Author Topic: Call it anything but S-E-X  (Read 7614 times)

Offline realtime

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Call it anything but S-E-X
« on: 10/31/2006 02:15 am »
This is so screwed up I don't know who to be mad at -- JPL, that "conservative California space organization", or those twisted Puritans who infected a perfectly good continent with their fears and neuroses.

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewnews.html?id=1168

BTW, anybody want to hazard a guess as to which "conservative California space organization" she's talking about?



Offline George CA

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Re: Call it anything but S-E-X
« Reply #1 on: 10/31/2006 02:24 am »
This is a highly pointless thread on what is a good space flight discussion area. Maybe not worth keeping?
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Offline realtime

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RE: Call it anything but S-E-X
« Reply #2 on: 10/31/2006 02:30 am »
General discussion -- All things Space Flight related.

All things.  Even things that make some people uncomfortable.

Besides, if no one wants to talk about it, it'll soon suffer the death of all threads: it'll just fade away.


Offline Suzy

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RE: Call it anything but S-E-X
« Reply #3 on: 10/31/2006 07:01 am »
Cartoon that popped into my head (improving Russian-American relations, one might say): :)

Offline Marcus

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Re: Call it anything but S-E-X
« Reply #4 on: 10/31/2006 03:49 pm »
I agree with the author. This is a subject that has been completely neglected at great risk. We are setting ourselves up to condemn the first child concieved in space to an abortion or a breif and torturous life thanks to the "sensibilites" of a few.

It seems to me that the most age-old methods of birth control (barrier) would be most suitable for astronauts wishing to join the 200-mile-high club. Then again, I think I'd have trouble quantifiying that statement, or even getting funding/permission to run some experiments to confirm or negate my hypothesis.
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Offline PurduesUSAFguy

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Re: Call it anything but S-E-X
« Reply #5 on: 10/31/2006 05:30 pm »
We could always just go with reversible vesectimies for male astronauts for long duration missions with mixed crews.

Offline eeergo

Re: Call it anything but S-E-X
« Reply #6 on: 10/31/2006 05:55 pm »
I find this topic of high importance. As the author says, it's in our nature. In any long duration trip I find the issue impossible to oversee, if the astronauts' spirits want to be kept up. In a trip to Mars, or even a long duration stay on the Moon, sex is a good and cheap method of reducing agressive behaviour and increasing concentration in work. I find it a big irresponsibility to not even 'allow' some experiments to be made.

I remember reading some years ago that for a future travel to Mars, some couples could be selected as astronauts, because of this issue. What is this 'shyness' about? This is not a 21st century adult behaviour, but a 19th century childish stupidity.
-DaviD-

Offline coach

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Re: Call it anything but S-E-X
« Reply #7 on: 10/31/2006 08:24 pm »
"This is not a 21st century adult behaviour, but a 19th century childish stupidity."


I believe the thread is worthy of discussion.  I think the research should be done.  I also believe that the hush hush that NASA shows on this topic goes way beyond simple embarrassment or 19th century childish stupidity.  NASA is significantly involved in the following...

1.  Tax money.  To get money from Congress to launch rockets and do experiments, the experiments have to be sold to the public.  If the public has an "old fashioned" opinion about sex that is a valid topic of disagreement but put yourself in NASA's position.  Every dollar counts and the last thing they want to do is lose any more public interest in space.  Telling the American public that NASA is going to conduct sex research at the ISS would be a disaster, right or wrong.  Pragmatism is the key in this situation.  Everyone needs to relax on this subject anyway.  Plenty of research will be done as soon as Bigelow launches his first honeymoon suite!

2.  NASA is deeply involved in America's public education system.  Personally, I do not want my 6 year old son to know about NASA's involvement with sex in space.  Our society is already over sexualized.  This is not a "Puritan" point of view.  The openness of sex amongst adults should be encouraged but children's innocence in America is being destroyed by misplaced openness.  By misplaced I am speaking of pornography, prostitution, internet predators, etc.  I am in no way comparing a scientific experiment by NASA aboard ISS to www.porn.com, please see this.  But please also see that John Q. Public is extremely ignorant of science in general, space in particular.  Many parents of young children will not see the value in these experiments when they are trying so desparately to protect their children from a relentless barage of filth.  Full circle, the parents are voters and tax payers.

My reservations are not with NASA and sex research in microgravity.  In fact, I am all for it.  The more we know the better.  In fact, yes we should get over it and just do it (pun intended).  Understand, however, who you are trying to sell this experiment to.  Here at NSF, we are for research in everything.  Triple NASA's budget and do everything the money could buy.  Most of the country, however, does not hold this view.  NASA must, therefore, choose their endeavors wisely.


Coach

Offline SpacemanSpiff

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Re: Call it anything but S-E-X
« Reply #8 on: 10/31/2006 09:36 pm »
This a topic that should be discussed.
I think it is a shame that someone at JPL had to tarnish this author's reputation over the fact that her publisher wanted to have her talk at JPL. That is wrong.
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Coach, you make some good points. But I'm sure that with a little thought, NASA could present these things properly and they would be accepted.
This discussion is at least a start; it all starts with a dialogue and sharing viewpoints.


