Author Topic: SpaceX's Fairing Catchers (GO Ms Tree, GO Ms Chief)  (Read 251428 times)

Offline wannamoonbase

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Also the east coast is busier and you wouldn’t want anything g to get in the way of that revenue generator. 

Ramping up capacity for fairing recovery won’t be hard. 
Wildly optimistic prediction, Superheavy recovery on IFT-4 or IFT-5

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Quote
Mr Steven lowering a fairing half into and out of the net today! Practice makes perfect.
#spacex #mrsteven

https://twitter.com/w00ki33/status/1029173888859529217

Offline leetdan

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Anybody who still thinks both fairing halves can be caught with the same boat clearly didn't watch the net deployment time-lapse video from this post earlier in the thread.  Rigging just doesn't move that fast.
« Last Edit: 08/14/2018 07:59 am by leetdan »

Offline speedevil

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Anybody who still thinks both fairing halves can be caught with the same boat clearly didn't watch the net deployment time-lapse video from this post earlier in the thread.  Rigging just doesn't move that fast.
That rigging did not move that fast in that instance.
Tree surgeons use quite rapid rigging to secure and rapidly drop branches under control once cut.

Offline nacnud

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Anybody who still thinks both fairing halves can be caught with the same boat clearly didn't watch the net deployment time-lapse video from this post earlier in the thread.  Rigging just doesn't move that fast.

Rigging can move quite fast when needed.


Online Jakusb

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Getting into position and finding a way to have to other half linger longer in the air seems more of a challenge.
The time it takes to reposition seems more then adequate to lower the first half and use some clever way of getting it out of the net.. Maybe some opening in the middle and something on wheels to get it out asap...
Or some mechanism to quickly attach it to other rigging that can lift it out of the way within a minute or 2..

Anyway, this is being invented by.... yes... rocket scientists... I guess they thought of every possible way of doing this and chosen the most likely applicable and workable solution... ;)

Offline leetdan

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A spinnaker and a falling branch are indeed examples of fast rigging, but neither is a good comparison to a large net being deployed from a relatively small surface area.  Whether you have workers or automated machinery, the net has to be moved slowly and deliberately in order to not snag anything.

It's a cool idea, but it isn't happening.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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It certainly appears that Mr Steven's net is capable of receiving a fairing half. Getting closer than ever. 8/13 #spaceX #mrsteven

https://twitter.com/w00ki33/status/1029453716187836416

Quote
It was pointed out that my phrasing in this tweet insinuated I was casting doubt on the viability of the net. Sooo, in an attempt to clarify the obvious, I should have begun the sentence with "To those who doubted..."  #fixed #phew

https://twitter.com/w00ki33/status/1029988863874191363

Edit to add: more pictures and write-up
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-mr-steven-falcon-9-fairing-catch-practice-upgraded-net/
« Last Edit: 08/16/2018 10:32 am by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline Robotbeat

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A spinnaker and a falling branch are indeed examples of fast rigging, but neither is a good comparison to a large net being deployed from a relatively small surface area.  Whether you have workers or automated machinery, the net has to be moved slowly and deliberately in order to not snag anything.

It's a cool idea, but it isn't happening.
If it was rigged differently, there are ways of making it work.
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Offline groknull

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A spinnaker and a falling branch are indeed examples of fast rigging, but neither is a good comparison to a large net being deployed from a relatively small surface area.  Whether you have workers or automated machinery, the net has to be moved slowly and deliberately in order to not snag anything.

It's a cool idea, but it isn't happening.

Fast deployment of net-like structures without snagging is done regularly in aerial banner towing.

The trick is to peel the banner off the ground, not drag it.  The banner is laid out on the ground in a direction opposite to the flight direction of the towing aircraft.  When the tow hook snags the banner loop, the banner bridle, then successive sections of the banner, are lifted into the air.  The process causes the banner to billow like a parachute, peeling it cleanly off the ground.

To use the aerial banner lift technique on Mr. Steven, a flat surface would  be needed behind the rear arms to lay out the net in the reverse direction.  A large inflatable raft tied closely to the stern of Mr. Steven might work...and SpaceX happens to have one.

