Quote from: GWR64 on 01/13/2023 08:31 amAre there already indications of the cause of failure?Could there be a connection to this change?Quote from: calapine on 12/21/2022 01:42 pmQuote from: hoku on 12/21/2022 10:53 amJust a few facts on the Vega C 2nd stage Zefiro Z-40 solid rocket motor, and how it compares to Z-23. This might help with the upcoming discussions.Another change is in the nozzle joints, respectively their thermal protection.From "Technological and programmatic development of Zefiro 40 Solid Rocket Motor":I have been seeing repeated claims in french and Italian spaceflight communities from AS/Kourou workers that the new Flexible joint, which is supposed to bring down cost and complexity and subcontracted by a new company, is the main suspect of the failure
Are there already indications of the cause of failure?Could there be a connection to this change?Quote from: calapine on 12/21/2022 01:42 pmQuote from: hoku on 12/21/2022 10:53 amJust a few facts on the Vega C 2nd stage Zefiro Z-40 solid rocket motor, and how it compares to Z-23. This might help with the upcoming discussions.Another change is in the nozzle joints, respectively their thermal protection.From "Technological and programmatic development of Zefiro 40 Solid Rocket Motor":
Quote from: hoku on 12/21/2022 10:53 amJust a few facts on the Vega C 2nd stage Zefiro Z-40 solid rocket motor, and how it compares to Z-23. This might help with the upcoming discussions.Another change is in the nozzle joints, respectively their thermal protection.From "Technological and programmatic development of Zefiro 40 Solid Rocket Motor":
Just a few facts on the Vega C 2nd stage Zefiro Z-40 solid rocket motor, and how it compares to Z-23. This might help with the upcoming discussions.
Quote from: TheKutKu on 01/13/2023 09:31 amQuote from: GWR64 on 01/13/2023 08:31 amAre there already indications of the cause of failure?Could there be a connection to this change?Quote from: calapine on 12/21/2022 01:42 pmQuote from: hoku on 12/21/2022 10:53 amJust a few facts on the Vega C 2nd stage Zefiro Z-40 solid rocket motor, and how it compares to Z-23. This might help with the upcoming discussions.Another change is in the nozzle joints, respectively their thermal protection.From "Technological and programmatic development of Zefiro 40 Solid Rocket Motor":I have been seeing repeated claims in french and Italian spaceflight communities from AS/Kourou workers that the new Flexible joint, which is supposed to bring down cost and complexity and subcontracted by a new company, is the main suspect of the failure The design is similar to that on the P80 FW nozzle, or am I wrong?https://www.eucass-proceedings.eu/articles/eucass/pdf/2009/01/eucass1p141.pdf
ESA Director General Josef Aschbacher says he expects the investigation into last month's Vega C launch failure to wrap up on the second half of February. Return to flight as soon as possible but acknowledges need for deep analysis of quality issues with vehicle.
Daniel Neuenschwander, ESA director of space transportation, says that because the Vega C failure involves it second stage, it may be possible to return to flight first with Vega (which uses a different second stage) before Vega C.
A day before the results of the investigation, La Tribune reports that a defect in the Zefiro 40 nozzle throat Causes the failure, the article suggests the blame has been put on Yuzhnoye, its provider, and Avio For selecting the Ukrainian manufacturer.https://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-finance/industrie/aeronautique-defense/vega-c-le-col-de-tuyere-fabrique-en-ukraine-est-a-l-origine-du-crash-du-lanceur-italien-953754.html
ESA's briefing of the Vega C investigation is underway. ESA Director General Josef Aschbacher says he expects a Vega (not Vega C) launch before the end of the summer, as the older version is not affected. Vega C return to flight before the end of the year.
Avio’s Giulio Ranzo says the company selected the carbon-carbon material from Ukraine during the Vega C design effort (2015-17) after concluding existing European suppliers could not provide material in sufficient quantities. "Substantial" testing found no inadequacy with it.
Giovanni Colangelo, co-chair of the independent inquiry, said the carbon-carbon material used in Vega C qualification testing and inaugural flight was better than required, so no erosion issues. Material for failed VV22 material was "exactly in line" with specs; it failed.
Ranzo's statement is only partially correct. There were European suppliers that could provide C-C in sufficient quantities. Just not at the price level sought by Avio.
Oops, so spec wasn’t stringent enough but that was missed because material on initial flights was better than spec?
twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1631590674679070721Quotehttps://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1631592506562363392QuoteGiovanni Colangelo, co-chair of the independent inquiry, said the carbon-carbon material used in Vega C qualification testing and inaugural flight was better than required, so no erosion issues. Material for failed VV22 material was "exactly in line" with specs; it failed....
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1631592506562363392QuoteGiovanni Colangelo, co-chair of the independent inquiry, said the carbon-carbon material used in Vega C qualification testing and inaugural flight was better than required, so no erosion issues. Material for failed VV22 material was "exactly in line" with specs; it failed.
...From the article, Giovanni Colangelo, ESA inspector general and the other co-chair of the investigation is quoted as:>> “The acceptance criteria (the throat ring) were not the right ones” (That's the conclusion of the investigation)>> “The one (the throat ring provided by the supplier) for VV21 VV22 was exactly in line with the specification, so were not as good as the previous one, so that is the reason why there was a failure”.Regardless if the SpaceNews article is correctly indicating VV21 or VV22, as a low-contributing NSF forum lurker, here is my question for this discussion thread - I already guess the answer - If a product supplier delivers a product (such as a throat ring) that meets or exceeds specification, and the product fails, who is at fault?>> The product supplier, for not knowing that the requirements will be exceeded?>> The organization that wrote the specification and failed to properly test for acceptance?And the follow-up question: Is the SpaceNews article correct in the VV21 vs VV22 reference, or incorrect? Can anyone here help clarify? Does the NSF forum have a feature to insert a "bulleted list"? Sorry... too many questions in one forum post.