Quote from: MP99 on 11/24/2014 10:11 amHowever, it seems one element of this that will need manual operations is to get the rocket onto the TEL in the first place - the very thing that will be an issue in barge operations.cheers, martinIf the rocket no longer needs a TEL, then the issue goes away. I think this sort of feature is on the critical path for the F9 replacement whenever we hear about it.Obviously, they'll need payload integration of some sort at the beginning of the launch automation process where the payload provider doesn't have autonomous processes, but the rest could be automated, including the drive from Hawthorne to the launch site if you believe Musk's autonomous vehicle predictions.
However, it seems one element of this that will need manual operations is to get the rocket onto the TEL in the first place - the very thing that will be an issue in barge operations.cheers, martin
I updated the image and I think it is more accurate now, the circles were a bit elliptical in the last oneedit - updated with added accuracy... at least thats what it seems to me
Quote from: IRobot on 11/24/2014 05:18 amIt is much cheaper to send an heli from shore than to keep a boat on standby for days, although I am not exactly sure how far the barge will be.You're going to need a boat there anyway, to propel the barge. And the boat will probably have the crane on it.
It is much cheaper to send an heli from shore than to keep a boat on standby for days, although I am not exactly sure how far the barge will be.
Quote from: Brick_top on 11/24/2014 02:06 pmI updated the image and I think it is more accurate now, the circles were a bit elliptical in the last oneedit - updated with added accuracy... at least thats what it seems to mehere's a further suggestion: add dotted lines along the hinges where the side wings fold up (or down?) and the 100' width measurement? Great work.
Given this barge is going to be stationed 100nm+ off shore it will need a tug which will double as command ship. I don't think the propulsion system is designed for long haul travel in open sea.
Quote from: llanitedave on 11/24/2014 01:50 pmQuote from: IRobot on 11/24/2014 05:18 amIt is much cheaper to send an heli from shore than to keep a boat on standby for days, although I am not exactly sure how far the barge will be.You're going to need a boat there anyway, to propel the barge. And the boat will probably have the crane on it.The barge is self propelled, at least for position keeping. Electric motors for position keeping require a large diesel generator. So if the barge has enough diesel, the barge is self propelled. No need for a boat.
I think the Thrustmaster announcement I read on Saturday said these were diesel-hyrdraulic powered units, not diesel-electric, as are some other azimuth thruster designs.
The barge is self propelled, at least for position keeping. Electric motors for position keeping require a large diesel generator. So if the barge has enough diesel, the barge is self propelled. No need for a boat.
The lack of a pilothouse and its rectangular profile make it certain it will be towed into position by a tug and then detached for the actual landing exercise before being tugged back to port. A tugboat or similar support ship will be positioned not too far away.
Quote from: jaufgang on 11/24/2014 06:12 pmQuote from: Brick_top on 11/24/2014 02:06 pmI updated the image and I think it is more accurate now, the circles were a bit elliptical in the last oneedit - updated with added accuracy... at least thats what it seems to mehere's a further suggestion: add dotted lines along the hinges where the side wings fold up (or down?) and the 100' width measurement? Great work.I don't know that the wings fold up. I think they jut out to the side of the hulls like the overhang on an aircraft carrier deck
Base is 300 ft by 100 ft, with wings that extend width to 170 ft.
Agree with Sghill here. Although the ability to pass through the Panama Canal would lend flexibility to their logistics, SpaceX may have chosen otherwise. Nice work on that reference photo btw.
Quote from: IRobot on 11/24/2014 06:23 pmThe barge is self propelled, at least for position keeping. Electric motors for position keeping require a large diesel generator. So if the barge has enough diesel, the barge is self propelled. No need for a boat.Doesn't seem very practical.Quote from: Helodriver on 11/23/2014 05:31 amThe lack of a pilothouse and its rectangular profile make it certain it will be towed into position by a tug and then detached for the actual landing exercise before being tugged back to port. A tugboat or similar support ship will be positioned not too far away. Sounds a lot more likely.
Look, sometimes new technology changes things. With a self-powered barge, you don't need a tug. A support vessel with crew, sure, but you don't need to tow the vessel into place. And yes, you /can/ just give it GPS navpoints (combined with dead-reckoning short-term backup).Also, hydraulic power transmission is a pretty good idea. Hydraulic motors are very power-dense.
With reusability and flyback established, are there enduring reasons for cores to go horizontal again? Assume years down the road and envision many of the automated systems described upthread: if the need to transport horizontally is obviated by flyback, will that alter SpaceX's preference for horizontal integration?
Quote from: Dave G on 11/24/2014 07:03 pmQuote from: IRobot on 11/24/2014 06:23 pmThe barge is self propelled, at least for position keeping. Electric motors for position keeping require a large diesel generator. So if the barge has enough diesel, the barge is self propelled. No need for a boat.Doesn't seem very practical.Quote from: Helodriver on 11/23/2014 05:31 amThe lack of a pilothouse and its rectangular profile make it certain it will be towed into position by a tug and then detached for the actual landing exercise before being tugged back to port. A tugboat or similar support ship will be positioned not too far away. Sounds a lot more likely.Why the extra expense of a tug if you're already self-propelled? That doesn't make sense. The pods are quite powerful, easily powerful enough for putting itself in position. A support ship, sure, but why a tug?