Author Topic: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 1  (Read 424563 times)

Offline Lars_J

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site
« Reply #960 on: 04/02/2013 05:02 pm »

I don't like what was in that article.
Shutting down the public beach even on a weekend or holiday if SpaceX needs to launch that day do to possible loss.

They should find a better way to launch from their other two sites if they are only looking at 12 launches a year.

If they did get the bill passed, who is to say they will not push for more launches after that and the beach would be close more often? Just how much notice would the public get on the time and date of such a beach closer. From the web it says that they have weddings there at the beach. If a wedding is scheduled first but SpaceX later has a slip and is found they need to launch on someones wedding day , why should the couple have to forgo the wedding plans? If SpaceX had to reschedule a launch then they should have planned for that better , instead of having to have a launch on a weekend or holiday. Very poor bill in my opinion. All side to this should reconsider and only have launches on weekdays that are not peek usage of the beach.

To me this bill is totally wrong.



I agree. Because there are so MANY launch sites in the world, and so FEW beaches. SpaceX should just go to another launch site a few miles down the road instead of people wanting to use the beach having to drive hundreds or thousands of miles to find another one.

Er wait, did I get that backward?

Indeed. Look at Google maps - So many beaches in the area. Yet RocketmanUS seems to be under the impression that SpaceX wants to shut down every beach in Texas during its launches.

Offline bob the martian

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site
« Reply #961 on: 04/02/2013 05:16 pm »
To quote Spock; "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".

The capability for SpaceX to launch on weekends or holidays (if absolutely necessary) is of interest to all of mankind ("the many"), since the purpose of SpaceX is about furthering the goal of making mankind a multi-planetary species (Elon has said so multiple times). While taking a swim or having a wedding is of interest to those involved in that activity ("the few").


Totally wrong.  Your view is not the consensus of the population.  Both in closing beaches and in making mankind a multi-planetary species

And in the notion that this one launch vendor plays such a crucial role in that endeavor.  I can practically hear Anton Ego in the background ranting about "perspective". 

Offline llanitedave

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site
« Reply #962 on: 04/02/2013 05:20 pm »
To quote Spock; "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".

The capability for SpaceX to launch on weekends or holidays (if absolutely necessary) is of interest to all of mankind ("the many"), since the purpose of SpaceX is about furthering the goal of making mankind a multi-planetary species (Elon has said so multiple times). While taking a swim or having a wedding is of interest to those involved in that activity ("the few").


Totally wrong.  Your view is not the consensus of the population.

Na, he's right. It's just that no one actually sees it that way... (he's right about the IMPORTANCE... you're right about the CONSENSUS)

I rather doubt that keeping the beach open on Memorial Day is going to be to the detriment of mankind.  SpaceX can wait.
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Offline bob the martian

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site
« Reply #963 on: 04/02/2013 06:12 pm »

I don't like what was in that article.
Shutting down the public beach even on a weekend or holiday if SpaceX needs to launch that day do to possible loss.

They should find a better way to launch from their other two sites if they are only looking at 12 launches a year.

If they did get the bill passed, who is to say they will not push for more launches after that and the beach would be close more often? Just how much notice would the public get on the time and date of such a beach closer. From the web it says that they have weddings there at the beach. If a wedding is scheduled first but SpaceX later has a slip and is found they need to launch on someones wedding day , why should the couple have to forgo the wedding plans? If SpaceX had to reschedule a launch then they should have planned for that better , instead of having to have a launch on a weekend or holiday. Very poor bill in my opinion. All side to this should reconsider and only have launches on weekdays that are not peek usage of the beach.

To me this bill is totally wrong.



I agree. Because there are so MANY launch sites in the world, and so FEW beaches. SpaceX should just go to another launch site a few miles down the road instead of people wanting to use the beach having to drive hundreds or thousands of miles to find another one.

Er wait, did I get that backward?

Indeed. Look at Google maps - So many beaches in the area. Yet RocketmanUS seems to be under the impression that SpaceX wants to shut down every beach in Texas during its launches.

South Padre Island isn't just a beach; it's a resort community that could be severely impacted if the beaches get shut down on the wrong day (Memorial Day, July 4, etc.). 

