Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION  (Read 713621 times)

Offline Prober

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #40 on: 08/01/2012 05:41 pm »
Imaging that forthcoming Progress M-15M docking would have success. How do you think if it's teoretically feasibly to make any agreement between Roscosmos and NASA to downmass KURS-NA internal equipment onboard Dragon CRS SpX-1 in case such a need arises to analyse system malfunction?

good idea.  But since the shuttle is now gone, downmass costs are at a premium.   NASA will have to charge 1 million dollars a pound to return the KURS-NA.   These costs can be bartered against the 60 million dollar launch costs Roscosmos charges.
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Offline Lars_J

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #41 on: 08/01/2012 05:57 pm »
Imaging that forthcoming Progress M-15M docking would have success. How do you think if it's teoretically feasibly to make any agreement between Roscosmos and NASA to downmass KURS-NA internal equipment onboard Dragon CRS SpX-1 in case such a need arises to analyse system malfunction?

good idea.  But since the shuttle is now gone, downmass costs are at a premium.   NASA will have to charge 1 million dollars a pound to return the KURS-NA.   These costs can be bartered against the 60 million dollar launch costs Roscosmos charges.

I thought the Russians regularly returned Progress KURS equipment in Soyuz - is that not the case?

Offline Comga

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #42 on: 08/01/2012 08:12 pm »
Imaging that forthcoming Progress M-15M docking would have success. How do you think if it's teoretically feasibly to make any agreement between Roscosmos and NASA to downmass KURS-NA internal equipment onboard Dragon CRS SpX-1 in case such a need arises to analyse system malfunction?

good idea.  But since the shuttle is now gone, downmass costs are at a premium.   NASA will have to charge 1 million dollars a pound to return the KURS-NA.   These costs can be bartered against the 60 million dollar launch costs Roscosmos charges.

The Shuttle is irrelevant.  His question was about bringing down the KURS-NA internal equipment in the CRS-1 Dragon.

"Downmass costs" aren't "at a premium". That doesn't make gramatical sense.  With Dragon performing CRS there is a much larger dowmass limit, whose price is already negotiated.  edit: It's close to $1K/lb, not $1M.  3000 kg/Dragon

It's more valuable than garbage, and bringing it down clears out the volume on the station.  The issue is one of resource allocation, whether NASA has reason to give some their limited downmass capacity to the Russian partner, and what NASA has already planned to put into the departing CRS-1 Dragon.
« Last Edit: 08/01/2012 08:20 pm by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline Prober

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #43 on: 08/01/2012 08:15 pm »
Imaging that forthcoming Progress M-15M docking would have success. How do you think if it's teoretically feasibly to make any agreement between Roscosmos and NASA to downmass KURS-NA internal equipment onboard Dragon CRS SpX-1 in case such a need arises to analyse system malfunction?

good idea.  But since the shuttle is now gone, downmass costs are at a premium.   NASA will have to charge 1 million dollars a pound to return the KURS-NA.   These costs can be bartered against the 60 million dollar launch costs Roscosmos charges.

I thought the Russians regularly returned Progress KURS equipment in Soyuz - is that not the case?

Danderman said they were brought back in the Shuttle.
 
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Offline Prober

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #44 on: 08/01/2012 08:32 pm »
Imaging that forthcoming Progress M-15M docking would have success. How do you think if it's teoretically feasibly to make any agreement between Roscosmos and NASA to downmass KURS-NA internal equipment onboard Dragon CRS SpX-1 in case such a need arises to analyse system malfunction?

good idea.  But since the shuttle is now gone, downmass costs are at a premium.   NASA will have to charge 1 million dollars a pound to return the KURS-NA.   These costs can be bartered against the 60 million dollar launch costs Roscosmos charges.

The Shuttle is irrelevant.  His question was about bringing down the KURS-NA internal equipment in the CRS-1 Dragon.

