Author Topic: Introducing Firefly Space Systems  (Read 340690 times)

Offline ringsider

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Re: Introducing Firefly Space Systems
« Reply #520 on: 09/12/2016 01:12 pm »
All the same, it would extremely suck if legal action resulted in the shuttering of Firefly. Autogenously Pressurized Methane Aerospike Rocket on a Composite Body has a nice ring to it!

I think they have abandoned methane and autogenous pressurization for RP-1 and helium pressurization. It was mentioned in a recent podcast.

Offline Davidthefat

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Re: Introducing Firefly Space Systems
« Reply #521 on: 09/12/2016 03:32 pm »
All the same, it would extremely suck if legal action resulted in the shuttering of Firefly. Autogenously Pressurized Methane Aerospike Rocket on a Composite Body has a nice ring to it!

I think they have abandoned methane and autogenous pressurization for RP-1 and helium pressurization. It was mentioned in a recent podcast.

They are still looking into it. Now to what extent? I don't know. But they described it more as a side project while most of the team is working on the RP-1 version. I'm guessing it's an handful of engineers doing analysis and simulations.

Offline ringsider

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Re: Introducing Firefly Space Systems
« Reply #522 on: 09/12/2016 04:11 pm »
All the same, it would extremely suck if legal action resulted in the shuttering of Firefly. Autogenously Pressurized Methane Aerospike Rocket on a Composite Body has a nice ring to it!

I think they have abandoned methane and autogenous pressurization for RP-1 and helium pressurization. It was mentioned in a recent podcast.

They are still looking into it. Now to what extent? I don't know. But they described it more as a side project while most of the team is working on the RP-1 version. I'm guessing it's an handful of engineers doing analysis and simulations.

Hmm. They said they had gone all RP-1 on this podcast due to some phase change issues in the chamber, also dropped autogenous for helium press, "just like everyone else":-

http://theorbitalmechanics.com/show-notes/nexto @ 39m:30s

Offline Davidthefat

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Re: Introducing Firefly Space Systems
« Reply #523 on: 09/12/2016 04:25 pm »
All the same, it would extremely suck if legal action resulted in the shuttering of Firefly. Autogenously Pressurized Methane Aerospike Rocket on a Composite Body has a nice ring to it!

I think they have abandoned methane and autogenous pressurization for RP-1 and helium pressurization. It was mentioned in a recent podcast.

They are still looking into it. Now to what extent? I don't know. But they described it more as a side project while most of the team is working on the RP-1 version. I'm guessing it's an handful of engineers doing analysis and simulations.

Hmm. They said they had gone all RP-1 on this podcast due to some phase change issues in the chamber, also dropped autogenous for helium press, "just like everyone else":-

http://theorbitalmechanics.com/show-notes/nexto @ 39m:30s


I guess I recalled that interview wrong. Since re-usability isn't an immediate goal, I wonder if they could have gone with an autogeneously pressurized ablative engine. I'd figure it would be a lot easier to manage by only having to consider cooling the spike without the combustors. Multiple loops of cooling channels are an option; the flow doesn't have to go from tip to tip, but can travel shorter lengths along the spike.

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Introducing Firefly Space Systems
« Reply #524 on: 09/12/2016 04:36 pm »
I'm going to suggest that this litigation won't be good for the ultimate winner either.  Virgin may win and may destroy this competitor, but its fear of a tiny, quick-footed rival has exposed a vulnerability. 

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Offline Chilly

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Re: Introducing Firefly Space Systems
« Reply #525 on: 09/12/2016 05:23 pm »
Well, we all know VG has their own issues. If they're trying to pivot towards the smallsat market while keeping SS2 afloat, then keeping a lid on competitors who are arguably much farther ahead would be mighty tempting. *Especially* if said competitor's business is founded on intellectual property that VG feels they have a rightful claim to.

