I suspect that SpaceX will not quote on any GSO missions until they have the Raptor/methane upper stage operational. I just can't see them committing resources for an interim solution that would only be used for a few flights.
Quote from: envy887 on 08/25/2016 08:14 pmDirect GSO insertion of large sats needs expendable performance (and 2nd stage endurance). I know they have said they are working on the endurance, but don't think they have any direct GSO payloads manifested.I think you underestimate just how powerful Falcon Heavy is even in partially reusable mode. Yes, even for high energy missions...
Direct GSO insertion of large sats needs expendable performance (and 2nd stage endurance). I know they have said they are working on the endurance, but don't think they have any direct GSO payloads manifested.
Quote from: Roy_H on 08/26/2016 11:42 pmI suspect that SpaceX will not quote on any GSO missions until they have the Raptor/methane upper stage operational. I just can't see them committing resources for an interim solution that would only be used for a few flights....this depends on whether or not SpaceX will deploy a Raptor-based upper stage for Falcon. That's not entirely certain right now.
Quote from: Robotbeat on 08/27/2016 02:29 amQuote from: Roy_H on 08/26/2016 11:42 pmI suspect that SpaceX will not quote on any GSO missions until they have the Raptor/methane upper stage operational. I just can't see them committing resources for an interim solution that would only be used for a few flights....this depends on whether or not SpaceX will deploy a Raptor-based upper stage for Falcon. That's not entirely certain right now.Considering the fact that they have an Air Force Contract to do exactly that, I am not sure why they wouldn't:http://www.parabolicarc.com/2016/01/18/spacex-air-force-funding-infusion-raptor-engine/
It's a contract for a prototype engine, not a US
Quote from: mfck on 08/27/2016 09:43 amIt's a contract for a prototype engine, not a USIt is a prototype for an upperstage engine:QuoteSpace Exploration Technologies, Corp. (SpaceX), Hawthorne, California, has been awarded a $33,660,254 other transaction agreement for the development of the Raptor rocket propulsion system prototype for the Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle (EELV) program. This agreement implements Section 1604 of the Fiscal Year 2015 National Defense Authorization Act, which requires the development of a next-generation rocket propulsion system that will transition away from the use of the Russian-supplied RD-180 engine to a domestic alternative for National Security Space launches. An other transaction agreement was used in lieu of a standard procurement contract in order to leverage on-going investment by industry in rocket propulsion systems. This other transaction agreement requires shared cost investment with SpaceX for the development of a prototype of the Raptor engine for the upper stage of the Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy launch vehicles. The locations of performance are NASA Stennis Space Center, Mississippi; Hawthorne, California; and Los Angeles Air Force Base, California. The work is expected to be completed no later than Dec. 31, 2018. Air Force fiscal 2015 research, development, test and evaluation funds in the amount of $33,660,254 are being obligated at the time of award. SpaceX is contributing $67,320,506 at the time of award. The total potential government investment, including all options, is $61,392,710. The total potential investment by SpaceX, including all options, is $122,785,419. This award is the result of a competitive acquisition with multiple offers received. The Launch Systems Enterprise Directorate, Space and Missile Systems Center, Los Angeles Air Force Base, California is the contracting activity (FA8811-16-9-0001).So you think SpaceX would design a prototype engine for Falcon 9/Heavy, and immediately shelve it? I can't see them doing that, if the engine is available and its will make money (for their Mars efforts) why would SpaceX not use it? Methane isnt that different from the operating temperatures for the low density LOX, it wont be that hard to design a tank for the engine.http://www.defense.gov/News/Contracts/Contract-View/Article/642983
Space Exploration Technologies, Corp. (SpaceX), Hawthorne, California, has been awarded a $33,660,254 other transaction agreement for the development of the Raptor rocket propulsion system prototype for the Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle (EELV) program. This agreement implements Section 1604 of the Fiscal Year 2015 National Defense Authorization Act, which requires the development of a next-generation rocket propulsion system that will transition away from the use of the Russian-supplied RD-180 engine to a domestic alternative for National Security Space launches. An other transaction agreement was used in lieu of a standard procurement contract in order to leverage on-going investment by industry in rocket propulsion systems. This other transaction agreement requires shared cost investment with SpaceX for the development of a prototype of the Raptor engine for the upper stage of the Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy launch vehicles. The locations of performance are NASA Stennis Space Center, Mississippi; Hawthorne, California; and Los Angeles Air Force Base, California. The work is expected to be completed no later than Dec. 31, 2018. Air Force fiscal 2015 research, development, test and evaluation funds in the amount of $33,660,254 are being obligated at the time of award. SpaceX is contributing $67,320,506 at the time of award. The total potential government investment, including all options, is $61,392,710. The total potential investment by SpaceX, including all options, is $122,785,419. This award is the result of a competitive acquisition with multiple offers received. The Launch Systems Enterprise Directorate, Space and Missile Systems Center, Los Angeles Air Force Base, California is the contracting activity (FA8811-16-9-0001).
Quote from: mfck on 08/27/2016 09:43 amIt's a contract for a prototype engine, not a USThe engine is pretty much all of the upperstage, stop splitting hairs when it is meaningless
Quote from: Ronsmytheiii on 08/27/2016 09:52 amQuote from: mfck on 08/27/2016 09:43 amIt's a contract for a prototype engine, not a USThe engine is pretty much all of the upperstage, stop splitting hairs when it is meaninglessI am not splitting anything. Integrarion, GSE and testing are all going to cost extra for a new stage.
Quote from: mfck on 08/27/2016 10:02 amQuote from: Ronsmytheiii on 08/27/2016 09:52 amQuote from: mfck on 08/27/2016 09:43 amIt's a contract for a prototype engine, not a USThe engine is pretty much all of the upperstage, stop splitting hairs when it is meaninglessI am not splitting anything. Integrarion, GSE and testing are all going to cost extra for a new stage. But SpaceX and the Air Force are going to spend at least $67 Million and $33.7 million respectively on an engine that will be shelved? All of the things you listed SpaceX did when they upgraded Falcon 9 for FT, yes it is extra but well less than a new engine.
Reminder, you should be posting in Thread 5 now. Chris was kind enough to not lock the old threads this time so we can still quote them.