Author Topic: Tiangong - Chinese Space Station  (Read 261755 times)

Offline Liss

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #180 on: 05/29/2018 06:24 pm »
Are they using WGS84?

I don not know.   I had assumed that they had their own model.
They use height above medium Earth radius of 6370.97 km.
Chinese heights when announced precisely are 7.1-7.2 km higher than Sven Grahn's RepeatPatternX program show for the same repeat pattern. I assume the model is the same but Sven's reference is 6378.14 km.
Medium orbital height from TLE related to the same 6378.14 km reference is usually 3.0-3.1 km higher than Sven's and 4.0 km less than the Chinese one.

Examples (Sven -- TLE -- Chinese):
HJ-1A/B: 641.9 -- 644.9 -- 649.1
GF-1: 637.4  -- 640.6 -- 644.5
GF-2: 624.4 -- 627.5 -- 631.6
ZY-3: 498.8 -- 502.7 -- 506.0
HJ-1C: 492.1 -- 495.1 -- 499.3


« Last Edit: 05/29/2018 06:26 pm by Liss »
This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Offline Star One

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #181 on: 06/01/2018 08:44 pm »
Lot of sourcing on this article.

Here’s what we know about China’s future space station

https://qz.com/1292014/heres-what-we-know-about-chinas-future-space-station/amp/

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #182 on: 06/02/2018 07:42 am »
Here's the UN China Space Station handbook.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Sizzy

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #183 on: 07/05/2018 03:38 pm »
some pics about the core modlue practise

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #184 on: 07/09/2018 10:42 pm »
New article with updated launch schedule.

2020 Tianhe
2021 Wentian
2022 Mengtian
2021-2022 3-4 Shenzhou and several Tianzhou

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-07/08/c_137310103.htm

"BEIJING, July 8 (Xinhua) -- China is accelerating its timetable for a space station, with the core capsule expected to be launched in 2020, says Yang Liwei, director of the China Manned Space Engineering Office and the country's first astronaut.

Yang told Chinese media recently that the two experiment modules of the space station will be sent into space in 2021 and 2022. Three or four manned missions and several cargo spacecraft are planned in 2021 and 2022.

After construction of the main parts of the space station, a capsule holding a large optical telescope will be sent into the same orbit to fly with the station, Yang said.

During construction of the station, the number of manned space missions will rise to about five a year, compared with once every two or three years when China began sending astronauts into space more than a decade ago. Astronaut recruitment will be expanded."
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline zandr

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #185 on: 08/18/2018 11:54 am »
China completes 1st test on propulsion system for space experiment module
Quote
XI'AN, Aug. 17 (Xinhua) -- Chinese researchers have successfully completed the first test of the propulsion system for the experiment module of the country's planned space station.
The test consisted of eight procedures that covered all working conditions of an in-orbit experiment module. It also simulated possible errors the module may encounter in space, according to a research institute affiliated with China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation (CASC).
The test proved that the design of the propulsion system was scientific and its parameters setting was correct, according to the institute.
Two experiment modules of China's planned space station will be sent into space in 2021 and 2022, according to Yang Liwei, director of the China Manned Space Engineering Office and the country's first astronaut.
China is accelerating its timetable for a space station, with the core capsule expected to be launched in 2020, said Yang.

Offline zandr

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #186 on: 08/18/2018 12:04 pm »
China tests propulsion system of space station's lab capsules
Quote
BEIJING, Aug. 18 (Xinhua) -- Engineers have successfully tested the propulsion system of China's planned space station lab capsules, a key step in its space station program.
Weighing 66 tonnes, the space station will comprise a core module and two lab capsules. The propulsion system will determine whether lab capsules can move in space.
Engineers designed 36 engines for the propulsion system with four to adjust the capsules' operation orbit and 32 to adjust flight attitude. Each engine is designed to work for at least 15 years, according to the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation (CASC), the main manufacturer of the space station.
The engines worked well and passed tests in Shanghai, said the CASC.

Offline Archibald

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #187 on: 08/19/2018 06:46 am »
It might be interesting to try some comparison with Mir.

At 65 tons with three large modules in a T-shape, it will somewhat look like Mir as of 1990. That is - DOS-7 + Kvant-1 + Kvant-2 + Kristall. With Tianzhou playing the role of the FGB tug - and Progress altogether.