Offline Marcus

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Re: Call it anything but S-E-X
« Reply #9 on: 10/31/2006 10:38 pm »
Quote
coach - 31/10/2006  1:07 PM
I also believe that the hush hush that NASA shows on this topic goes way beyond simple embarrassment or 19th century childish stupidity.  NASA is significantly involved in the following...

1.  Tax money.  To get money from Congress to launch rockets and do experiments, the experiments have to be sold to the public.  If the public has an "old fashioned" opinion about sex that is a valid topic of disagreement but put yourself in NASA's position.  Every dollar counts and the last thing they want to do is lose any more public interest in space.  Telling the American public that NASA is going to conduct sex research at the ISS would be a disaster, right or wrong.  Pragmatism is the key in this situation.  Everyone needs to relax on this subject anyway.  Plenty of research will be done as soon as Bigelow launches his first honeymoon suite!

John Q. Public has no idea--nor does he much care--what experimentation goes on aboard the ISS, or in the shuttle ballast compartments, or anywhere else, besides what NASA pushes. Even then, it gets ignored. However, if a clinical experiment dealing with sex were done on the ISS, you can bet the media would run with it. They will not, however, run with the story about a book on space sex being available in a NASA gift shop.

However, there are some important aspects of birth control and pre-natal development which need to be addressed before any long-term spaceflight can be undertaken. Either that, or you can try to sell the ideas of same-sex crews to the public. Even if that flies, integration is going to happen, publicly or privately, and someone is eventually going to "do it." (Juvenile snickering here)

It would be a disaster if the experimentation occured in an uncontrolled environment in a space hotel. With the higher levels of radiation, the lack of gravity, who knows how the fetus would be affected in the earliest stages of development? To prevent pregnancy, with different absorbtion rates of medications in zero-g, who knows what dosages of birth control drugs would be appropriate? This is where the research should be directed, not in determining the best way to "do it."

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2.  NASA is deeply involved in America's public education system.  Personally, I do not want my 6 year old son to know about NASA's involvement with sex in space.

Why not? What part of the reproductive cycle of humans should children not be exposed to? What if it's an experiment in the reproduction of field mice? Would you have the same objections? This is an honest question, since you have to assume that experimentation of any kind by NASA will be handled in as professional (read: bland) a manner as everything else.

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Our society is already over sexualized.  This is not a "Puritan" point of view.  The openness of sex amongst adults should be encouraged but children's innocence in America is being destroyed by misplaced openness. By misplaced I am speaking of pornography, prostitution, internet predators, etc.  I am in no way comparing a scientific experiment by NASA aboard ISS to www.porn.com, please see this.  But please also see that John Q. Public is extremely ignorant of science in general, space in particular.  Many parents of young children will not see the value in these experiments when they are trying so desparately to protect their children from a relentless barage of filth.  Full circle, the parents are voters and tax payers.

Pornography, prostitution, internet predators, etc have only the most tenuous connections to the human reproductive cycle. Even the most uneducated parent should be able to tell the difference, and certainly an advisory board of engineers and scientists should have no problem determining the difference. Because experiments in reproduction in space will be handled professionally if they are done openly as part of a regulated research program, they will be incomprehensible and uninteresting to young minds while yeilding real scientific and safety benefits to those mature enough to grasp the concepts. Society may be too open about wallowing in carnal pleasures, but open experiments dealing with sex in space will be about as viscereal as a circutry diagram. The sooner NASA realizes this, the better.
OPS!
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Offline coach

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Re: Call it anything but S-E-X
« Reply #10 on: 11/01/2006 03:34 am »
Marcus, excellent points on all fronts.  I hope you are right.  The public is not concerned with the growth rates of mice under microgravity situations.  But if CNN caught wind of a NASA sponsored space sex experiment, the public would suddenly start caring.  VSE, ISS, Hubble, James Webb Telescope, all of it would get lumped into the same question.  Is NASA wasting our money?  Is this sad?  Yes.  There was a Katie Couric thread on NSF not too long ago dealing with this very topic.  There is a growing percentage of the population that is disconnected with NASA and space science and I am afraid a sex in space experiment would further the divide.  I am not necessarily disagreeing with your point of view overall.  I just think Joe American who votes and his congressmen who are sensitive to his opinion would not understand.  I just don't believe NASA could get away with it without a giant strain that would only have a negative impact in the long run.
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I do, however, still contest explaining sex to my 6 year old son.  Reproduction in general, no problem.  Human sexuality, no.  But we can respectfully disagree there.  

On the Bigelow front is where I thought you made the best points.  In fact, hotels in orbit are last on his list of inflatables to put up.  Laboratories are the top priority and sex/reproductive studies could be done by the private sector and universities without so much controversy.  

Coach

Offline TyMoore

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Re: Call it anything but S-E-X
« Reply #11 on: 11/01/2006 05:07 am »
Good points all around.

