Author Topic: SpaceX Starship : Superbird 9 : Florida (?) : 2024  (Read 8220 times)

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

https://www.skyperfectjsat.space/en/news/detail/sky_perfect_jsat_signed_launch_service_contract_for_superbird-9_satellite_with_spacex.html

SKY Perfect JSAT signed Launch Service Contract for Superbird-9 satellite with SpaceX

Aug 18, 2022

SKY Perfect JSAT Holdings Inc. (Head Office: Minato-ku, Tokyo; Representative Director, President: Eiichi Yonekura) today announces that SKY Perfect JSAT Corporation (Head Office: Minato-ku, Tokyo; Representative Director, President & Chief Executive Officer; Eiichi Yonekura, hereinafter “SKY Perfect JSAT”) has selected SpaceX’s Starship for launch of its Superbird-9 communications satellite.

Superbird-9 is a fully flexible HTS (High Throughput Satellites) mounted the payload missions to be configured and combined to match end-user needs. It will deliver broadcast and broadband missions in Ku band primarily over Japan and Eastern Asia, in response to mobility and broadband demands. Superbird-9 will be launched by SpaceX’s Starship launch vehicle in 2024 to geosynchronous transfer orbit. SpaceX’s Starship is a fully reusable transportation system that will be the world’s most powerful launch vehicle.

SKY Perfect JSAT and SpaceX will continue to work together ahead of the launch of Superbird-9 Satellite.

(Reference) Superbird-9 Satellite
Satellite Bus
OneSat manufactured by Airbus Defence and Space
Satellite Specification
Frequency bands :       Ku and Ka
Coverage :                   Japan and Eastern Asia
Scheduled start of operation:  FY2025
Service Life:                15 years or more

————————————————————————————

Wow, this is I believe the very 1st firmed Starship GEO communication satellite launch contract!? And from an operator that has flown with SpaceX 3 times already too (JCSAT-14, 16 and 18).
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Re: SpaceX Starship : Superbird 9 : Florida (?) : 2024
« Reply #1 on: 08/18/2022 09:54 am »
Quote
Wow, this is I believe the very 1st firmed Starship GEO communication satellite launch contract!?
I would say that Turksat 6A2 was earlier and firmish (with option on other LV).

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Superbird 9 : Florida (?) : 2024
« Reply #2 on: 08/18/2022 10:18 am »
Quote
Wow, this is I believe the very 1st firmed Starship GEO communication satellite launch contract!?
I would say that Turksat 6A2 was earlier and firmish (with option on other LV).

Someone from SpaceX has been quoted some time ago that SpaceX launch contracts usually include the option to launch on Starship. I think Turksat 6A2 was the same case, so not a real confirmation or announcement.

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Superbird 9 : Florida (?) : 2024
« Reply #3 on: 08/18/2022 10:22 am »
Someone from SpaceX has been quoted some time ago that SpaceX launch contracts usually include the option to launch on Starship. I think Turksat 6A2 was the same case, so not a real confirmation or announcement.

Ok, an option on Starship makes sense for contracts but this press release only mentions Starship:

Quote
Superbird-9 will be launched by SpaceX’s Starship launch vehicle in 2024

Doesn’t sound like an option? Why not mention what the prime contracted vehicle is?

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Superbird 9 : Florida (?) : 2024
« Reply #4 on: 08/18/2022 10:28 am »
Someone from SpaceX has been quoted some time ago that SpaceX launch contracts usually include the option to launch on Starship. I think Turksat 6A2 was the same case, so not a real confirmation or announcement.

Ok, an option on Starship makes sense for contracts but this press release only mentions Starship:

Quote
Superbird-9 will be launched by SpaceX’s Starship launch vehicle in 2024

Doesn’t sound like an option? Why not mention what the prime contracted vehicle is?

I didn't say Starship was just an option in Superbird-9's case.

That's why I think it's the first real commercial contract announced for Starship.

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Re: SpaceX Starship : Superbird 9 : Florida (?) : 2024
« Reply #5 on: 08/18/2022 10:29 am »
Quote
Wow, this is I believe the very 1st firmed Starship GEO communication satellite launch contract!?
I would say that Turksat 6A2 was earlier and firmish (with option on other LV).

I had to check what the “Turksat 6A2” deal was and it turns out that was only mentioned in passing by a Turkish official in 2019 when Shotwell visited Turkey. Given that nothing has been heard of about this satellite since then (unlike Turksat 6A, the 1st Turkish-built GEO comsat), I’m not sure the plans were ever secure - if the project still exists.