I'm not surprised either than the annual number of Shenzhou flights surges to 5 a year: that's pretty much Soyuz flight rate since Salyut 6 in 1978, up to the ISS days.
« Last Edit: 08/19/2018 06:48 am by Archibald »
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Offline Star One

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #188 on: 08/19/2018 11:34 am »
It might be interesting to try some comparison with Mir.

At 65 tons with three large modules in a T-shape, it will somewhat look like Mir as of 1990. That is - DOS-7 + Kvant-1 + Kvant-2 + Kristall. With Tianzhou playing the role of the FGB tug - and Progress altogether.

I'm not surprised either than the annual number of Shenzhou flights surges to 5 a year: that's pretty much Soyuz flight rate since Salyut 6 in 1978, up to the ISS days.

I remember the others but what was DOS-7, was it the base module that the others were connected to?

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #189 on: 08/19/2018 11:43 am »
It might be interesting to try some comparison with Mir.

At 65 tons with three large modules in a T-shape, it will somewhat look like Mir as of 1990. That is - DOS-7 + Kvant-1 + Kvant-2 + Kristall. With Tianzhou playing the role of the FGB tug - and Progress altogether.

I'm not surprised either than the annual number of Shenzhou flights surges to 5 a year: that's pretty much Soyuz flight rate since Salyut 6 in 1978, up to the ISS days.

I remember the others but what was DOS-7, was it the base module that the others were connected to?
Yup, the Mir Core Module. DOS-8 is Zvezda.
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Offline TripleSeven

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #190 on: 08/19/2018 12:27 pm »
It will be interesting to see what they do with the station...so far a real use for space stations has escaped the US and USSR/Russia...other than just "doing space" it does not seem to be designed for anything in particular...

Offline Lar

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #191 on: 08/20/2018 02:56 am »
It will be interesting to see what they do with the station...so far a real use for space stations has escaped the US and USSR/Russia...other than just "doing space" it does not seem to be designed for anything in particular...
ISS has had a large number of useful experiments, also there has been experience gained around ECLSS as well as long duration effects of weightlessness.

It's kind of a canard that there is no real use for stations. It might be true that the knowledge might be gained at a cost that some might not consider a good value, but to say no knowledge, no use? Not a very useful post since the truth is different.
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Offline Star One

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Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #192 on: 08/20/2018 06:21 am »
It will be interesting to see what they do with the station...so far a real use for space stations has escaped the US and USSR/Russia...other than just "doing space" it does not seem to be designed for anything in particular...
ISS has had a large number of useful experiments, also there has been experience gained around ECLSS as well as long duration effects of weightlessness.

It's kind of a canard that there is no real use for stations. It might be true that the knowledge might be gained at a cost that some might not consider a good value, but to say no knowledge, no use? Not a very useful post since the truth is different.

To add there was a short news piece in a recent issue of New Scientist talking about how there was concern at ISS ending in 2024 because a number of the longer term scientific experiments wouldn’t be finished by then, and how difficult and costly it would be to complete them in other ways.
« Last Edit: 08/20/2018 06:21 am by Star One »

Offline TripleSeven

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #193 on: 08/20/2018 06:45 am »
It will be interesting to see what they do with the station...so far a real use for space stations has escaped the US and USSR/Russia...other than just "doing space" it does not seem to be designed for anything in particular...
ISS has had a large number of useful experiments, also there has been experience gained around ECLSS as well as long duration effects of weightlessness.

It's kind of a canard that there is no real use for stations. It might be true that the knowledge might be gained at a cost that some might not consider a good value, but to say no knowledge, no use? Not a very useful post since the truth is different.

ISS is in my view essential to a space future now.  There is nothing it does that "makes money" but since we are going to spend the money anyway.  It is the magnet that will, if the money is spent well, allow private enterprise to develop the keys (parts) to allow "someone" to put them together and make money with those parts.

The point I inelegantly made was that none of the claims for what it would do which were made in the 1980 period as the build was argued for...have occurred or are likely to.  And it seems the Chinese are building one, to build one.  They have the money.



