Author Topic: Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION  (Read 92509 times)

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION
« Reply #140 on: 03/31/2018 07:53 pm »
Domestic is not a requirement. The same announcement which dropped BE-3U also confirmed that Vinci is in the running

It is if they expect to get much EELV contract action. Otherwise ULA would rightfully cry foul over the Atlas V.
Even if Vinci was accepted today for EELV, there is nothing stopping lawmakers making it illegal in future. Domestic engine is future proof.

Offline AnalogMan

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Re: Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION
« Reply #141 on: 03/31/2018 10:13 pm »
This is a no brainer.  Vinci is newer.  It makes more thrust at a higher specific impulse than RL10C-1.  It likely costs less to boot.  Congress is not going to arbitrarily ban a rocket component produced in Germany.  SLS, after all, uses German-built core tank walls.

 - Ed Kyle 

I thought AMRO Fabricating Corp. manufactured all the SLS core tank panels.

http://amrofab.com/

https://www.nasa.gov/exploration/systems/sls/multimedia/AMRO-fabricating-corp-lining-up-panels-for-sls.html
« Last Edit: 03/31/2018 10:14 pm by AnalogMan »

Offline AnalogMan

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Re: Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION
« Reply #142 on: 04/01/2018 12:10 am »
I thought AMRO Fabricating Corp. manufactured all the SLS core tank panels.

http://amrofab.com/

https://www.nasa.gov/exploration/systems/sls/multimedia/AMRO-fabricating-corp-lining-up-panels-for-sls.html
Germany's MT Aerospace provides panels.  These may be for the tank domes.
http://www.mt-aerospace.de/news-details-en/items/nasa-space-launch-system-mt-aerospace-awarded-further-contracts-by-boeing.html

 - Ed Kyle

Ah, you are right - MT Aerospace fabricate the gores for the tank domes.

Offline brickmack

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Re: Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION
« Reply #143 on: 04/01/2018 04:04 am »
It is if they expect to get much EELV contract action. Otherwise ULA would rightfully cry foul over the Atlas V.

Foreign parts are not and never have been banned, beyond simply requiring that a particular percentage of the cost of the vehicle be made by American companies. RD-180 is being banned because its from Russia specifically. America and the EU are on great terms.

Offline Sknowball

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Re: Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION
« Reply #144 on: 04/01/2018 09:02 am »
Foreign parts are not and never have been banned, beyond simply requiring that a particular percentage of the cost of the vehicle be made by American companies. RD-180 is being banned because its from Russia specifically. America and the EU are on great terms.

And in 1995 America and Russia were on pretty good terms to.

Offline WulfTheSaxon

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Re: Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION
« Reply #145 on: 04/01/2018 02:33 pm »
Foreign parts are not and never have been banned, beyond simply requiring that a particular percentage of the cost of the vehicle be made by American companies. RD-180 is being banned because its from Russia specifically. America and the EU are on great terms.

And in 1995 America and Russia were on pretty good terms to.

If “pretty good terms” means “thousands of nuclear missiles pointed at each other”, then sure – pretty good terms. But don’t confuse relatively good with pretty good.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION
« Reply #146 on: 04/02/2018 07:40 am »
FEATURE ARTICLE: Orbital ATK preparing for next phase of NGL rocket development -

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018/03/orbital-atk-next-phase-ngl-rocket-development/

- By Chris Gebhardt

The rocketline graphic should also have Falcon 9 and Delta IV Heavy. New Glenn is shown with the old 5 m fairing which is no longer planned. Possibly too late to be incorporated, the New Glenn second stage will be longer as it is now using hydrolox instead of methalox. Possibly more interesting than height, would be the vehicle payload into LEO.
« Last Edit: 04/02/2018 07:41 am by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Kasponaut

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Re: Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION
« Reply #147 on: 04/02/2018 09:05 am »
FEATURE ARTICLE: Orbital ATK preparing for next phase of NGL rocket development -

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018/03/orbital-atk-next-phase-ngl-rocket-development/

- By Chris Gebhardt

The rocketline graphic should also have Falcon 9 and Delta IV Heavy. New Glenn is shown with the old 5 m fairing which is no longer planned. Possibly too late to be incorporated, the New Glenn second stage will be longer as it is now using hydrolox instead of methalox. Possibly more interesting than height, would be the vehicle payload into LEO.

I completely agree! Details like these are important and should be fixed - this is NasaSpaceFlight.com

Offline AncientU

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Re: Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION
« Reply #148 on: 04/02/2018 11:48 am »
Orbital ATK said that the BE-3U is not one of the third stage engine candidates.

Reason given was BE-3U wouldn't be ready in time. 
Blue has just announced going with BE-3U for first flight in 2021.
Maybe Blue has accelerated the engine development to satisfy all* potential users...

* SLS is also looking at BE-3U for EUS.
"If we shared everything [we are working on] people would think we are insane!"
-- SpaceX friend of mlindner

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION
« Reply #149 on: 04/03/2018 04:44 am »
I completely agree! Details like these are important and should be fixed - this is NasaSpaceFlight.com

This is not the fault of NSF. The graphic is from Orbital-ATK!
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Kasponaut

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Re: Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION
« Reply #150 on: 04/03/2018 09:35 am »
I completely agree! Details like these are important and should be fixed - this is NasaSpaceFlight.com

This is not the fault of NSF. The graphic is from Orbital-ATK!

Maybe so, but information - like this graphic - when shown on NSF should be up to date and correct no matter where it is from.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION
« Reply #151 on: 04/13/2018 05:43 pm »
OA will most likely use it for their MEV launches plus offer satellite build and launch as one bundle.

