Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 First Landing Discussion--Historic!  (Read 114995 times)

Offline TheTraveller

Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 First Landing Discussion--Historic!
« Reply #20 on: 12/22/2015 02:17 am »
Does anyone have any concerns with what they saw as the rocket came to rest?  Other threads mentioned some potential concerns with the flames below the engine.

Burning paint from "X" marks the spot?
It Is Time For The EmDrive To Come Out Of The Shadows

Offline Moe Grills

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 First Landing Discussion--Historic!
« Reply #21 on: 12/22/2015 02:21 am »
Reusable rocket section; no longer discusses future or science fiction possibilities. It's here now!!!

Offline AncientU

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 First Landing Discussion--Historic!
« Reply #22 on: 12/22/2015 02:22 am »
Bottom of the landed stage looks toasty.  INTACT... But toasty. 

It is made of heat treated aluminum, mostly, and I am hoping that the landing heating did not have a bad effect on the aluminum structure materials properties.  I am guessing this would be one area of extensive analysis that this  spaceframe will be subjected to...  Along with a lot of other things, engines, etc.  I would NOT be surprised to see just the engines reused before the whole vehicle.  But what do I know....

Remember that the tanks were fully pressurized at landing.  If there was a structural issue, they would have informed us all.  Four burns for one of the engines... designed for ten (maybe a hundred) uses -- I'll go with the design team instead of worry trolling. 

Extensive analysis will be inspection (electronic and visual), reloading fuel and lighting the fuse.
« Last Edit: 12/22/2015 02:23 am by AncientU »
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Online Herb Schaltegger

Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 First Landing Discussion--Historic!
« Reply #23 on: 12/22/2015 02:27 am »
Bottom of the landed stage looks toasty.  INTACT... But toasty. 

It is made of heat treated aluminum, mostly, and I am hoping that the landing heating did not have a bad effect on the aluminum structure materials properties.  I am guessing this would be one area of extensive analysis that this  spaceframe will be subjected to...  Along with a lot of other things, engines, etc.  I would NOT be surprised to see just the engines reused before the whole vehicle.  But what do I know....

Remember that the tanks were fully pressurized at landing.  If there was a structural issue, they would have informed us all.  Four burns for one of the engines... designed for ten (maybe a hundred) uses -- I'll go with the design team instead of worry trolling. 

Extensive analysis will be inspection (electronic and visual), reloading fuel and lighting the fuse.

Actually, my gut guess is the limiting factor will be cycles on the composite He tanks. As we all learned in the discussions immediately after CRS7, composite tanks don't generally like being immersed in cryogenics. So it may be that after every flight, those tanks have to be replaced or at least inspected. Or perhaps it'll be a cycle-count thing, like airframe cycles which drive FAA inspection requirements. Time will tell.

But they will be interesting times, won't they?
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Offline hrissan

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 First Landing Discussion--Historic!
« Reply #24 on: 12/22/2015 02:27 am »
Is there a fire going there at the base of the rocket after the landing? Hopefully the stage is ok, provided there seems no fire cannons on the landing pad.

Offline AncientU

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 First Landing Discussion--Historic!
« Reply #25 on: 12/22/2015 02:31 am »
Bottom of the landed stage looks toasty.  INTACT... But toasty. 

It is made of heat treated aluminum, mostly, and I am hoping that the landing heating did not have a bad effect on the aluminum structure materials properties.  I am guessing this would be one area of extensive analysis that this  spaceframe will be subjected to...  Along with a lot of other things, engines, etc.  I would NOT be surprised to see just the engines reused before the whole vehicle.  But what do I know....

Remember that the tanks were fully pressurized at landing.  If there was a structural issue, they would have informed us all.  Four burns for one of the engines... designed for ten (maybe a hundred) uses -- I'll go with the design team instead of worry trolling. 

Extensive analysis will be inspection (electronic and visual), reloading fuel and lighting the fuse.

Actually, my gut guess is the limiting factor will be cycles on the composite He tanks. As we all learned in the discussions immediately after CRS7, composite tanks don't generally like being immersed in cryogenics. So it may be that after every flight, those tanks have to be replaced or at least inspected. Or perhaps it'll be a cycle-count thing, like airframe cycles which drive FAA inspection requirements. Time will tell.

But they will be interesting times, won't they?

What will be interesting is when Bezos and several others work on their orbital rocket reusability schemes.  SpaceX has presented one path -- not the only path.  There should be some interesting 60s-style conflagrations for all to view.  Might even find out just how difficult/unique this historic event was.
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Offline Kabloona

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 First Landing Discussion--Historic!
« Reply #26 on: 12/22/2015 02:33 am »
Is there a fire going there at the base of the rocket after the landing? Hopefully the stage is ok, provided there seems no fire cannons on the landing pad.

