Wrong, no Thales Alenia in Germany. If Germany has the majority stake in the program... you can imagine how it ends.
Ariane 6 will launch Argonaut in a direct flight to the Moon. 🚀🌑Argonaut is #Europe’s autonomous lunar lander. Designed to be versatile it could bring cargo, a rover, production facilities or even a power station to the Moon: https://esa.int/argonaut
The Modules will remain the same. They have already been negotiated against Orion seats to Gateway.Never seen a negotiation where you get more with the same bargaining chip.
Ok so we are back to my original question.My impression is that Starship with its low operating cost and huge payload to Lunar surface reduces considerably the bargaining power of the pair Ariane 64 / Argonaut. So do I miss something which makes Ariane 64 / Argonaut against ESA astronaut on the surface a palatable deal for NASA much more than I think ?
Quote from: hektor on 02/24/2023 10:50 pmOk so we are back to my original question.My impression is that Starship with its low operating cost and huge payload to Lunar surface reduces considerably the bargaining power of the pair Ariane 64 / Argonaut. So do I miss something which makes Ariane 64 / Argonaut against ESA astronaut on the surface a palatable deal for NASA much more than I think ?I see what you mean but I think that the argument is that NASA and its Artemis partners need small cargo (CLPS), medium (Argonaut) and large cargo capability (cargo HLS-Starship) to the lunar surface. Argonaut would fit into the medium cargo capability.
Quote from: yg1968 on 07/20/2023 02:09 pmQuote from: hektor on 02/24/2023 10:50 pmOk so we are back to my original question.My impression is that Starship with its low operating cost and huge payload to Lunar surface reduces considerably the bargaining power of the pair Ariane 64 / Argonaut. So do I miss something which makes Ariane 64 / Argonaut against ESA astronaut on the surface a palatable deal for NASA much more than I think ?I see what you mean but I think that the argument is that NASA and its Artemis partners need small cargo (CLPS), medium (Argonaut) and large cargo capability (cargo HLS-Starship) to the lunar surface. Argonaut would fit into the medium cargo capability.The argument for three sizes is only valid if smaller is cheaper. IF starship works at all, and IF (big if) an expendable Starship is cheaper (single unit cost) than a smaller launcher, then this argument disappears. Of course Starship will also crush the competition for any lunar destination that is the target of multiple payloads that are collectively too large for the smaller landers. The huge Starship may end up being cheaper than smaller landers because Starships are to be made in high volume from cheap standardized materials. Finally, a landed expended Starship is a resource that can be used as is or broken up for parts and materials.
As an alternative to increase Ariane 6 performances, we are looking at in-orbit refueling, working on an Argonaut concept with in-orbit refueling to increase its performance. So, with two Ariane 6s, we launch a full reservoir and an Argonaut with its payload and little fuel. Then we will dock to the tank to refuel. This scenario gives a big increase in performance to get cargo to the Moon surface. Argonaut is a European lunar lander that will provide autonomous access to the Moon for Europe, allowing us to play a major role on the surface of our natural satellite. In the 2030s, Argonaut, launched on Ariane 6, will deliver up to 2,100 kg of cargo to the Moon’s surface.
