blow off covers of the type that are around the base of the payload fairing (if I recall what those look like, can't find an image now for comparison).  Those covers if they are what they may be are to keep rain, birds, etc. out but will blow off when the breeze gets intense.  There are wires running vertically into that opening and the wires are secured with red tape.  But perhaps its the kind of red tape that says "remove before flight"?  Or perhaps the wires are to pre-heat the leg locks.  But if the wires are for leg lock heating then they probably wouldn't have been on the Jason 3 flight(?) which (at the limits of image quality I tend to think I see in this Jason 3 image) they seem to be: http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/launchpad.jpg

boy thats a tough pic to read but i think you could be right about the wires being on jason.

Offline dorkmo

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 FT - SES-9 - March 4, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #785 on: 02/24/2016 06:52 am »
ps where should we talk about changes to the transporter erector?

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 FT - SES-9 - March 4, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #786 on: 02/24/2016 07:36 am »
At the SES press briefing it was stated that the first stage burn time is no longer than normal but that at MECO it's doing approx 8000 kph rather than 5000 for the Orbcomm launch (figures are from memory but I think close enough).

So does this imply that the Orbcomm launch wasn't actually going at full thrust? Apologies for  the novice rocket science question.

Offline guckyfan

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 FT - SES-9 - March 4, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #787 on: 02/24/2016 07:45 am »
Just watched the SES mission briefing. I like that SES guy, very knowledgeable and an interesting presentation.

SES 9 will be slightly super synchronous. He thinks no demo flights are necessary before reflying landed stages. Checks by SpaceX are enough. Two more launches for SES this year, two next year.

On prices he said that SpaceX argued that flight proven rockets should have higher prices. ;D No info on real prices though.

Interesting points on where satellite development is going. They could build satellites that last 25 years but due to technical development service times will actually get shorter. However there is development that satellites can have attach points where new additional hardware can be attached to increase capabilities.

Offline Kaputnik

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 FT - SES-9 - March 4, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #788 on: 02/24/2016 07:59 am »
Perhaps Orbcomm was a lofted trajectory?
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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 FT - SES-9 - March 4, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #789 on: 02/24/2016 08:02 am »

Perhaps Orbcomm was a lofted trajectory?

Good thought, but I think I heard that separation was at a similar altitude, approx 100 km

Offline ugordan

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 FT - SES-9 - March 4, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #790 on: 02/24/2016 08:11 am »
Well, SES apparently just told James Dean that there is "no impact" on recovery odds, so maybe starsilk's conjecture is correct, ie that SpaceX has run Monte Carlos based on previous flight performance and has now decided they have a little extra delta V to release.

Watching Martin Halliwell's presser right now, he has clarified that all they did was change the 2nd stage plan from a guidance-controlled shutdown to a minimum residual shutdown. So yeah, that implies that as far as S1 goes, the likelihood of recovering it was slim to begin with even before the mission profile change.

Offline ugordan

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 FT - SES-9 - March 4, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #791 on: 02/24/2016 08:13 am »
At the SES press briefing it was stated that the first stage burn time is no longer than normal but that at MECO it's doing approx 8000 kph rather than 5000 for the Orbcomm launch (figures are from memory but I think close enough).

So does this imply that the Orbcomm launch wasn't actually going at full thrust?

Recovery experiments SpaceX does mean the first stage is not burned to depletion but the staging velocity is predetermined according to mission requirements. It says virtually nothing about individual vehicle performance.

Offline hopalong

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 FT - SES-9 - March 4, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #792 on: 02/24/2016 08:16 am »
At the SES press briefing it was stated that the first stage burn time is no longer than normal but that at MECO it's doing approx 8000 kph rather than 5000 for the Orbcomm launch (figures are from memory but I think close enough).

So does this imply that the Orbcomm launch wasn't actually going at full thrust? Apologies for  the novice rocket science question.

Orbcomm was a much lighter payload to LEO, SES is a very heavy payload going to a GTO, for the 2nd stage to deliver the SES-9 to the required orbit, the 1st stage needs to push it to 8000 KPH, the 2nd stage does not have the performance to deliver the SES-9 to the required GTO from 5000 KPH.