It's also a mistake to assume all beaches in TX are the same; Galveston (part of the Carcinogenic Coast) is a poor substitute for South Padre, for example. 

Offline RocketmanUS

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site
« Reply #964 on: 04/02/2013 06:23 pm »

I don't like what was in that article.
Shutting down the public beach even on a weekend or holiday if SpaceX needs to launch that day do to possible loss.

They should find a better way to launch from their other two sites if they are only looking at 12 launches a year.

If they did get the bill passed, who is to say they will not push for more launches after that and the beach would be close more often? Just how much notice would the public get on the time and date of such a beach closer. From the web it says that they have weddings there at the beach. If a wedding is scheduled first but SpaceX later has a slip and is found they need to launch on someones wedding day , why should the couple have to forgo the wedding plans? If SpaceX had to reschedule a launch then they should have planned for that better , instead of having to have a launch on a weekend or holiday. Very poor bill in my opinion. All side to this should reconsider and only have launches on weekdays that are not peek usage of the beach.

To me this bill is totally wrong.



I agree. Because there are so MANY launch sites in the world, and so FEW beaches. SpaceX should just go to another launch site a few miles down the road instead of people wanting to use the beach having to drive hundreds or thousands of miles to find another one.

Er wait, did I get that backward?
Why should the people have to move to another beach?

How would you like it if you had made plans for a vacation or weekend outing after you already had reservations and at the last minute someone shut down the location or gave it to someone else?
 
What will stop someone else from saying they need the beach more than another?

Who is to determine if SpaceX would have a financial loss if they did not launch on a weekend or holiday?
What about the other businesses that already exist and the losses that they would have do to the beach area being closed?

What launch would be so important that it could not what a few days or should have launched beforehand with better planning from the payload provider and the launch company?

Is SpaceX planning on having sub orbital crew launches? If so what is to say they won't ask for more than 12 per year if they get the launch site?

Was this beach part of the American civil war? If so who would want to go on record of shutting it down on Memorial Day or the Forth of July?

Could they not launch 12 between December to May out of the bad weather period?

All this and weather make a good case for air launches ( for sub orbital and low mass, under 10,000lb to LEO ).

Offline llanitedave

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site
« Reply #965 on: 04/02/2013 06:31 pm »
Just to be contrarian, it's worth noting the Boca Chica beach is not the premium beach that South Padre Island is.  It's less developed and has much less traffic.  Closing Boca Chica would not have nearly the impact that closing South Padre Island would.  The Boca Chica crowd could be absorbed into the South Padre crowd without much noticable difference in the density.

The advantage of Boca Chica is that it's a bit closer to downtown Brownsville, but that difference isn't huge.

Still, all that said, there's no reason to close the beach on weekends and holidays.
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Offline mduncan36

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site
« Reply #966 on: 04/02/2013 06:39 pm »
This isn't Miami Beach and near as I can tell it's only for 15 hours at a time, approximately twelve days a year, and not that wide an area. It's a situation that is not only limited but what would potential beach goers to this sparsely inhabited region do it the weather were bad or the surf were rough? You might not get any notice about those things. I've been dealt more disappointing news in forty years of visiting Disney World. The beach closure thing is going to be a non-issue for 99.999% of Texas and I feel confident the state legislature will see it that way as well. 

Offline Lar

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site
« Reply #967 on: 04/02/2013 06:42 pm »

I agree. Because there are so MANY launch sites in the world, and so FEW beaches. SpaceX should just go to another launch site a few miles down the road instead of people wanting to use the beach having to drive hundreds or thousands of miles to find another one.

Er wait, did I get that backward?

Indeed. Look at Google maps - So many beaches in the area. Yet RocketmanUS seems to be under the impression that SpaceX wants to shut down every beach in Texas during its launches.

Forgot my sarcasm flags, sorry....
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Offline ChileVerde

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site
« Reply #968 on: 04/02/2013 07:10 pm »
South Padre Island isn't just a beach; it's a resort community that could be severely impacted if the beaches get shut down on the wrong day (Memorial Day, July 4, etc.). 