Offline Olaf

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #194 on: 08/22/2018 07:27 am »
https://twitter.com/Yeqzids/status/1031971492916027393
Quote
Launch date of China's Space Station Telescope slipped from 2022 to 2024. Via @Skywatcher2018 's post relaying a talk at the #IAU2018.


https://skyweek.wordpress.com/2018/08/20/das-ist-chinas-version-von-hubble-start-2024/

Offline zandr

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #195 on: 09/27/2018 05:11 am »
http://russian.news.cn/2018-09/26/c_137493976.htm
Translation
Quote
Key technical issues on the Chinese space station have been resolved, 13 flight missions are planned for its creation-the Deputy head of the office
Beijing, September 26 / Xinhua / -- Key technical issues related to the main systems of the Chinese space station have been resolved - 13 flight missions are planned for its creation. This was stated on Wednesday in Beijing, the Deputy head of the office of the manned space program of China Lin Xiqiang.
The Chinese space station should be built approximately in 2022. The process includes three stages: testing of key technologies, construction and commissioning of the space station.
"In particular, during the testing phase is scheduled for 6 missions, including the first flight of the carrier rocket "chanchzhen-5" /Long March-5B/, in the construction phase - 7 missions, including the launches of modules I and II," - said Lin, Sician during the presentation of the achievements of the Program of manned space exploration...

Offline zandr

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #196 on: 09/27/2018 05:13 am »
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-09/26/c_137494673.htm
Quote
China to conduct large-scale experiments in space station
BEIJING, Sept. 26 (Xinhua) -- China will carry out large-scale scientific experiments on space application projects after the completion of China's space station, according to a news briefing on China's space projects Wednesday.
China's manned space station is planned to be completed around 2022 and will be in orbit for more than 10 years.
"After the completion of the space station, space experiments and applications will become the main focus of the project," said Lin Xiqiang, deputy director of the China Manned Space Engineering Office, at the briefing.
Lyu Congmin, deputy chief designer of the space station's application system, said the space station will be a platform for more frontier space science experiments and applications.
"We have planned more than 13 laboratories and experimental platforms in the space station. A large optical telescope will be sent into the same orbit to fly with the station," Lyu said. "We will conduct more than 30 research projects in eight areas, including space astronomy, space life science and biotechnology, microgravity fundamental physics and space materials."
"The space station can support space applications in and out of the cabin, and the payload can be adjusted in orbit," said Lin. "I believe the large-scale experiments will bring more important achievements with international influence and application value."

Offline B. Hendrickx

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #197 on: 10/03/2018 07:27 am »
In a May 2015 interview with the RIA Novosti news agency, the deputy general director of the Russian Nudelman Precision Engineering Design Bureau (KB Tochmash) Vladimir Slobodchikov disclosed that his company was planning to build a lidar to be used in a "spacecraft docking system" of an unidentified foreign partner. "Basically, it is an information exchange system for space vehicles. The instrument can be used both as a detector and as a rangefinder. Currently we are holding talks and the technical specifications have been agreed upon", he said. The interview (in Russian) is here:

https://ria.ru/interview/20150519/1065282573.html

KB Tochmash is a weapons manufacturer whose main role in the space program so far has been to build anti-satellite weapons and it is not impossible that the lidar has its roots in one of those programs.

The only foreign partner that builds spacecraft docking systems and is not involved in ISS is China, so is KB Tochmash building a laser rangefinder for Shenzhou and/or Tianzhou dockings with the Chinese modular space station? And why would China have to rely on Russia to deliver such a system?

KB Tochmash's annual report for 2013 (the only one available online) mentions a contract signed with China on a research project called "Counter-terrorism" ("Antiterror"). This is obviously not related to the lidar, but it does show that KB Tochmash has done business with China before. The annual report (a RAR file in Russian) is here:

https://e-disclosure.ru/portal/FileLoad.ashx?Fileid=908225
(see p. 14)


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« Last Edit: 10/04/2018 01:56 pm by eeergo »
-DaviD-

Offline zandr

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #199 on: 10/04/2018 07:51 pm »
https://ria.ru/space/20181004/1529951942.html
Translation
Quote
SAMARA, Oct 4 — RIA Novosti. Scientists of the Samara national research University in cooperation with the Beijing Institute of space engineering are developing equipment for joint research on the Chinese space station, the press service of the Samara University said on Thursday.
...
"It is planned that after the tests and relevant improvements, the final versions of scientific devices will be created for joint scientific research on the Chinese space station in 2021 within the framework of the Russian-Chinese project," the press service of Voronov quotes.
...
« Last Edit: 10/04/2018 07:53 pm by zandr »

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