For my two cents worth--I'd have to say that we need to learn everything we can about human biology and the space environment. Very subtle effects involving bone loss, calcium leaching and fluid retention have all been studied in great detail by Russian and American medical scientists, and as much as we have learned we are really only touching the tip of the iceberg. There is much we don't know--and the scary thing about some of this, is that there are probably some very important things we are missing. Sex in space, especially in zero g may or may not have grave implications for human reproduction beyond Earth. We need to know how to live and work in space in order to live and work in space. Exploration followed by colonization is (or should be) the ultimate goal of our species efforts...

I don't know if there are any folks on this website that have medical or strong biological backgrounds--but I find this area of research to be very interesting and essential to humanity in the future.

Offline realtime

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Re: Call it anything but S-E-X
« Reply #12 on: 11/01/2006 05:14 am »
We humans have such limited experience.  We take a lot of things for granted.  I don't think we even know for sure if it's possible for a woman to become pregnant in space.  We certainly have no data on carrying a fetus to term.

Microgravity experiments on mice to see if mammalian reproductive systems function under quarter or sixth gee conditions could have direct application to planning colonies off-planet, hey?

Also, I think eergo's right.  Human sexuality is a psychological dynamic that must be taken into account.  Sex will occur in space once we begin long-duration mixed crew missions.  Especially once they get out of "nanny-cam" range.  Better plan for it now or missions could fail in spectacular fashion.



Offline Norm Hartnett

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Re: Call it anything but S-E-X
« Reply #13 on: 11/01/2006 03:45 pm »
"nanny-cam" I love it. Fortunately the rest of the world doesn't carry the burden of Puritanism that America does and I'm sure that the Russians (if they haven't already), the Europeans, or the Chinese will carry out the needed research. I wonder if that was part of the research that was supposed to happen in the Japanese ISS CAM module.
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Offline dutch courage

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RE: Call it anything but S-E-X
« Reply #14 on: 11/01/2006 04:08 pm »
Laura Woodmansee, author of "Sex In Space" was the guest on The Space Show hosted by Dr. David Livingston on september 10th, 2006.

Here she talks about the book and it's implications.

Go to: http://www.thespaceshow.com/detail.asp?q=552


Offline Big RI Joe

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Re: Call it anything but S-E-X
« Reply #15 on: 11/01/2006 04:22 pm »
Oh, so sexual modesty is Puritanical?

Offline Marcus

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Re: Call it anything but S-E-X
« Reply #16 on: 11/01/2006 05:42 pm »
Quote
coach - 31/10/2006  8:17 PM
 But if CNN caught wind of a NASA sponsored space sex experiment, the public would suddenly start caring...  ...I just think Joe American who votes and his congressmen who are sensitive to his opinion would not understand.

Unfortunately, there are times when we are just going to have to do the experimentation that Joe American doesn't understand or like. What NASA could really use are some talented PR spinsters to figure out a campaign to pre-empt the negative publicity.

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I do, however, still contest explaining sex to my 6 year old son.  Reproduction in general, no problem.  Human sexuality, no.

I guess, not yet being a father, I don't understand, so I'll cede this point to you. I would think that reproduction in general would pretty much cover all the necessary topics for the next 7-8 years until the hormones kick in and a bit more detailed explanation becomes necessary.

I am not really so concerned with the topic of "doing it" so much as the topic of birth control and human gestation in high-radiation free-fall environments. As I stated earlier, drug absorbtion has proven problematic in free-fall so physical contraceptives would seem to be a good fall-back method.

Great, coming soon: new NASA spaceflight spinoff; Spaceman Spiff "fail-op, fail-safe" condoms.

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On the Bigelow front is where I thought you made the best points.  In fact, hotels in orbit are last on his list of inflatables to put up.  Laboratories are the top priority and sex/reproductive studies could be done by the private sector and universities without so much controversy.

Agreed, but they'd best hurry.
OPS!
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Re: Call it anything but S-E-X
« Reply #17 on: 11/01/2006 06:29 pm »
Quote
Big RI Joe - 1/11/2006  11:05 AM

Oh, so sexual modesty is Puritanical?


In a word, yes.

puritanical  
–adjective 1. very strict in moral or religious matters, often excessively so; rigidly austere.  


The problem is simple - anything dealing with sex (except abstinance) is greeted with outrage and horror from the religious right.  Hence, no mention of sex in any publicly funded forum.  

Period.  

Violate this dictum at your own peril.











Offline vt_hokie

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RE: Call it anything but S-E-X
« Reply #18 on: 11/01/2006 09:26 pm »
Why do people refer to this as "necessary" research?  I think we're a long way from having people live in space and reproduce off of Earth.  So, I'd hardly call this a critical area of "research."

Offline Marcus

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RE: Call it anything but S-E-X
« Reply #19 on: 11/01/2006 11:15 pm »
Quote
vt_hokie - 1/11/2006  2:09 PM

Why do people refer to this as "necessary" research?  I think we're a long way from having people live in space and reproduce off of Earth.  So, I'd hardly call this a critical area of "research."

Even concieving in space could pose serious hazards to mother and child. We are not so far from space hotels and long-duration spaceflight.
OPS!
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