I really like what Firefly is building so I hope it can keep going if VG ends up owning it by default. Even worse than tabling the whole enterprise would be having it steamrolled under the Branson Bluster Machine (Lock S-Foils in Hype position!).
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Offline NaN

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Re: Introducing Firefly Space Systems
« Reply #526 on: 09/12/2016 06:51 pm »
I really like what Firefly is building so I hope it can keep going if VG ends up owning it by default. Even worse than tabling the whole enterprise would be having it steamrolled under the Branson Bluster Machine (Lock S-Foils in Hype position!).

There's no real way that the bolded part works out - if VG takes a majority stake somehow, it would kill Firefly. You don't bust your butt at a startup to make money for somebody else that took you in a lawsuit - you do it for yourself, the people you're working shoulder to shoulder with, and the company you feel a part of. The vitality would quickly drain out of Firefly.

Offline strangequark

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Re: Introducing Firefly Space Systems
« Reply #527 on: 09/13/2016 01:20 am »
I really like what Firefly is building so I hope it can keep going if VG ends up owning it by default. Even worse than tabling the whole enterprise would be having it steamrolled under the Branson Bluster Machine (Lock S-Foils in Hype position!).

There's no real way that the bolded part works out - if VG takes a majority stake somehow, it would kill Firefly. You don't bust your butt at a startup to make money for somebody else that took you in a lawsuit - you do it for yourself, the people you're working shoulder to shoulder with, and the company you feel a part of. The vitality would quickly drain out of Firefly.

You're assuming they wouldn't provide similar equity and other compensation to the core people (excluding Markusic, who would obviously be gone). If those people are incentivized to stay, and as long as they don't all have deep personal loyalty to Tom Markusic, what's it to them if the majority shareholders change?

Offline savuporo

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Re: Introducing Firefly Space Systems
« Reply #528 on: 09/13/2016 02:19 am »
You're assuming they wouldn't provide similar equity and other compensation to the core people (excluding Markusic, who would obviously be gone). If those people are incentivized to stay, and as long as they don't all have deep personal loyalty to Tom Markusic, what's it to them if the majority shareholders change?

What comes with joining a new team of 3-5 people and building it up to the size of what Firefly is now, is very, very different from joining  a ~10 year old company with 250 employees.  "Startups" are not all the same thing.
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Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Introducing Firefly Space Systems
« Reply #529 on: 09/13/2016 03:15 pm »
You're assuming they wouldn't provide similar equity and other compensation to the core people (excluding Markusic, who would obviously be gone). If those people are incentivized to stay, and as long as they don't all have deep personal loyalty to Tom Markusic, what's it to them if the majority shareholders change?

What comes with joining a new team of 3-5 people and building it up to the size of what Firefly is now, is very, very different from joining  a ~10 year old company with 250 employees.  "Startups" are not all the same thing.

Firefly is 140 people.  95% of them didn't join when it was a new team of 3-5 people.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Introducing Firefly Space Systems
« Reply #530 on: 09/13/2016 03:57 pm »
You're assuming they wouldn't provide similar equity and other compensation to the core people (excluding Markusic, who would obviously be gone). If those people are incentivized to stay, and as long as they don't all have deep personal loyalty to Tom Markusic, what's it to them if the majority shareholders change?

What comes with joining a new team of 3-5 people and building it up to the size of what Firefly is now, is very, very different from joining  a ~10 year old company with 250 employees.  "Startups" are not all the same thing.

Firefly is 140 people.  95% of them didn't join when it was a new team of 3-5 people.
Much of the leadership probably did.
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Offline PhotoEngineer

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Re: Introducing Firefly Space Systems
« Reply #531 on: 09/14/2016 04:18 pm »
Markusic's company are really pushing the state of the art and it would be a shame if those technologies were obstructed by legal action.

From a pure technology aspect yes, but from a business ethics standpoint no.  Having companies that are established on the stolen IP of someone else is a horrible precedent to set in the industry. All of this tech takes years of work, research, and testing to develop....you don't want someone to walk off with it as soon as your done.  A better play for him would have been to go after a different market segment than VG, then they potentially would have licensed him the IP for a low rate.

