Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 : Koreasat 5A : Oct. 30, 2017 : DISCUSSION THREAD  (Read 96813 times)

Offline RotoSequence

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So, is this two post-flight kerosene fires in a row? Seems like there's some sort of anomaly in the design if that's the case.

Right. If they dumped them in the ocean, fires wouldn't break out after landing.

 ???

SpaceX might have a design issue to work out on disposing of Kerosene after flight, since this behavior is new as of the last two flights and has happened on both of them. It's not an accusation or a claim against the validity of booster recovery. Those who claim otherwise should be ashamed of themselves.

Offline alang

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So, is this two post-flight kerosene fires in a row? Seems like there's some sort of anomaly in the design if that's the case.

Right. If they dumped them in the ocean, fires wouldn't break out after landing.

 ???

SpaceX might have a design issue to work out on disposing of Kerosene after flight, since this behavior is new as of the last two flights and has happened on both of them. It's not an accusation or a claim against the validity of booster recovery. Those who claim otherwise should be ashamed of themselves.

Perhaps the only thing that has changed is performance and they have more RP1 left.

Offline Mike_1179

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Or it’s a known issue and it’s not worth “fixing” because a block 3 stage requires refurbishment anyway.

Online vanoord

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Or it’s a known issue and it’s not worth “fixing” because a block 3 stage requires refurbishment anyway.

This is a block 4 core?

Offline AncientU

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So, is this two post-flight kerosene fires in a row? Seems like there's some sort of anomaly in the design if that's the case.

Right. If they dumped them in the ocean, fires wouldn't break out after landing.

 ???

SpaceX might have a design issue to work out on disposing of Kerosene after flight, since this behavior is new as of the last two flights and has happened on both of them. It's not an accusation or a claim against the validity of booster recovery. Those who claim otherwise should be ashamed of themselves.

You make a good point -- I shouldn't have been quite so snarky.  Yet... jamin' a booster backwards through the atmosphere after a GTO launch, and landing it softly in the center of the bullseye in rough seas, even if the flamey end is still a bit flamey still boggles the imagination.  (The glass is 97% full, not 3% below the rim.)
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Offline Ben the Space Brit

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I'm wondering if they're deliberately trying higher and higher energy descents and landings in an attempt to find out just how far they can push these cores before they can't be recovered. Given that they're getting quite a stockpile of used cores now, they can afford to waste them on empirical data-gathering exercises like this by deliberately exposing them to stresses that may make them unreusable.
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Offline Lar

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I'm wondering if they're deliberately trying higher and higher energy descents and landings in an attempt to find out just how far they can push these cores before they can't be recovered. Given that they're getting quite a stockpile of used cores now, they can afford to waste them on empirical data-gathering exercises like this by deliberately exposing them to stresses that may make them unreusable.

My thought as well, see above

was this a planned "push the envelope" reentry? If so, that the stage is worse for wear and tear isn't necessarily bad.
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Offline Lars-J

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So, is this two post-flight kerosene fires in a row? Seems like there's some sort of anomaly in the design if that's the case.

Right. If they dumped them in the ocean, fires wouldn't break out after landing.

 ???

SpaceX might have a design issue to work out on disposing of Kerosene after flight, since this behavior is new as of the last two flights and has happened on both of them. It's not an accusation or a claim against the validity of booster recovery. Those who claim otherwise should be ashamed of themselves.

Sure... But the whole trend of "do I get a cookie if I'm the first one who spots a problem"-posts is just a tad obsessive. Do they think that SpaceX is unaware or blind to the issue unless you point it out?

And then people start rushing in to post about problems they imagine, just so they can be "first" to spot a problem, just in case. Is the core bent? Is there a buckle? Is a leg damaged? Is the an engine bell damaged? These are all examples from the last year, BTW... When the specific concerns turned out to be false.

The kerosene fire is obviously not normal, but people do take that to the N'th degree as well.
« Last Edit: 10/30/2017 10:40 pm by Lars-J »

Offline AncientU

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A kerosene fire at that end is normal... usually a few million times as intense.

