Quote from: JohnFornaro on 03/19/2010 05:17 pmSecond, I almost agree. But speed it up. There should be, according to me, at least four shuttle missions a year, so this existing inventory can be used quickly.If you choose to fly a third flight per year, it will cost somewhere in the region of $400m more. That $400m/year represents around a quarter of the entire annual development budget for Orion and Jupiter-130. That $400m/year thus translates to a 1 year, possibly 18 month delay from IOC September 2013, to an IOC possibly now as late as March 2015.Ross.
Second, I almost agree. But speed it up. There should be, according to me, at least four shuttle missions a year, so this existing inventory can be used quickly.
Robert,(my snip)Remove the existing pillars of political support for the agency at your absolute peril. The entire house will come tumbling down around everyone's ears.Given Obama's early campaign statements, I wonder if this isn't his real plan.Ross.
...i'm almost willing to bet my -2 month old child on that...
(1) The more you choose to spend on Shuttle, the less you will have for developing the replacement capabilities -- and the longer it will then take you to get them online.(2) So instead of just guessing, you should start by defining the requirements....(3) If you choose to fly a third flight per year...
he has RAISED nasa's budget
"I think if Obama wanted to kill human spaceflight he would just go out and do it."No, he wouldn't -- if he did, there would be literally thousands who would make it their live's work to ensure he doesn't get re-elected. He is far more of the mindset that agrees with Lori Garver: take taxpayer money away from manned spaceflight and evolve it into a nearly solely private venture. What he originally said in his campaign is what he's evolving more towards now: delay(end) Constellation and put that money towards education etc. And his rasing of NASA's budget is more a re-alignment or re-allocation of resources than a revolutionary, er, stimulus.That rational enough for you, or would you still contend the likes of me don't get it?!
Quote from: Rabidpanda on 03/20/2010 01:42 amhe has RAISED nasa's budgetNo he hasn't. Taking inflation into account, the 2011 budget is lower than 2010.Subtract the Constellation closeout costs and it looks even worse.The talk of more money in the out years is just talk. NASA never gets the money it's promised in out-year projections.
Let's be careful: the 'Off Topic" button will be pushed by someone shortly, I wager.
In the case of Ares...it didnt matter. That Shuttle derived vehicle has consumed billions more then Atlas/Delta and now both Falcon's. It is proving like all shuttle derived vehicles...far more expensive to develop then everyone thought.
"There are not enough space "pro people" to ensure any President is or is not elected."Thousands of jobs are going already. If (government) manned space is 'eliminated', then thousands more jobs will go. Then, those folk and their many supporters and dependants could forge an alliance that might rival or better the 'tea party' movement. NEVER underestimate the potential power of alliances among angry people. Tens of thousands layed off could leverage hundreds of thousands to their cause. Now, some might argue that many of those folk are in non-Democrat 'Red' states, so it wouldn't matter anyway. And although Space would never be as big an issue as Health Care, Obama's opponents will look for any too or weapon they can to unseat him. This is why Mr Obama is wisely scrambling right now for an alternative to soothe the furrowed brows.Time will tell and we'll see. But enough digression (or is it digression?!)
Quote from: Borderline on 03/20/2010 04:11 amIn the case of Ares...it didnt matter. That Shuttle derived vehicle has consumed billions more then Atlas/Delta and now both Falcon's. It is proving like all shuttle derived vehicles...far more expensive to develop then everyone thought.I'm not arguing for Ares.Two points:1) Ares was not Shuttle-derived. It was what we around here like to call "Shuttle-flavoured". Basically everything was new; it only looked Shuttle-derived.2) Aside from Ares, when has anyone ever tried and failed to develop an efficient, inexpensive Shuttle-derived vehicle?