Yes, but what does that have to do with Boca Chica? South Padre is 8 km north of the proposed launch site and I'd be very surprised if the closures extended that far. You might want to fire up Google Earth and get a better idea of what is being discussed.
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Offline RocketmanUS

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site
« Reply #969 on: 04/02/2013 07:12 pm »

I agree. Because there are so MANY launch sites in the world, and so FEW beaches. SpaceX should just go to another launch site a few miles down the road instead of people wanting to use the beach having to drive hundreds or thousands of miles to find another one.

Er wait, did I get that backward?

Indeed. Look at Google maps - So many beaches in the area. Yet RocketmanUS seems to be under the impression that SpaceX wants to shut down every beach in Texas during its launches.

Forgot my sarcasm flags, sorry....
No , not every beach.
Not everyone like another beach or it's type of people on it.
Some people like big crowded beaches and others like only having a few people around. Some like the off season ( less crowd ) and others like the holiday ( large crowd ).
There is also the air and sea traffic to deal with too.

Offline Lars_J

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site
« Reply #970 on: 04/02/2013 07:59 pm »

I agree. Because there are so MANY launch sites in the world, and so FEW beaches. SpaceX should just go to another launch site a few miles down the road instead of people wanting to use the beach having to drive hundreds or thousands of miles to find another one.

Er wait, did I get that backward?

Indeed. Look at Google maps - So many beaches in the area. Yet RocketmanUS seems to be under the impression that SpaceX wants to shut down every beach in Texas during its launches.

Forgot my sarcasm flags, sorry....

Perhaps your reading glasses too.  ;D I saw your sarcasm and agreed with you.

Offline Lar

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site
« Reply #971 on: 04/02/2013 08:16 pm »

I agree. Because there are so MANY launch sites in the world, and so FEW beaches. SpaceX should just go to another launch site a few miles down the road instead of people wanting to use the beach having to drive hundreds or thousands of miles to find another one.

Er wait, did I get that backward?

Indeed. Look at Google maps - So many beaches in the area. Yet RocketmanUS seems to be under the impression that SpaceX wants to shut down every beach in Texas during its launches.

Forgot my sarcasm flags, sorry....

Perhaps your reading glasses too.  ;D I saw your sarcasm and agreed with you.

Quite.

In an ideal world SpaceX would be so rich they could buy up enough land (including beaches) that it would not be an issue, no public land would be close enough that it needed to be closed.

But in an imperfect world, seems to me that reasonable compromises are being offered... some public notice and planning in advance of every date, and except for very extenuating circumstances, enough blackout dates that no holiday weekends are impacted.

If volume gets to the point where it's a problem, renegotiate.

This just doesn't seem like the biggest problem facing this site. And, as anti government as I am in general, the TX government seems to have been pretty reasonable here.
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Offline RocketmanUS

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site
« Reply #972 on: 04/02/2013 08:29 pm »

I agree. Because there are so MANY launch sites in the world, and so FEW beaches. SpaceX should just go to another launch site a few miles down the road instead of people wanting to use the beach having to drive hundreds or thousands of miles to find another one.

Er wait, did I get that backward?

Indeed. Look at Google maps - So many beaches in the area. Yet RocketmanUS seems to be under the impression that SpaceX wants to shut down every beach in Texas during its launches.

Forgot my sarcasm flags, sorry....

Perhaps your reading glasses too.  ;D I saw your sarcasm and agreed with you.

Quite.

In an ideal world SpaceX would be so rich they could buy up enough land (including beaches) that it would not be an issue, no public land would be close enough that it needed to be closed.

But in an imperfect world, seems to me that reasonable compromises are being offered... some public notice and planning in advance of every date, and except for very extenuating circumstances, enough blackout dates that no holiday weekends are impacted.

If volume gets to the point where it's a problem, renegotiate.

This just doesn't seem like the biggest problem facing this site. And, as anti government as I am in general, the TX government seems to have been pretty reasonable here.
Give them an inch and they'll take a mile.

In an area of the U.S. a company used eminent domain to take peoples homes and a business ( land ) for it's own use. It went out of business quickly. There were other better locations available. This is just to show how things have gone wrong in the past.

