Author Topic: Cosmos - A New Series Begins  (Read 28691 times)

Offline hopalong

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Re: Cosmos - A New Series Begins
« Reply #60 on: 03/16/2014 05:17 PM »
It is on the National Geographic Channel - the wife has already put it on series link on the Sky+ box  :D

Offline bubbagret

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Re: Cosmos - A New Series Begins
« Reply #61 on: 03/16/2014 05:49 PM »
What's left is magic. And it doesn't work.
— James Randi

Pure science wouldn't say this. Far too many things that we take for granted today were yesterday's magic. Things like flight, electricity, wireless communications, televisions, alpha and beta brain waves, radiation sickness, etc, etc, etc. Magic, as opposed to slight-of-hand, is simply an event, capability or occurrence that can't be explained by the known laws of science, that appear to operate outside those laws, or in opposition to those laws. There is far more about how the universe works that we do not understand than we do understand. So-called magic eventually turns out to be such new understanding. To say magic doesn't work is to assume that we already know all there is to know. Usually magic turns into real science as our understanding increases. Just because we don't understand how something works, or can't explain it within the framework of known science does not invalidate it when it clearly works. To discount it is not science - it is ignorance. The first and most important tenet of real science is to acknowledge how much we do not understand, not to flaunt how little we do.

magic
noun    (Concise Encyclopedia)

"Use of means (such as charms or spells) believed to have supernatural power over natural forces. It constitutes the core of many religious systems and plays a central social role in many nonliterate cultures. Magic is often distinguished from religion as being more impersonal and mechanical and emphasizing technique. Its techniques are usually regarded as means to specific ends (an enemy’s defeat, rainfall, etc.), although another view ascribes a more symbolic, expressive character to such activity. Thus, a rainmaking ritual may both elicit rainfall and stress the symbolic importance of rain and the agricultural activities associated with it. Both the magician and the magical rite are typically surrounded by taboos, purification procedures, and other activities that draw the participants into the magical sphere. Strains of magic in Western tradition, formerly associated with heretics, alchemists, witches, and sorcerers, persist in modern times in the activities of satanists and others. The art of entertaining by performing apparently magical feats (sometimes called conjuring) relies on the use of sleight of hand and other means. See also shaman, vodun, witchcraft and sorcery."

Magic is a term applied to something that is not comprehended or that goes against known theories. "Its techniques are usually regarded as means to specific ends (an enemy’s defeat, rainfall, etc.)". Science is a tool used to try to define the "why" or "how" of something rather than the term magic being applied to something that is not comprehended, with no attempt to explain the "why" or "how". So yes, science is used to explain exactly why something is not magic. Magic = a speculative explanation without basis, enforced ignorance. science = an attempt at understanding, knowledge. The exact opposite of one another.

Regardless, it is just an opinion thread about the new show. I myself do not see much good about it, hopefully it will be more beneficial to other people. Finding knowledge and learning to question things that you don't understand I see as a good thing, and it seems that isn't being taught enough anymore. So hopefully this new series will morph in to more of a teaching and questioning experience.

Offline clongton

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Re: Cosmos - A New Series Begins
« Reply #62 on: 03/16/2014 07:04 PM »
...

Really not worth pursuing but the Cosmos series will explore and explain many things, provided it follows the Sagan model, that would have been called magic by more ancient peoples. For example heal a person with an infection in the 10th century by giving them an antibiotic and you would likely be accused of and executed for performing magic and sorcery.

That's all I was saying.
Keep and open mind about things we don't understand and you will learn much.
Keep a closed mind about things we don't understand and you will learn very little.
Hopefully this new series will encourage the former, not the latter.
Chuck - DIRECT co-founder
I started my career on the Saturn-V F-1A engine

Offline Star One

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Re: Cosmos - A New Series Begins
« Reply #63 on: 03/17/2014 06:27 AM »
Pretty good first episode. The last five minutes where Tyson was talking about meeting Carl Sagan was probably the best of it. The bit about Bruno started off interesting but then went on too long.