Offline Kryten

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Re: Introducing Firefly Space Systems
« Reply #532 on: 09/24/2016 09:17 pm »
Taken from the IAC conference schedule;
Quote
September 27 2016, 14:45 — Salon Jalisco E2
...
IAC-16.D2.7.9
KEY TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENTS FOR THE FIREFLY ALPHA SMALL
LAUNCH VEHICLE – TEST PROGRAMME RESULTS & OUTCOMES
Andy Bradford, Firefly Space Systems, United Kingdom
Do the smaller IAC talks like this tend to end up on the internet?

Offline Davidthefat

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Re: Introducing Firefly Space Systems
« Reply #533 on: 09/24/2016 09:20 pm »
Taken from the IAC conference schedule;
Quote
September 27 2016, 14:45 — Salon Jalisco E2
...
IAC-16.D2.7.9
KEY TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENTS FOR THE FIREFLY ALPHA SMALL
LAUNCH VEHICLE – TEST PROGRAMME RESULTS & OUTCOMES
Andy Bradford, Firefly Space Systems, United Kingdom
Do the smaller IAC talks like this tend to end up on the internet?

Looking at their Youtube page: https://www.youtube.com/user/iafastro/videos, it does seem likely that the talk would be available online. Not certain whether it would be streamed live, but likely to be uploaded after the fact.

Offline Kryten

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Re: Introducing Firefly Space Systems
« Reply #534 on: 09/24/2016 09:45 pm »
Looking at their Youtube page: https://www.youtube.com/user/iafastro/videos, it does seem likely that the talk would be available online. Not certain whether it would be streamed live, but likely to be uploaded after the fact.
I've had a closer look, and it's only a few highlight talks and major ones like the plenary sessions, at least for last year.
« Last Edit: 09/25/2016 09:51 pm by Kryten »

Offline Beittil

Re: Introducing Firefly Space Systems
« Reply #535 on: 09/26/2016 01:56 pm »
Popped in freshly on Twitter:

Quote
Full Mission Duty Cycle Test a Success for Firefly Space Systems

CEDAR PARK, Texas, September 26, 2016

Firefly Space Systems, the Texas-based developer of dedicated launch vehicles for the small satellite market, announced today that it has successfully completed over 50 hot fire tests of its combustor, including multiple full mission duty cycle (“MDC”) tests.

“These tests of our combustor retire critical engine design risk elements and place Firefly among an elite group of newspace companies that have successfully performed an MDC hot fire on a flight weight combustor. We have shown that our regeneratively cooled engine is capable of withstanding the stresses associated with long duration hot fires,” said Firefly Co-Founder and CEO Dr. Thomas Markusic.



http://www.fireflyspace.com/news/ournews/full-mission-duty-cycle-test-a-success-for-firefly-space-systems
« Last Edit: 09/26/2016 01:57 pm by Beittil »

Offline rocx

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Re: Introducing Firefly Space Systems
« Reply #536 on: 09/26/2016 02:00 pm »
Is this Awesome Rocket Development Tweet Day or something?
Any day with a rocket landing is a fantastic day.

Offline Kryten

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Re: Introducing Firefly Space Systems
« Reply #537 on: 09/29/2016 10:35 pm »
They just posted the attached statement on twitter. Doesn't sound good.

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Introducing Firefly Space Systems
« Reply #538 on: 09/29/2016 10:40 pm »
Uh oh.  That sounds very ominus.  Not even being able to say yet what the path forward is is a bad sign.

I wonder how much of this is related to the lawsuit.

Offline Davidthefat

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Re: Introducing Firefly Space Systems
« Reply #539 on: 09/29/2016 11:31 pm »
They were in the middle of a big hiring campaign as well. It's a real bummer to the individuals that are affected by the cut in funding.

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