"Downmass costs" aren't "at a premium". That doesn't make gramatical sense.  With Dragon performing CRS there is a much larger dowmass limit, whose price is already negotiated.  edit: It's close to $1K/lb, not $1M.  3000 kg/Dragon

It's more valuable than garbage, and bringing it down clears out the volume on the station.  The issue is one of resource allocation, whether NASA has reason to give some their limited downmass capacity to the Russian partner, and what NASA has already planned to put into the departing CRS-1 Dragon.

Sorry if the truth hurts but we do not have the same Downmass system with the shuttle gone.  Keep in mind the last shuttle visit was a year ago plus so my statement is correct.   As to the costs those are contractor & NASA agreements.

Russian "Downmass" using a NASA contractor service is open to Negotiation.
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Offline Comga

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #45 on: 08/01/2012 11:00 pm »
Sorry if the truth hurts
Dont be patronizing.

Quote
but we do not have the same Downmass system with the shuttle gone.  Keep in mind the last shuttle visit was a year ago plus so my statement is correct.
True but not the issue.  Being "correct is not the issue either.

Quote
As to the costs those are contractor & NASA agreements.
True but so what?  Your numbers are wrong.

Quote
Russian "Downmass" using a NASA contractor service is open to Negotiation.
True, obvious, and not in doubt.  Why say it?

Now you can get the last word in.  I'm done.
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline manboy

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #46 on: 08/07/2012 12:44 pm »
I'm getting concerned on the lack of info on the flight, I wonder if October 5th is still the planned launch date.
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Offline Idiomatic

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #47 on: 08/08/2012 11:49 pm »
Still two months to go, no news might be good news.

Offline Jason1701

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #48 on: 08/09/2012 02:52 am »
Some speculation here. We saw in the HIF construction pictures that the door between the old and new sections of the building is up sometimes for construction purposes. They may be waiting to ship Dragon to Florida until construction has progressed enough to leave that door closed most of the time so they can set up the clean environment to process Dragon. That might be soon, as almost all of the walls are up.

Offline spectre9

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #49 on: 08/09/2012 04:17 am »
Public documents still show F9 launching back to back before the end of the year.

Spx-1 is supposed to be visiting as soon as HTV leaves.

The chart that I'm looking at has this below the title though.

Quote
(Pre-decisional, For Internal Use, For Reference Only)

Offline Space Pete

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #50 on: 08/09/2012 03:17 pm »
Spx-1 is supposed to be visiting as soon as HTV leaves.

Not quite - HTV-3 will leave ISS on September 6, but Dragon CRS-1 won't arrive until a month later on October 7.

Offline Prober

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #51 on: 08/09/2012 06:28 pm »
Spx-1 is supposed to be visiting as soon as HTV leaves.

Not quite - HTV-3 will leave ISS on September 6, but Dragon CRS-1 won't arrive until a month later on October 7.

Ample time to do the mission without any slips.
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Offline corrodedNut

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #52 on: 08/11/2012 12:49 pm »
I'm getting concerned on the lack of info on the flight, I wonder if October 5th is still the planned launch date.
Still two months to go, no news might be good news.

Don't forget about Orbcomm, sounds like their payload is ready now:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/sierra-nevada-corporation-announces-the-completion-of-environmental-testing-for-orbcomms-second-generation-prototype-spacecraft-2012-08-09

http://spacenews.com/satellite_telecom/120810-orbcomm-competition-ais.html

Offline zerm

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #53 on: 08/13/2012 09:38 pm »
Spx-1 is supposed to be visiting as soon as HTV leaves.

Not quite - HTV-3 will leave ISS on September 6, but Dragon CRS-1 won't arrive until a month later on October 7.

Ample time to do the mission without any slips.

This is SpaceX we're talking about here... they have slips, but we're not supposed to notice. (posted while wearing my SpaceX golf shirt)
« Last Edit: 08/13/2012 09:39 pm by zerm »

Offline zt

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #54 on: 08/14/2012 07:04 am »
Realistically, for a launch on the stated date in October, when do we have to see a capsule at the Cape?

