To say Ares V will never be built it hypothetical. NASA seems to think it will.
Darn! I was the first person to post on Thread 2, and I just missed it here Chuck, you missed it again too!David
I understand the ET won't leave LEO, but it was never designed to carry a load that would like it will be used for now.Like I said, maybe it's not a major obsticle. Just pointing out some other consideration that people might not be thinking about, especially when they all get excited about their own ideas.
Quote from: Lobo on 01/13/2009 10:52 pmTo say Ares V will never be built it hypothetical. NASA seems to think it will. The fact that there are many enthusiastic "anything space is great" supporters here that think Ares V is to expensive tells me that the President Elect, Congress, and the general public will frown once they see its total cost of Ares V when compared to some other more frugal options. Just a thought ...
Quote from: Lobo on 01/13/2009 10:52 pmI understand the ET won't leave LEO, but it was never designed to carry a load that would like it will be used for now.Like I said, maybe it's not a major obsticle. Just pointing out some other consideration that people might not be thinking about, especially when they all get excited about their own ideas.So you think people, which are working on DIRECT project for 2 years now, somehow "might not be thinking about" whether it is feasible of making ET-derived tank to support this weight.Surprise! They did think about it, and found out that it is possible, and not even hard.
Also, I read a bit back someone asking about the insulation. Since Ares or Jupiter would be inline, is the foam neaded?
I know the old pictures of the Saturn taking off with literally tons of ice breaking off. Seems like those could potentiall cause enough problem of striking the SRB gimbles or just the lower part of the stack, or even damaging the pad that you'd probably want to stick with some type of foam.
Lastly, to one of you guys who have all the numbers at your finger tips, could there be even a scaled down version of Jupiter 120 for launching Orion and the SM to the ISS? What I mean by that is could you actually forgo the SRB's for a core with 3 RS68's?
Quote from: Lobo on 01/13/2009 11:48 pmAlso, I read a bit back someone asking about the insulation. Since Ares or Jupiter would be inline, is the foam neaded?Well, if you are ok with *liquid air* forming on the tank, not counting huge masses of ice... then no, not really.QuoteI know the old pictures of the Saturn taking off with literally tons of ice breaking off. Seems like those could potentiall cause enough problem of striking the SRB gimbles or just the lower part of the stack, or even damaging the pad that you'd probably want to stick with some type of foam.Pad built strong enough to withstand SRB exhaust is damaged by ice? I don't think so.QuoteLastly, to one of you guys who have all the numbers at your finger tips, could there be even a scaled down version of Jupiter 120 for launching Orion and the SM to the ISS? What I mean by that is could you actually forgo the SRB's for a core with 3 RS68's?Answered (a few times I think) n the old thread. No, it can't be used like this without major redesign (=> major $$$), because in DIRECT configurations the tank is supported by SRBs on the pad. It can't stand like that on its own.
QuoteLastly, to one of you guys who have all the numbers at your finger tips, could there be even a scaled down version of Jupiter 120 for launching Orion and the SM to the ISS? What I mean by that is could you actually forgo the SRB's for a core with 3 RS68's?Answered (a few times I think) n the old thread. No, it can't be used like this without major redesign (=> major $$$), because in DIRECT configurations the tank is supported by SRBs on the pad. It can't stand like that on its own.
My guy tells me the latter should be true...but are these things that have all been absolutely accounted for? Can we even know until a buildable blueprint for the new ET has been done?*shrug*
Quote from: Lobo on 01/13/2009 11:48 pmAlso, I read a bit back someone asking about the insulation. Since Ares or Jupiter would be inline, is the foam neaded?Well, if you are ok with *liquid air* forming on the tank, not counting huge masses of ice... then no, not really.
Incorrect, it is needed. LH2 will not become stable in the tank without it
Quote from: gospacex on 01/14/2009 12:02 amQuote from: Lobo on 01/13/2009 11:48 pmAlso, I read a bit back someone asking about the insulation. Since Ares or Jupiter would be inline, is the foam neaded?Well, if you are ok with *liquid air* forming on the tank, not counting huge masses of ice... then no, not really.Incorrect, it is needed. LH2 will not become stable in the tank without it
First: Any idea of how much it would cost to man-rate the Delta 4?Sounds like it can lift a bit more than Ares 1. But can it carry Orion and the SM dimensionally?The Delta 4 is 16.4 ft dia, and Orion is 16.5 ft. at it's widest.doesn't seem like much, but how much modification to the Delta 4 would be needed to fit the Orion?Also, I read a bit back someone asking about the insulation. Since Ares or Jupiter would be inline, is the foam neaded? And if so, could they go back to the old cheaper foam because it wouldn't matter that it sheds?
Quote from: Jim on 01/14/2009 12:35 amQuote from: gospacex on 01/14/2009 12:02 amQuote from: Lobo on 01/13/2009 11:48 pmAlso, I read a bit back someone asking about the insulation. Since Ares or Jupiter would be inline, is the foam neaded?Well, if you are ok with *liquid air* forming on the tank, not counting huge masses of ice... then no, not really.Incorrect, it is needed. LH2 will not become stable in the tank without itJim, is that why Saturn S-1C stage didn't have external foam insulation, because it was kerosene fuel instead of LH2?