Offline Rocket Science

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Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 FT - SES-9 - March 4, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #794 on: 02/24/2016 08:27 am »
All a booster can do is get US+payload to staging. US is responsible for orbital velocity and margin for stage shortfall (you can't minimize this margin). 3 burns can improve this, more props e.g. more densified can get you this.

The press kit shows that the upper stage is performing the normal two burn profile, so the three burn profile I speculated on earlier is not where they they are getting the extra performance.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 FT - SES-9 - March 4, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #795 on: 02/24/2016 09:19 am »
From the SES-9 Mission Briefing the longer upper stage burn is raising apogee from about 26,000 km to 39,000 km. Acquisition of spacecraft is expected about 22 minutes after separation. SES would have no problem flying a reused first stage. Threw challenge to SpaceX that SES be the first to refly a first stage. Investors really liked that idea. Gwyne from SpaceX joked that it would be more expensive since it was flight proven. Insurance spread across six launches. Martin Halliwell thinks they don't need any demonstrations of reflight to go. Need analysis of status of vehicle of what needs to be done to be flight worthy. SpaceX is working on that now. Use chemical to get to near GEO and then electric for fine tuning of orbit. Second stage separates at about 100 km, similar to Orbcomm. For Orbcomm, separation was at about 5000 km/h (1.4 km/s). SES 9 is between 8000 to 9000 km/h (2.2 to 2.5 km/s). ASDS about 400 miles (640 km) offshore. SES 10 and SES 11 being delivered to Cape in September and October. Launch is about one month later.
« Last Edit: 02/24/2016 09:21 am by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 FT - SES-9 - March 4, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #796 on: 02/24/2016 10:46 am »
In the above video (thanks, Steven!) --
Martin Halliwell, Chief Technology Officer, SES, says the launch weight of SES-9 is 3721 kg (if I heard correctly).
Since earlier I saw numbers about 5300-5400, I guess its worth to note this new number, for future performance calculations.

Correction:
Ouch! It was my typo - he said "5721", not "3721". Sorry about that  :-[

I meant, the weight is more by ~400 kg.
« Last Edit: 02/24/2016 01:27 pm by smoliarm »

Offline Jimmy Murdok

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 FT - SES-9 - March 4, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #797 on: 02/24/2016 11:20 am »
In the above video (thanks, Steven!) --
Martin Halliwell, Chief Technology Officer, SES, says the launch weight of SES-9 is 3721 kg (if I heard correctly).
Since earlier I saw numbers about 5300-5400, I guess its worth to note this new number, for future performance calculations.
Probably Martin referred to the dry weight. Th 5+ tones should be fueled.
http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/ses-9-communication-satellite/

Edit: yes, as confirmed below 5721kg and at late min 10 he speaks about 2,6t of fuel for the hybrid propulsion. Interesting video: customer looks very happy with SpaceX relation, inputs on future modular satellites connecting each other to extend life.
Working with the vendor ( I guess SpaceX) on a mechanical and com's interface and a second cargo, which is launched on a later launch where the primary satellite acts as a transport of the secondary payload and takes it to the old GEO sat and plug it to extend capability. New sat continues to perform its main mission. Min 17
« Last Edit: 02/24/2016 12:07 pm by Jimmy Murdok »

Offline ugordan

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 FT - SES-9 - March 4, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #798 on: 02/24/2016 11:30 am »
He clearly said "5721 kilos" in the video.

Offline saliva_sweet

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 FT - SES-9 - March 4, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #799 on: 02/24/2016 11:33 am »
In the above video (thanks, Steven!) --
Martin Halliwell, Chief Technology Officer, SES, says the launch weight of SES-9 is 3721 kg (if I heard correctly).
Since earlier I saw numbers about 5300-5400, I guess its worth to note this new number, for future performance calculations.

I clearly hear 5721 kilos. I guessthe extra ~400 kg is the payload adapter.

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