Author Topic: USAF releases GPS III launch RFP  (Read 125347 times)

Offline macpacheco

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USAF releases GPS III launch RFP
« on: 10/01/2015 12:05 am »
http://www.insidegnss.com/node/4687

Can upgraded F9R do the job in expendable mode ?
Looking for companies doing great things for much more than money

Offline Jim

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Re: USAF releases GPS III launch RFP
« Reply #1 on: 10/01/2015 12:46 am »
The current version of the F9 is not certified

Offline DanseMacabre

Re: USAF releases GPS III launch RFP
« Reply #2 on: 10/01/2015 12:49 am »
The current version of the F9 is not certified
Is a different kind of certification to that awarded this summer required? I believed that the USAF stated that the Uprated F9 was covered under that certification and have restated that post CRS-7.

Offline Comga

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Re: USAF releases GPS III launch RFP
« Reply #3 on: 10/01/2015 04:41 am »
The current version of the F9 is not certified

From the article:
"“With the recent certification of SpaceX, we now have multiple launch service providers that can service critical NSS missions.  .... ” said Dr. Claire Leon, director of SMC’s Launch Enterprise Directorate."

How are these two statements compatible?
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: USAF releases GPS III launch RFP
« Reply #4 on: 10/01/2015 06:38 am »
This is the part I liked best:

Quote
“As part of this reintroduction of competition, we’ve been working with our industry partners to develop and finalize this RFP,” said Leon.  “Their feedback has been critical to developing the criteria for this source selection and how we are innovating government processes to better match commercial processes as directed by OSD’s Better Buying Power 3.0.

In other words, they're taking SpaceX seriously and making an effort to be open to the way SpaceX wants to do business.

It looks like the whole fiasco over certification of Falcon 9 has led to some change by the Air Force.

Online woods170

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Re: USAF releases GPS III launch RFP
« Reply #5 on: 10/01/2015 08:09 am »
The current version of the F9 is not certified

From the article:
"“With the recent certification of SpaceX, we now have multiple launch service providers that can service critical NSS missions.  .... ” said Dr. Claire Leon, director of SMC’s Launch Enterprise Directorate."

How are these two statements compatible?
They are not. One of them is wrong.
Meaning no disrespect to Jim but I fully expect USAF to be better informed on the current status of F9 certification than Jim is.
« Last Edit: 10/01/2015 08:10 am by woods170 »

Offline sdsds

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Re: USAF releases GPS III launch RFP
« Reply #6 on: 10/01/2015 08:13 am »
Respectfully I disagree. Dr Leon introduces the notion that a launch service provider can be certified. The sentence quoted says nothing about launch vehicle certification.
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Online woods170

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Re: USAF releases GPS III launch RFP
« Reply #7 on: 10/01/2015 10:33 am »
Respectfully I disagree. Dr Leon introduces the notion that a launch service provider can be certified. The sentence quoted says nothing about launch vehicle certification.
Semantics:

Quote
“With the recent certification of SpaceX, we now have multiple launch service providers that can service critical NSS missions.  .... ” said Dr. Claire Leon, director of SMC’s Launch Enterprise Directorate."

For a certified launch service provider to be able to service critical NSS missions, said launch service provider MUST have a certified launch vehicle.
Meaning: the fact that SMC acknowledges that SpaceX is a certified launch service provider means that SpaceX, according to SMC, has a certified launch vehicle.

That is incompatible to Jim stating that the current version of F9 is not certified. Note the word 'current' to which Jim, IMO, has given an incorrect interpretation.
« Last Edit: 10/01/2015 10:34 am by woods170 »

Offline baldusi

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Re: USAF releases GPS III launch RFP
« Reply #8 on: 10/01/2015 12:39 pm »
Respectfully I disagree. Dr Leon introduces the notion that a launch service provider can be certified. The sentence quoted says nothing about launch vehicle certification.
Semantics:

Quote
“With the recent certification of SpaceX, we now have multiple launch service providers that can service critical NSS missions.  .... ” said Dr. Claire Leon, director of SMC’s Launch Enterprise Directorate."

For a certified launch service provider to be able to service critical NSS missions, said launch service provider MUST have a certified launch vehicle.
Meaning: the fact that SMC acknowledges that SpaceX is a certified launch service provider means that SpaceX, according to SMC, has a certified launch vehicle.

That is incompatible to Jim stating that the current version of F9 is not certified. Note the word 'current' to which Jim, IMO, has given an incorrect interpretation.
They have the v1.1 certified. They will be offering the v1.1 Full Thrust, which I believe, is currently not. But with 3 launches they should be able to do the delta certification (which is a lot easier than a full new certification), and the contractor (SpaceX) is fully certified.

Offline Jim

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Re: USAF releases GPS III launch RFP
« Reply #9 on: 10/01/2015 01:14 pm »
Delta cert will have to be done for NASA too

Offline Dante80

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Re: USAF releases GPS III launch RFP
« Reply #10 on: 10/01/2015 01:20 pm »
Respectfully I disagree. Dr Leon introduces the notion that a launch service provider can be certified. The sentence quoted says nothing about launch vehicle certification.
Semantics:

Quote
“With the recent certification of SpaceX, we now have multiple launch service providers that can service critical NSS missions.  .... ” said Dr. Claire Leon, director of SMC’s Launch Enterprise Directorate."