This one is something different - even the Japanese version of the press release only mentions Starship.
« Last Edit: 08/18/2022 10:31 am by Galactic Penguin SST »
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Re: SpaceX Starship : Superbird 9 : Florida (?) : 2024
« Reply #6 on: 08/18/2022 10:29 am »
But more interestingly, this is a GTO launch. Wouldn't that require on-orbit refueling?

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Superbird 9 : Florida (?) : 2024
« Reply #7 on: 08/18/2022 10:32 am »
Ok, an option on Starship makes sense for contracts but this press release only mentions Starship:

Quote
Superbird-9 will be launched by SpaceX’s Starship launch vehicle in 2024

Doesn’t sound like an option? Why not mention what the prime contracted vehicle is?

I didn't say Starship was just an option in Superbird-9's case.

That's why I think it's the first real commercial contract announced for Starship.

I’m sorry, I misread your original post.

It’s good to have the first confirmed Starship satellite contract.

Offline Alexphysics

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Superbird 9 : Florida (?) : 2024
« Reply #8 on: 08/18/2022 10:33 am »
But more interestingly, this is a GTO launch. Wouldn't that require on-orbit refueling?

Per the already outdated 2020 Starship's PUG, it should be capable of launching over 20 tonnes to GTO without refueling. It's when you go beyond that when you do need refueling.

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Superbird 9 : Florida (?) : 2024
« Reply #9 on: 08/18/2022 10:44 am »
Why Starship and not FH?

Contract with Airbus to build Superbird-9 was announced in March 2021. Seems unlikely to me that they were planning a satellite beyond FH’s capabilities? Also the FH manifest already goes beyond 2024.

So SpaceX perhaps offered a good deal on Starship to get the ball rolling?

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

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Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Re: SpaceX Starship : Superbird 9 : Florida (?) : 2024
« Reply #11 on: 08/18/2022 11:00 am »
Why Starship and not FH?

Contract with Airbus to build Superbird-9 was announced in March 2021. Seems unlikely to me that they were planning a satellite beyond FH’s capabilities? Also the FH manifest already goes beyond 2024.

So SpaceX perhaps offered a good deal on Starship to get the ball rolling?

It doesn’t look like the satellite even need a Falcon Heavy - Optus 11 using the same platform is only around 3 tonnes, while Inmarsat GX-7 to 9 are under 3 tonnes. They all could be lifted by a Falcon 9 in RTLS mode.
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Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Superbird 9 : Florida (?) : 2024
« Reply #12 on: 08/18/2022 11:08 am »
Presuming that the Superbird 9 will have to be processed and integrated for launch in Florida. As no payload processing facilities exists at South Texas currently, not including the more robust Starlink satcoms that needs less processing.

Do anyone have any idea how the Superbird 9 spacecraft is going to be deploy from a Starship? Also will it be from a Chomper or a Transport Starship?

Offline rpapo

Re: SpaceX Starship : Superbird 9 : Florida (?) : 2024
« Reply #13 on: 08/18/2022 11:12 am »
But more interestingly, this is a GTO launch. Wouldn't that require on-orbit refueling?
Per the already outdated 2020 Starship's PUG, it should be capable of launching over 20 tonnes to GTO without refueling. It's when you go beyond that when you do need refueling.
Yes, but if you do that, will it have enough fuel left to properly return?

Scratch that.  If the Starship was launching to GTO, the end result will be that the Starship itself will be on the same GTO orbit.  In which case, a very small burn at apogee should be enough to ensure reentry at the next perigee.  Or at least a dip into the upper atmosphere for aerobraking with reentry coming on the next orbit.
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Re: SpaceX Starship : Superbird 9 : Florida (?) : 2024
« Reply #14 on: 08/18/2022 11:12 am »
Quote
Wow, this is I believe the very 1st firmed Starship GEO communication satellite launch contract!?
I would say that Turksat 6A2 was earlier and firmish (with option on other LV).

Someone from SpaceX has been quoted some time ago that SpaceX launch contracts usually include the option to launch on Starship. I think Turksat 6A2 was the same case, so not a real confirmation or announcement.
Yes, I heard that from Shotwell. More accurately, she said that they had started contracting for service - payload launches, without a specific LV. The closer the launch date comes, the more accurate the decision will be for both sides - which LV to choose. The essence of such contracts is to ensure that the payload is put into the desired orbit, not much matter what kind of LV. In that case, if Starship will be ready and the customers agree to the terms of the Starship, there will be a launch on Starship.
As for Turksat, it was the first time the Turks had spoken out on the subject of launching on a new rocket.
As for the current launch, Starship might not be able to meet the deadline and the launch will be done on one of the Falcons.

