Just throwing this out there: Antares II with ATK composite liquid first stage with one NK-33/AJ-36 and several Delta-heritage SRBs for thrust augmentation. Removes Ukraine from the supply chain, allows them stretch existing NK-33 supplies for longer (until AJR makes new ones), and is is completely vertically integrated except for that engine.
Quote from: A_M_Swallow on 04/29/2014 06:18 pmATK can ask Orbital for a full interface description of the Antares first stage and see how close they can get to meeting that interface. A few conversion boxes may be needed.a. ATK makes motors not stages. Orbital already puts boxes on ATK motors for Pegasus, Taurus and Minotaur. b. Dulles is not going to throw requirements over the fence for Utah to work. Now they are one team, so ATK is not going to ask Orbital for anything. If there is going to be a solid first stage for Antares, Orbital ATK will form a design team with people from Utah and Dulles facilities.
ATK can ask Orbital for a full interface description of the Antares first stage and see how close they can get to meeting that interface. A few conversion boxes may be needed.
Quote from: Jim on 04/29/2014 06:44 pmQuote from: A_M_Swallow on 04/29/2014 06:18 pmATK can ask Orbital for a full interface description of the Antares first stage and see how close they can get to meeting that interface. A few conversion boxes may be needed.a. ATK makes motors not stages. Orbital already puts boxes on ATK motors for Pegasus, Taurus and Minotaur. b. Dulles is not going to throw requirements over the fence for Utah to work. Now they are one team, so ATK is not going to ask Orbital for anything. If there is going to be a solid first stage for Antares, Orbital ATK will form a design team with people from Utah and Dulles facilities. Sounds like you view this merger as a positive Jim?
Being able to vertically integrate launch and spacecraft is a good benefit for OSC.
Quote from: jongoff on 04/30/2014 04:00 amBeing able to vertically integrate launch and spacecraft is a good benefit for OSC. It is interesting that when Orbital got the CRS contract, a lot was made about just how horizontally integrated the Taurus II/Cygnus system was, in contrast to the completely vertically integrated SpaceX. It seems that that business model failed for them, and that now they really want to be vertically integrated.
Think we missed it; everyone thinks ATK Solid Rocket motors But if you look at their web site, ATK is a manufacturer with many years of experience in many areas. So now its very possible Orbital ATK can one way or another manufacture the AJ-26 or a clone of it. The combined company could make the tankage, and the Cygnus. For the CRS contract maybe 90% content. Going to be very interesting to watch
Following the spin-off, Orbital shareholders will receive only 0.449 shares of the remaining assets of ATK for each share of Orbital stock they own. The investigation concerns possible breaches of fiduciary duty and other violations of state law by the Board of Directors of Orbital for not acting in the Company's shareholders' best interests in connection with the merger. The transaction may undervalue Orbital as the Company stock have risen over 70% in the last year as a reflection of the Company's success in launching unmanned supply ships to the International Space Station. In addition, following the merger the co-founder of Orbital will serve as the President and CEO of the merged company.
Now all eyes turn to Aerojet, the next shoe.
FWIW:http://www.marketwatch.com/story/shareholder-alert-brodsky-smith-llc-announces-investigation-of-orbital-sciences-corp-orb-2014-04-29?reflink=MW_news_stmpQuoteFollowing the spin-off, Orbital shareholders will receive only 0.449 shares of the remaining assets of ATK for each share of Orbital stock they own. The investigation concerns possible breaches of fiduciary duty and other violations of state law by the Board of Directors of Orbital for not acting in the Company's shareholders' best interests in connection with the merger. The transaction may undervalue Orbital as the Company stock have risen over 70% in the last year as a reflection of the Company's success in launching unmanned supply ships to the International Space Station. In addition, following the merger the co-founder of Orbital will serve as the President and CEO of the merged company. funny, while ORB is up 75% over 1yr, including yesterday's bump, they fail to mention ATK is up 103%!I guess the relevant issue is whether this 45% 55% split is judged to be fair. My uneducated opinion is yes. Both companies have value. ATK slightly more. Lawsuits will happen, but I'm not seeing anyone here specifically saying that the weighting of the deal is bad for ORB.
Quote from: Mr. Scott on 04/29/2014 03:47 pmWowwwwwwwwwwww!I would have seen an Orbital / SpaceX merger as a more likely play. Maybe there will be an Orbital ATK / SpaceX merger someday. Hmmm hmmm hmmm.Why?Their corporate cultures have "Government contractor" stamped bone DNA deep, complete with the relevant mindset regarding costs and schedules. Musk knows big solids are the kiss of death for reusability and crew rating. Antares was never crew rated and never designed to carry a crew capsule. So what would a merger with either of them give Spacex they actually want?AFAIK the answer is nothing.
Wowwwwwwwwwwww!I would have seen an Orbital / SpaceX merger as a more likely play. Maybe there will be an Orbital ATK / SpaceX merger someday. Hmmm hmmm hmmm.
In the merger, ATK shareholders will own approximately 53.8% of the equity of the combined company and Orbital shareholders will own approximately 46.2%.
Having read Chris' article, I think maybe StratoLaunch could be the main beneficiary of this merger.
Quote from: Prober on 04/30/2014 04:35 amThink we missed it; everyone thinks ATK Solid Rocket motors But if you look at their web site, ATK is a manufacturer with many years of experience in many areas. So now its very possible Orbital ATK can one way or another manufacture the AJ-26 or a clone of it. The combined company could make the tankage, and the Cygnus. For the CRS contract maybe 90% content. Going to be very interesting to watch You might like to peruse their catalogue. http://www.atk.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/ATK-Motor-Catalog-2012.pdfAll are solid. No liquid capability at all. Orbital's is hypergolic thrusters and whatever they've learned launching Antares. And since AFAIK the NK33 did not raise near the political stink the RD180 on the Atlas V did I'm not sure Orbital ATK can legally mfg anything, although on the Antares upgrade thread replace or restart NK33 mfg was my #1 pick for an upgrade.
I can't speak for Jim, but I think there's a good chance this merger will be good for Orbital, and I agree with GO4TLI that a lot of the anti-ATK hyperbole on this thread is a little overblown.