Tuesday thru Thursday is reasonable ( except when on January 1st, 4th of July, Thanksgiving , and Christmas ).

If their launch were to slip to were it could only happen on a weekend or holiday then they would of had poor planning.

Offline Lar

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site
« Reply #973 on: 04/02/2013 08:40 pm »

In an ideal world SpaceX would be so rich they could buy up enough land (including beaches) that it would not be an issue, no public land would be close enough that it needed to be closed.

It's impossible to buy beachland in Texas, due to the Texas Open Beaches Act.

Which wouldn't exist in this notional "ideal world" I posited :)... but ya.

Is there any more to be said here? Some people see this as reasonable accomodation, some think TX went too far in accomodating SX and some think not far enough...
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Offline GalacticIntruder

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site
« Reply #974 on: 04/02/2013 08:44 pm »
I wonder, since TX auto dealerships are fighting Tesla Motors, if Elon will use SpaceX  as leverage on the legislature to swat the Dealers down? Elon is calling for a rally in Austin, but it seems he could threaten TX spaceport if he does not get his Tesla way.  He will be in town.

Or is that illegal, leaving ethics and cronyism aside.
« Last Edit: 04/02/2013 08:45 pm by GalacticIntruder »
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Offline Lar

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site
« Reply #975 on: 04/02/2013 08:49 pm »
I wonder, since TX auto dealerships are fighting Tesla Motors, if Elon will use SpaceX  as leverage on the legislature to swat the Dealers down? Elon is calling for a rally in Austin, but it seems he could threaten TX spaceport if he does not get his Tesla way.  He will be in town.

Or is that illegal, leaving ethics and cronyism aside.

It's dirty pool.

But perhaps...

Here is part of the press release on Elon's Tesla announcement today. It's at http://www.teslamotors.com/about/press/releases/media-advisory-journalists-analysts-and-investors

PALO ALTO, Calif.-- Tesla Motors, Inc. will hold a conference call on April 2, 2013 at 2:00pm Pacific Standard Time (5:00pm Eastern Standard Time) for media, analysts and investors to make an announcement. Following remarks from Elon Musk, Tesla Motors co-founder and CEO, media and analysts are invited to participate in a question and answer session.

What: Tesla Motors, Inc. Announcement
When: Tuesday, April 2, 2013
Time: 2:00pm Pacific Standard Time / 5:00pm Eastern Standard Time
Press Release Will Be Available At: www.teslamotors.com/press
Webcast: ir.teslamotors.com (live and replay)

the announcement in a few minutes is that an accomodation has been reached?
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"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline Thunderbird5

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site
« Reply #976 on: 04/02/2013 09:22 pm »
I wonder, since TX auto dealerships are fighting Tesla Motors, if Elon will use SpaceX  as leverage on the legislature to swat the Dealers down? Elon is calling for a rally in Austin, but it seems he could threaten TX spaceport if he does not get his Tesla way.  He will be in town.

Or is that illegal, leaving ethics and cronyism aside.

It's dirty pool.

But perhaps...

Here is part of the press release on Elon's Tesla announcement today. It's at http://www.teslamotors.com/about/press/releases/media-advisory-journalists-analysts-and-investors

PALO ALTO, Calif.-- Tesla Motors, Inc. will hold a conference call on April 2, 2013 at 2:00pm Pacific Standard Time (5:00pm Eastern Standard Time) for media, analysts and investors to make an announcement. Following remarks from Elon Musk, Tesla Motors co-founder and CEO, media and analysts are invited to participate in a question and answer session.

What: Tesla Motors, Inc. Announcement
When: Tuesday, April 2, 2013
Time: 2:00pm Pacific Standard Time / 5:00pm Eastern Standard Time
Press Release Will Be Available At: www.teslamotors.com/press
Webcast: ir.teslamotors.com (live and replay)

the announcement in a few minutes is that an accomodation has been reached?

Nope, just an innovative financing scheme for owning a new Tesla.

Offline Chris Bergin

Move to thread 2:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=31544.0

This thread has become too long and is starting to wander.
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