Offline wjbarnett

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Re: Cosmos - A New Series Begins
« Reply #64 on: 03/17/2014 12:57 PM »
Anyone find a streaming link for episode two?
Jack
Twitter: wjackbarnett

Offline bad_astra

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Re: Cosmos - A New Series Begins
« Reply #65 on: 03/17/2014 02:12 PM »
Enjoyed the second episode. Good explanation of biological processes for persons pushed through the American school system. It may be slightly less erudite than the original Cosmos, but I think part of the show's damage control must be reintroducing a great many people in this country to concepts they abandoned in lieu of nonsense their preachers have been spoon feeding them to keep money in the coffers.

"Contact Light" -Buzz Aldrin

Offline NovaSilisko

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Re: Cosmos - A New Series Begins
« Reply #66 on: 03/17/2014 07:47 PM »
Episode 2 was grand, definitely an improvement over the first. I only hope they keep at this level!

Offline rayleighscatter

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Re: Cosmos - A New Series Begins
« Reply #67 on: 03/17/2014 11:58 PM »
Enjoyed the second episode. Good explanation of biological processes for persons pushed through the American school system. It may be slightly less erudite than the original Cosmos, but I think part of the show's damage control must be reintroducing a great many people in this country to concepts they abandoned in lieu of nonsense their preachers have been spoon feeding them to keep money in the coffers.

Ironic that you find it as a plus and I find it as a minus. Taking a factual explanation of science and the universe and injecting opinions on religion (in both episodes so far) means many people will walk away from an episode knowing they were presented both fact and opinion. From then on they will view the show knowing there is both fact and opinion presented and will try to parse the two, and many will inevitably get things wrong. Is the segment about how dogs were domesticated fact or opinion? Is the segment about the reproduction DNA fact or opinion? Is the segment about intelligent design being wrong but evolution being "spiritual" fact or opinion? It's interesting because it's something I've noticed its something people on this forum normally police rather vigorously, the presentation of opinion as fact.

People will walk away from the show asking themselves this when instead they could have walked away without these being questions at all.
« Last Edit: 03/18/2014 12:00 AM by rayleighscatter »

Offline ß-OriCinco

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Re: Cosmos - A New Series Begins
« Reply #68 on: 03/18/2014 02:20 AM »
Agree.

I'm not enjoying this series as much as I thought I would.  He is presenting more questions than facts with an apparent anti-religious objective.  Then he flys off to space with this leading expectation that because his theories of evolution on Earth are supposedly so self evident, there must be large creature swimming around in the totally non-explorable / never to be seen depths of Titan in a methane ocean *and* is supposedly breathing hydrogen or acetylene. 

Full tilt.

Sheesh... You need greater faith to believe him without any facts than on any ordinary Sunday morning.  If humans are actually survivors of FIVE epic planetary extinction events, that's all the proof I need for my beliefs.
« Last Edit: 03/18/2014 02:28 AM by ß-OriCinco »

Offline JohnnyNonsense

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Re: Cosmos - A New Series Begins
« Reply #69 on: 03/18/2014 03:09 AM »
There were some good moments, but Tyson lacks the earnestness of Sagan. And a large chunk of the episode was a cartoon about the small minds of the Middle Ages. Seemed dark and out of place.


Much the same could be said about the original series too. Sagan's understanding of the history of science was a caricature.  from what little I have seen and read of Tyson he is no different.  So I would expect more of the same unfortunately.

The whole point of the Bruno segment was to illustrate the repression suffered by science-minded people  (free thinkers in general) at the hands of the church.  It is obvious that the dialog in the cartoon was manufactured (just like it is with every other biopic), but it is based on fact.  It illustrated just how difficult it was to advance the state of science back then.  Those people deserve our admiration and respect.  No, they didn't talk about the other charges of heresy (for which he also did not deserve to die), but that was not important in the context of the program.