For a certified launch service provider to be able to service critical NSS missions, said launch service provider MUST have a certified launch vehicle.
Meaning: the fact that SMC acknowledges that SpaceX is a certified launch service provider means that SpaceX, according to SMC, has a certified launch vehicle.

That is incompatible to Jim stating that the current version of F9 is not certified. Note the word 'current' to which Jim, IMO, has given an incorrect interpretation.
They have the v1.1 certified. They will be offering the v1.1 Full Thrust, which I believe, is currently not. But with 3 launches they should be able to do the delta certification (which is a lot easier than a full new certification), and the contractor (SpaceX) is fully certified.

How is the process going to unfold though? Will USAF let SX bid on the contract with v1.1 FT, or will they disqualify the bid because the FT variant has not yet been certified (at the time of bidding)?

If they disqualify them, then what retarded kind of "competition" is this? Especially since ULA got  9 RD-180s to...let them compete against SX, as well a not insignificant amount of money to keep DIV "ready" via ELV.

Would maybe USAF pay SX money to keep the certified v1.1 variant as "current", like it will do with DIV?
 
« Last Edit: 10/01/2015 01:32 pm by Dante80 »

Offline OnWithTheShow

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Re: USAF releases GPS III launch RFP
« Reply #11 on: 10/01/2015 01:23 pm »
I remember reading somewhere, but cant currently find, an Air Force statement that delta certification would not require 3 flights depending on the scope of the change.

Offline abaddon

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Re: USAF releases GPS III launch RFP
« Reply #12 on: 10/01/2015 01:31 pm »
Delta cert will have to be done for NASA too
Not for a USAF launch, which is after all the subject of this thread...

Offline abaddon

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Re: USAF releases GPS III launch RFP
« Reply #13 on: 10/01/2015 01:32 pm »
I remember reading somewhere, but cant currently find, an Air Force statement that delta certification would not require 3 flights depending on the scope of the change.
I'd expect this one to require the three flights, based on the number of changes.  As long as RTF goes well (knock on wood), SpaceX should be able to easily achieve that with their crowded manifest, so it shouldn't be a big deal.

Offline Jim

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Re: USAF releases GPS III launch RFP
« Reply #14 on: 10/01/2015 01:33 pm »
Delta cert will have to be done for NASA too
Not for a USAF launch, which is after all the subject of this thread...

They have similar processes.  And there was an agreement to this affect, so that contractors would not get yank around by different requirements.

Online woods170

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Re: USAF releases GPS III launch RFP
« Reply #15 on: 10/01/2015 01:42 pm »
Respectfully I disagree. Dr Leon introduces the notion that a launch service provider can be certified. The sentence quoted says nothing about launch vehicle certification.
Semantics:

Quote
“With the recent certification of SpaceX, we now have multiple launch service providers that can service critical NSS missions.  .... ” said Dr. Claire Leon, director of SMC’s Launch Enterprise Directorate."

For a certified launch service provider to be able to service critical NSS missions, said launch service provider MUST have a certified launch vehicle.
Meaning: the fact that SMC acknowledges that SpaceX is a certified launch service provider means that SpaceX, according to SMC, has a certified launch vehicle.

That is incompatible to Jim stating that the current version of F9 is not certified. Note the word 'current' to which Jim, IMO, has given an incorrect interpretation.
They have the v1.1 certified. They will be offering the v1.1 Full Thrust, which I believe, is currently not. But with 3 launches they should be able to do the delta certification (which is a lot easier than a full new certification), and the contractor (SpaceX) is fully certified.
The 'current' vehicle is F9 v1.1. The full thrust F9 does not become the 'current' vehicle until it has actually flown AND the last F9 v1.1 has flown.
So, currently (no pun intended) SpaceX does have a certified launcher.
« Last Edit: 10/01/2015 01:43 pm by woods170 »

Offline Jim

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Re: USAF releases GPS III launch RFP
« Reply #16 on: 10/01/2015 01:52 pm »
The 'current' vehicle is F9 v1.1. The full thrust F9 does not become the 'current' vehicle until it has actually flown AND the last F9 v1.1 has flown.
So, currently (no pun intended) SpaceX does have a certified launcher.

It is not available to the USAF

Offline notsorandom

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Re: USAF releases GPS III launch RFP
« Reply #17 on: 10/01/2015 02:33 pm »
The 'current' vehicle is F9 v1.1. The full thrust F9 does not become the 'current' vehicle until it has actually flown AND the last F9 v1.1 has flown.
So, currently (no pun intended) SpaceX does have a certified launcher.
I thought they yet to be flown Jason-3 would be the last F9 v1.1 to fly.

Offline baldusi

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Re: USAF releases GPS III launch RFP
« Reply #18 on: 10/01/2015 05:29 pm »
The 'current' vehicle is F9 v1.1. The full thrust F9 does not become the 'current' vehicle until it has actually flown AND the last F9 v1.1 has flown.
So, currently (no pun intended) SpaceX does have a certified launcher.
I thought they yet to be flown Jason-3 would be the last F9 v1.1 to fly.
It is. We are throwing more technicalities than lawyers are each other.

Offline docmordrid

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Re: USAF releases GPS III launch RFP
« Reply #19 on: 10/03/2015 03:45 am »
ULA says they can't bid without RD-180 ban relief

http://spacenews.com/bruno-says-ula-cant-bid-on-gps-3-launch/
DM

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