Offline [email protected]

Re: SpaceX Starship : Superbird 9 : Florida (?) : 2024
« Reply #15 on: 08/18/2022 11:17 am »
But more interestingly, this is a GTO launch. Wouldn't that require on-orbit refueling?
Per the already outdated 2020 Starship's PUG, it should be capable of launching over 20 tonnes to GTO without refueling. It's when you go beyond that when you do need refueling.
Yes, but if you do that, will it have enough fuel left to properly return?

Scratch that.  If the Starship was launching to GTO, the end result will be that the Starship itself will be on the same GTO orbit.  In which case, a very small burn at apogee should be enough to ensure reentry at the next perigee.  Or at least a dip into the upper atmosphere for aerobraking with reentry coming on the next orbit.
The user guide explicitly mentioned that it included full recovery of both stages

Why Starship and not FH?

Contract with Airbus to build Superbird-9 was announced in March 2021. Seems unlikely to me that they were planning a satellite beyond FH’s capabilities? Also the FH manifest already goes beyond 2024.

So SpaceX perhaps offered a good deal on Starship to get the ball rolling?

It doesn’t look like the satellite even need a Falcon Heavy - Optus 11 using the same platform is only around 3 tonnes, while Inmarsat GX-7 to 9 are under 3 tonnes. They all could be lifted by a Falcon 9 in RTLS mode.
This further prove over & over how wrong the "Starship is overkill" arguments are
« Last Edit: 08/18/2022 11:18 am by [email protected] »
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Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Superbird 9 : Florida (?) : 2024
« Reply #16 on: 08/18/2022 11:34 am »
Why Starship and not FH?

Contract with Airbus to build Superbird-9 was announced in March 2021. Seems unlikely to me that they were planning a satellite beyond FH’s capabilities? Also the FH manifest already goes beyond 2024.

So SpaceX perhaps offered a good deal on Starship to get the ball rolling?

It doesn’t look like the satellite even need a Falcon Heavy - Optus 11 using the same platform is only around 3 tonnes, while Inmarsat GX-7 to 9 are under 3 tonnes. They all could be lifted by a Falcon 9 in RTLS mode.
IIRC the Starship can carry 20 tonnes of payload to GTO. My guess is that this is a GTO rideshare  mission with several geostationary comsats along with whatever smallsats that SpaceX can sign up for GTO.

Presuming an estimated launch cost of $160M to GTO by the Starship split between 4 or 5 large GEO comsats. That will be a cheap launch opportunity too tempting for a comsat operator to pass up on.

If my guess is correct. It is terrible news for SpaceX's competitors.

Offline gongora

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Superbird 9 : Florida (?) : 2024
« Reply #17 on: 08/18/2022 01:44 pm »
I wouldn't assume a payload has to be large/heavy just because it's going on Starship.

Offline oldAtlas_Eguy

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Superbird 9 : Florida (?) : 2024
« Reply #18 on: 08/18/2022 03:38 pm »
I wouldn't assume a payload has to be large/heavy just because it's going on Starship.
Yes.

All it takes is for Starship launch costs become <$40M for a F9 sized payload to GTO. At that point it becomes cheaper than launching on F9. Add the $8-10M profit margin and SpaceX profit margins per launch would be maintained regardless of what vehicle the payload is launching on. Current basic price (cost +profit) on F9 is ~$50M. Eventual price could get to <$30M before end of decade for Starship launch to GTO.

An active NG as a competitor and GTO payloads could get to truly big sizes since a 10t sat would cost less to launch then than a 3t sat would now.

Offline DanClemmensen

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Superbird 9 : Florida (?) : 2024
« Reply #19 on: 08/18/2022 04:06 pm »
Presuming an estimated launch cost of $160M to GTO by the Starship split between 4 or 5 large GEO comsats. That will be a cheap launch opportunity too tempting for a comsat operator to pass up on.

If my guess is correct. It is terrible news for SpaceX's competitors.
Why would a fully-reusable Starship have a launch cost of $160M? The launch cost should be lower than the cost of an F9 launch. SpaceX has put an enormous amount of money and effort into reducing the cost of a launch. The only reason the cost to the customer would be that high is if SpaceX charges the market price. Once Starship is fully operational, any F9 payload will cost SpaceX less to launch on Starship, except initially Dragon launches. Why go to the administrative, technical, and scheduling trouble of "ridesharing" those comsats? Just launch each one separately.

 

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