Offline bad_astra

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Re: Cosmos - A New Series Begins
« Reply #70 on: 03/18/2014 10:31 AM »

Ironic that you find it as a plus and I find it as a minus. Taking a factual explanation of science and the universe and injecting opinions on religion (in both episodes so far) means many people will walk away from an episode knowing they were presented both fact and opinion. From then on they will view the show knowing there is both fact and opinion presented and will try to parse the two, and many will inevitably get things wrong. Is the segment about how dogs were domesticated fact or opinion? Is the segment about the reproduction DNA fact or opinion? Is the segment about intelligent design being wrong but evolution being "spiritual" fact or opinion? It's interesting because it's something I've noticed its something people on this forum normally police rather vigorously, the presentation of opinion as fact.

People will walk away from the show asking themselves this when instead they could have walked away without these being questions at all.

Dogs domestication by humans from wolves is, yes, fact. I'm not getting into crackpot creationist or flat-eather theories.
"Contact Light" -Buzz Aldrin

Online Robotbeat

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Re: Cosmos - A New Series Begins
« Reply #71 on: 03/18/2014 12:10 PM »
The way to teach science to the tribalistic masses isn't by tribalistic one-sided truth-telling. It's by making the message clear to them in a way that, even if it does challenge their worldview, is done to bring them into the fold. For instance, sure mention how Bruno was persecuted for challenging the religious status quo, but mention the political intrigue involved as well. Also, make sure to mention that the Big Bang itself was discovered by a Belgian Catholic priest, Georges Lemaître (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre ), which challenged a lot of the philosophical assumptions at the time (many scientists had assumed the universe was infinitely old and many initially dismissed the idea of the Big Bang as religious nonsense).

You won't convince many people to "convert" to a scientific worldview by challenging head-on (and one-sided) like that. You'll just lose them to deeper tribalistic madness.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Robert Thompson

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Re: Cosmos - A New Series Begins
« Reply #72 on: 03/24/2014 07:43 AM »

Dr. Neil DeGrasse Tyson: A fascinatingly disturbing thought
2:00 - 4:00 "It is the universe itself that exists within us"

A sample of his approach to the spiritual concept that came up in the first or second episode. It is an antidote to assumptions of special creation. It does not arise spontaneously or without basis.

Offline Hog

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Re: Cosmos - A New Series Begins
« Reply #73 on: 03/24/2014 12:53 PM »
Good episode last night.  I didnt know that Newton almost didnt get published.  I hope I see Halley's comet again in July 2061 to see Halley's Comet again, but it's unlikely I'll make 86.

Maybe we will have made it to Mars by then?
Paul

Online Robotbeat

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Re: Cosmos - A New Series Begins
« Reply #74 on: 03/24/2014 04:29 PM »
Good episode last night.  I didnt know that Newton almost didnt get published.  I hope I see Halley's comet again in July 2061 to see Halley's Comet again, but it's unlikely I'll make 86.

Maybe we will have made it to Mars by then?
The older you get, the more likely you'll hit 86.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Robert Thompson

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Re: Cosmos - A New Series Begins
« Reply #75 on: 03/25/2014 01:10 AM »
The closer you are to danger, the farther you are from harm.

Offline Hog

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Re: Cosmos - A New Series Begins
« Reply #76 on: 03/31/2014 02:41 PM »
Another great episode last night.  A blatant dimissal of the belief that the Earth is 6500 years old, as we are seeing things that much much older, simply because of the speed of light. Lots of explainations of certain topics that are difficult for people to visualize.
Paul

Offline Star One

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Re: Cosmos - A New Series Begins
« Reply #77 on: 01/13/2018 10:28 PM »
The show has been renewed for a second season which will air in the spring of 2019.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/13/16888864/neil-degrasse-tyson-cosmos-second-season-fox-national-geographic-science

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Cosmos - A New Series Begins
« Reply #78 on: 01/14/2018 02:29 AM »
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline katenewman

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Re: Cosmos - A New Series Begins
« Reply #79 on: 01/15/2018 09:11 AM »
Quote
The show has been renewed for a second season which will air in the spring of 2019.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/13/16888864/neil-degrasse-tyson-cosmos-second-season-fox-national-geographic-science

Can't wait for the new series, I miss Neil DeGrasse voice so much. At least we've got enough time to re-watch season one ;)
« Last Edit: 01/15/2018 09:12 AM by katenewman »

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