Probably just the RP-1 residuals.

Offline Moe Grills

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 First Landing Discussion--Historic!
« Reply #27 on: 12/22/2015 02:35 am »
  Next step: make the second stage reusable.
Can it be done?
IMHO , yes!!!

I'm no professional engineer, but I would fit a clip-on/clip-off ablative disposable heat-shield to a second stage.
Fit it it with streamlined 'blister' compartments on the outside to house chutes, transmitter-beacons, avionics.
Add snagging hooks on the parachute lines so that the second-stage can be snagged in midair by a modified aircraft with a wide open tail-maw to receive the winched up 2'd stage (It has been done before on a smaller scale on the 'top-secret' Project Discovery return photo capsules (1960)).
Can any of you suggest better?

Offline QuantumG

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Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline AncientU

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 First Landing Discussion--Historic!
« Reply #29 on: 12/22/2015 02:41 am »
  Next step: make the second stage reusable.
Can it be done?
IMHO , yes!!!

I'm no professional engineer, but I would fit a clip-on/clip-off ablative disposable heat-shield to a second stage.
Fit it it with streamlined 'blister' compartments on the outside to house chutes, transmitter-beacons, avionics.
Add snagging hooks on the parachute lines so that the second-stage can be snagged in midair by a modified aircraft with a wide open tail-maw to receive the winched up 2'd stage (It has been done before on a smaller scale on the 'top-secret' Project Discovery return photo capsules (1960)).
Can any of you suggest better?

They have been quite focused on second stage de-orbit burns... for the future (and not just the future of sending burning debris Earthward).  I suspect they have a nice data collection on reentering second stages for reuse... tankers and small-sat buses are my guesses as first commercially viable options.  Tonight's multi-sat dispenser could have been reusable... will be when SpaceX's constellation of 4,000 sats is launched.
"If we shared everything [we are working on] people would think we are insane!"
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Offline MarcAlain

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 First Landing Discussion--Historic!
« Reply #30 on: 12/22/2015 02:44 am »
This one's going to the Smithsonian... next one (won't be long).

Last I heard they had nixed that possibility. It will be tested and will fly again if it passes.

https://twitter.com/NASAWatch/status/679129749105459200

Nope, being kept.

Offline jfallen

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 First Landing Discussion--Historic!
« Reply #31 on: 12/22/2015 02:44 am »
Photo from Elon's tweet.  That's a good looking rocket.

Offline AncientU

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 First Landing Discussion--Historic!
« Reply #32 on: 12/22/2015 02:46 am »
http://www.spacex.com/news/2015/12/21/background-tonights-launch

The last sentence is just pure gold.

Wow!  Estimation of EM up one notch (make that two).
Just burning off nervous energy at the cape while awaiting history.  I suspect what he wrote will become part of the history.
"If we shared everything [we are working on] people would think we are insane!"
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Online abaddon

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 First Landing Discussion--Historic!
« Reply #33 on: 12/22/2015 02:47 am »
Will be interesting to see in the morning how close to center they landed.
I imagine it will be in a horizontal position before then.  I wouldn't want to leave it sitting there any longer than I had to personally.  Imagine a stress fracture in one of the legs or something, it'd be tragic (and possibly very dangerous) to lose the stage that way.

Offline jfallen

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 First Landing Discussion--Historic!
« Reply #34 on: 12/22/2015 02:52 am »
A still from the twitter video at Landing Zone 1.

Offline inventodoc

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 First Landing Discussion--Historic!
« Reply #35 on: 12/22/2015 02:57 am »
i don't see the X. Can anyone determine where on the pad it landed? I'm guessing towards the periphery based on the position of lights but this could be wrong.

Offline AS-503

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 First Landing Discussion--Historic!
« Reply #36 on: 12/22/2015 02:58 am »
Full clip  from LZ-1.

Offline Kabloona

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 First Landing Discussion--Historic!
« Reply #37 on: 12/22/2015 03:02 am »
Will be interesting to see in the morning how close to center they landed.
I imagine it will be in a horizontal position before then.  I wouldn't want to leave it sitting there any longer than I had to personally.  Imagine a stress fracture in one of the legs or something, it'd be tragic (and possibly very dangerous) to lose the stage that way.

I may be wrong but I don't expect they want to be doing crane ops at night. It'll take time to safe and cool off. There's no big hurry. Plus Elon will probably want some photo ops with the stage upright in daylight.

Offline Johnnyhinbos

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 First Landing Discussion--Historic!
« Reply #38 on: 12/22/2015 03:07 am »
Does this help re centering?
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Offline inventodoc

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 First Landing Discussion--Historic!
« Reply #39 on: 12/22/2015 03:10 am »
okay then i was wrong. what a bullseye!

thanks for the awesome image.

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