Offline oldAtlas_Eguy

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #55 on: 08/14/2012 03:58 pm »
Realistically, for a launch on the stated date in October, when do we have to see a capsule at the Cape?

Probable processing steps: (min days: max days)

1) Dragon checkout. (7 days: 14days)
2) Pack with storable items. (2 days: 5 days)
3) Mate to Trunk. (1 day: 2 days)
4) Checkout mate. (2 days: 5 days)
5) Mate to F9. (1 day: 2 days)
6) Checkout complete stack. (2 days: 5 days)
7) Move to pad for hot-fire test. ( 2 days: 7 days)
7) Complete packing of Dragon with moderately time sensitive items. (1 day: 2 days)
8 ) Fuel Dragon. (1 day: 3 days)
9) Move F9 stack to pad for launch. (1 hour: 3 hours)
10) Late load of final cargo. (2 hours: 5 hours)
11) Erect F9 stack. (1 hour: 2 hours)
12) Launch. (12 hours: 10 days)

Min – 20 days
Max – 46 days + 10 days for launch due to scrubs
Note: times are estimates only to show what needs to be done and approximate durations to accomplish.

On Dragon arrival, I would say no later than the 1st week in Sept but I would expect last week in Aug, and the Trunk not more than a week later.

For schedule padding for processing problems I would expect arrival this week.
« Last Edit: 08/14/2012 03:58 pm by oldAtlas_Eguy »

Offline Prober

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #56 on: 08/14/2012 05:45 pm »
Realistically, for a launch on the stated date in October, when do we have to see a capsule at the Cape?

Probable processing steps: (min days: max days)

1) Dragon checkout. (7 days: 14days)
2) Pack with storable items. (2 days: 5 days)
3) Mate to Trunk. (1 day: 2 days)
4) Checkout mate. (2 days: 5 days)
5) Mate to F9. (1 day: 2 days)
6) Checkout complete stack. (2 days: 5 days)
7) Move to pad for hot-fire test. ( 2 days: 7 days)
7) Complete packing of Dragon with moderately time sensitive items. (1 day: 2 days)
8 ) Fuel Dragon. (1 day: 3 days)
9) Move F9 stack to pad for launch. (1 hour: 3 hours)
10) Late load of final cargo. (2 hours: 5 hours)
11) Erect F9 stack. (1 hour: 2 hours)
12) Launch. (12 hours: 10 days)

Min – 20 days
Max – 46 days + 10 days for launch due to scrubs
Note: times are estimates only to show what needs to be done and approximate durations to accomplish.

On Dragon arrival, I would say no later than the 1st week in Sept but I would expect last week in Aug, and the Trunk not more than a week later.

For schedule padding for processing problems I would expect arrival this week.


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Offline Idiomatic

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #57 on: 08/14/2012 08:26 pm »
4) Checkout mate. (2 days: 5 days)

Really? What do they do for two full days if everything goes smoothly?

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #58 on: 08/14/2012 09:51 pm »
4) Checkout mate. (2 days: 5 days)

Really? What do they do for two full days if everything goes smoothly?

Goes 'Smoothly' - then thank God.

Offline oldAtlas_Eguy

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #59 on: 08/14/2012 09:59 pm »
4) Checkout mate. (2 days: 5 days)

Really? What do they do for two full days if everything goes smoothly?

From personal experience 2 days is a very short time. And for a first test after electrical connectors have been plugged together nothing ever goes without problems which also includes plugging in the test equipment itself. The Trunk has active electronics and checkout also includes letting the Dragon computers run a complete system diagnostics test. This is the first time this has been run because you need the Trunk mated to do a full test. This test is not short. Other tests are performed before even that test can be done. Validating power connectors (the old fashioned way with volt meters to look for continuity and connector resitance and O-scopes to look for connector noise) before any electronics is turned on. Also critical command lines are also checked so that when powered on control is maintained.
« Last Edit: 08/14/2012 10:00 pm by oldAtlas_Eguy »

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