Offline envy887

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Re: Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION
« Reply #152 on: 04/13/2018 06:49 pm »
Stephen Clark story today titled "Orbital ATK confident new rocket will win Air Force support".

https://spaceflightnow.com/2018/04/12/orbital-atk-confident-new-rocket-will-win-air-force-support/

Orbital ATK has the solids, the crucial avionics, the fairing, and the launch site essentially in-hand.  A no-nonsense rocket design with no unnecessary, costly, performance-robbing fancy stuff like landing legs.  The key will be that mystery upper stage.

 - Ed Kyle

Says "all with U.S.-supplied propulsion systems", is Vinci out?

I don't know that I'd call the fairings or launch sites in hand. They haven't built anything yet, as far as I can tell. The LP and VAB bays needs significant modification. The VAFB pads are still being used by other rockets.

However, I don't think there are any major technical risks. The VAB should work fine for VI. None of the technologies really break any new ground. The costs and timelines should be reasonably well understood. There is little reason they should miss a 2021 first launch date.

Offline brickmack

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Re: Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION
« Reply #153 on: 04/13/2018 11:33 pm »

Says "all with U.S.-supplied propulsion systems", is Vinci out?

That exact quote never appears in the article, it says "all with U.S.-supplied booster propulsion systems." Vinci is not a booster engine.

Offline Space Ghost 1962

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Re: Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION
« Reply #154 on: 04/14/2018 12:34 am »
Stephen Clark story today titled "Orbital ATK confident new rocket will win Air Force support".

https://spaceflightnow.com/2018/04/12/orbital-atk-confident-new-rocket-will-win-air-force-support/
Composite wound segmented solids are the whole point here. Once assembled, they have a limited shelf life in humid Florida.

Quote
Orbital ATK has the solids, the crucial avionics, the fairing, and the launch site essentially in-hand.
AFAIK, the launch site is a launch mount yet to be built with a contract yet to be finalized, to be mounted on a MLP with a crawler yet to be made available, to be temporarily operated off of 39B when unused by SLS.

And this is "in hand"?  ::) And boy that must be cheap to operate/maintain as a sole operator.

Quote
A no-nonsense rocket design with no unnecessary, costly, performance-robbing fancy stuff like landing legs.
Reminds of the expression, "as useless as tits on a bull".

Somewhat inappropriate and lessens the professionalism of the writer, but not unexpected.

Prompting the obligatory - yes, and waiting for the multiple flights from the same vehicle, might be a bit of a wait. And I thought Musk time dilation was annoying ...

Perhaps NGL, like a match, can "burn twice"?  ;D You can touch it Ed, am not going near it.

Quote
The key will be that mystery upper stage.
No, I'd guess a hundred keys or so, leading up to doing a restartable hydrolox stage with adequate on orbit duration. So simple. What could go wrong?

IIRC that was desired for Antares but considered too much to bring off. How many Antares flights have we seen now? I think one can count them on a single hand. Perhaps, if they fall behind, they can stack a few more solids and a HAPS? Good enough.

At least SX doesn't have to resort to burning stone, which is certainly performance robbing compared to kerolox ... <snort>

Offline envy887

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Re: Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION
« Reply #155 on: 04/14/2018 02:34 am »

Says "all with U.S.-supplied propulsion systems", is Vinci out?

That exact quote never appears in the article, it says "all with U.S.-supplied booster propulsion systems." Vinci is not a booster engine.

It used to say that exact quote. The article was updated, which I guess answers my question. Vinci is not out.

Offline Lars-J

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Re: Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION
« Reply #156 on: 04/14/2018 06:14 am »
So this thing is getting the official unveiling on Monday, right?

Ok... With ATKs penchant for over-the-top patriotic names for their products (Liberty anyone?), what will the name of NGL be?
 - Liberty (why not try again?)
 - Freedom
 - Patriot
 - America
 - Rebublic
 - Democracy
 - Constitution
 - Washington

Any other suggestions?  :)
« Last Edit: 04/14/2018 06:17 am by Lars-J »

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION
« Reply #157 on: 04/14/2018 07:10 am »
So this thing is getting the official unveiling on Monday, right?

Ok... With ATKs penchant for over-the-top patriotic names for their products (Liberty anyone?), what will the name of NGL be?
 - Liberty (why not try again?)
 - Freedom
 - Patriot
 - America
 - Rebublic
 - Democracy
 - Constitution
 - Washington

Any other suggestions?  :)
AFAIK, the name is expected to be in line with their (Orbital - Pre ATK merger) existing naming system.

Offline deruch

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Re: Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION
« Reply #158 on: 04/14/2018 07:32 am »
So this thing is getting the official unveiling on Monday, right?

Ok... With ATKs penchant for over-the-top patriotic names for their products (Liberty anyone?), what will the name of NGL be?
 - Liberty (why not try again?)
 - Freedom
 - Patriot
 - America
 - Rebublic
 - Democracy
 - Constitution
 - Washington

Any other suggestions?  :)
AFAIK, the name is expected to be in line with their (Orbital - Pre ATK merger) existing naming system.

"Cretan Bull"?
Shouldn't reality posts be in "Advanced concepts"?  --Nomadd

Offline Star One

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Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION
« Reply #159 on: 04/14/2018 08:23 am »
I read that SF article about Orbital’s ATK NGL launcher and it seemed so divorced from the reality of the launcher market now that it didn’t seem worth posting here. Do they expect by giving it an OTT patriotic name at its unveiling that suddenly the taxpayers money will come flowing in.
« Last Edit: 04/14/2018 08:26 am by Star One »

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