Offline edzieba

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An alternative would be to roll the net in both directions (i.e. start the roll from the centreline) around a discardable former (think long foam pool noodle) with each wrap secured with tape or breakaway stitching. Tension from unfurling detaches each wrap without the entire net coming loose, and the furled form is a compact (albeit long) cylinder.
The trick is getting the previous rigging out of the way and detached after the first fairing has been caught. Even once the first fairing is lowered to the deck within the net, it would still need to be secured to the deck and the outer portions of the net pulled in (to prevent it from fouling over the sides) and personnel cleared from the deck before the next attempt can start. The fairing is unlikely to land with perfect rotational alignment within the net, and the net has limited ability to 'spin' the fairing using just the lines, so to secure the fairing is going to require personnel on the deck to haul it into any sort of support frame.

Offline aero

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Just a thought. Could the net be designed to operate like a purse seine in reverse? That is,

Hold the net at the top of the masts, with the purse closed,
Catch the first fairing half,
Lower the net, open the purse and let the fairing escape onto the deck,
Raise the net, close the purse and catch the second fairing half.

I see a few problems but the above (if it could work) would be pretty quick and obviate the need for two nets.

But before we go off re-designing the net system, they need to get the boat under the fairing.
« Last Edit: 08/17/2018 11:01 pm by aero »
Retired, working interesting problems

Offline speedevil

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Are folks forgetting the giant inflatable raft from the pictures of a few weeks ago?

To raise a 'out there' option - the inflatable looks not wholly dissimilar to what you might want if you were in the process of designing something you could throw out of a hovering spacecraft, and then land on. (BFS)

To eliminate concerns of cratering by the rocket exhaust and the eroded rocks causing damage to the landing vehicle, or nearby ones.

Primary initial concerns would be if the exhaust could eat through the ablative when not well secured on a flat surface - which water might somewhat mimic a worst case of.

The design might involve partial water ballasting anyway, for weighting reasons, and as water is handy.

It will be nice to find out what it really is.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Quote
SpaceX techs work towards Falcon 9 fairing recovery with wacky series of experiments
By Eric Ralph
Posted on September 25, 2018

Over the course of the past week, Teslarati photographer Pauline Acalin has captured a multitude of unusual occurrences at SpaceX’s Port of Los Angeles dock space, each time involving a Falcon fairing recovery vessel like Mr Steven or NRC Quest, a Falcon fairing half (flight-proven or otherwise), and one of several attenuating circumstances.

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-dockside-falcon-9-recovery-activity-weird-fairing-outings/

Photo caption:

Quote
A mystery Falcon fairing – perhaps new, perhaps flight-proven – appeared at SpaceX’s old Port of San Pedro berth in the last few days. (Pauline Acalin)

Offline Lar

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@Vaporcobra, do you mean attenuating (reducing signal) or EXtenuating (things that make something harder)??
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Offline Inoeth

Is there any word on SpaceX re-attaching the arms/net to Mr Steven for SAOCOM ? I've read (on twitter) that Mr Steven has been making some trial runs around the ocean, but so far as I know it is armless... It seems rather amazing that they'd completely remove themselves from this form of attempt- the inflatable raft at the back of the boat doesn't seem like something that would work - harder to catch and certainly smaller than the expanded arms and net they developed previously...

I will say that it appears that they can re-attach them or take them off very quickly and I won't be all too surprised if they re-appear over the next couple of days prior to the launch...

Given the terrible weather they had last attempt, I can't think that they'd abandon the idea over that previous failure... It would be really awesome if they could a) pull this off and b) livestream it

Offline rsdavis9

It is obviously ideal to capture the fairing before immersion in salt water.

Has there been any evidence that a salty fairing has been refurbished.
I would think they could do something to recover maybe the main honeycomb by waterproofing etc of the fairing. They seem to be doing this with the dragon.

Why not run both programs competing.
Recover by catching.
Waterproof etc to make reuse of salty fairing.
With ELV best efficiency was the paradigm. The new paradigm is reusable, good enough, and commonality of design.
Same engines. Design once. Same vehicle. Design once. Reusable. Build once.

Offline speedevil

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It is obviously ideal to capture the fairing before immersion in salt water.
It is unclear exactly what the goal is - it is possible for example that immersed fairings could be recovered, but it seems likely to them that they can in fact do second stage recovery, and some of this work is 'dual use', which makes it very unclear to outsiders what's going on.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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