'A bit toasty' as the announcer stated is sufficient level of 'concern.'
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Online ZachS09

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Having arrived at one of Embry-Riddle University's observation decks at 3:00 PM, I stayed there for over a half-hour while the 44th Falcon 9 rocket launched the Koreasat 5A satellite 48 miles away from where I stood.

I'll just let the video below explain itself.

Also took a couple photos of the aftermath.

« Last Edit: 10/30/2017 10:58 pm by ZachS09 »
Liftoff for St. Jude's! Go Dragon, Go Falcon, Godspeed Inspiration4!

Online abaddon

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Sure... But the whole trend of "do I get a cookie if I'm the first one who spots a problem"-posts is just a tad obsessive. Do they think that SpaceX is unaware or blind to the issue unless you point it out?

And then people start rushing in to post about problems they imagine, just so they can be "first" to spot a problem, just in case. Is the core bent? Is there a buckle? Is a leg damaged? Is the an engine bell damaged? These are all examples from the last year, BTW... When the specific concerns turned out to be false.

The kerosene fire is obviously not normal, but people do take that to the N'th degree as well.
People are excited about launches, and there isn't any harm.  Frankly these (multiple) posts along these lines are disappointing and not at all conducive to a friendly forum atmosphere, due to the sarcastic/superior/hostile tone.

The irony is the posts you are complaining about would have been quickly buried and forgotten if they weren't dredged back up.

Offline macpacheco

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Do we know the target orbit ?
Could this have been a super sync and/or substantial reduction in inclination that would use something similar to a typical 5+ ton to GTO launch performance ?
That could explain the type of landing performed.
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Offline cppetrie

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Do we know the target orbit ?
Could this have been a super sync and/or substantial reduction in inclination that would use something similar to a typical 5+ ton to GTO launch performance ?
That could explain the type of landing performed.
Quote
Tweet from Jonathan McDowell:
Mugunghwa-5A (Koreasat-5A) and Falcon 9-45 Stage 2 tracked in 285 x 50185 km x 22.0 deg supersync transfer orbit, confirming launch success
Don’t know what the target was, but this is what was achieved.

Offline gongora

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Payload is about 3700kg.
What is the source of this number?  Thales own press release presented earlier in this thread says 3,500 kg.

 - Ed Kyle

That's what the announcer said during the webcast.

Offline Thorny

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Payload is about 3700kg.
What is the source of this number?  Thales own press release presented earlier in this thread says 3,500 kg.

SpaceX launch webcast today. At about the T-6:00 mark.

Offline kdhilliard

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Fairing boat confirmed!!

From the webcast @10:51 (T-3:08):
Quote
Our fairing boat is, ... our, our drone ship is out in the sea three hundred forty nautical miles, go for today's launch.

Loose lips reveal ships.

Offline LouScheffer

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Quote
Tweet from Jonathan McDowell:
Mugunghwa-5A (Koreasat-5A) and Falcon 9-45 Stage 2 tracked in 285 x 50185 km x 22.0 deg supersync transfer orbit, confirming launch success
Don’t know what the target was, but this is what was achieved.
That's about 1617 m/s to GEO, by my estimation.

Offline LouScheffer

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Sure... But the whole trend of "do I get a cookie if I'm the first one who spots a problem"-posts is just a tad obsessive. Do they think that SpaceX is unaware or blind to the issue unless you point it out?

And then people start rushing in to post about problems they imagine, just so they can be "first" to spot a problem, just in case. Is the core bent? Is there a buckle? Is a leg damaged? Is the an engine bell damaged? These are all examples from the last year, BTW... When the specific concerns turned out to be false.

The kerosene fire is obviously not normal, but people do take that to the N'th degree as well.

You can remember this quote from Theodore Roosevelt:
Quote
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”

Offline catdlr

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Having arrived at one of Embry-Riddle University's observation decks at 3:00 PM, I stayed there for over a half-hour while the 44th Falcon 9 rocket launched the Koreasat 5A satellite 48 miles away from where I stood.

Also took a couple photos of the aftermath.


Here is a video of the same smoke/vapor trail.



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Offline Treasurer

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Falcon firestarter  :)
http://coub.com/view/z2sci

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