Yes we all agree that documenting every detail is always better. But we have to be realistic and not insist with undue requests from the only person conducting this research that is openly discussing it (certainly Shawyer's team and Prof. Yang's team members have never directly disclosed any data or answered any questions whatsoever in this forum).For the EM Drive we have a resonant electromagnetic cavity which according to classical physics (encompassing the theory of General Relativity as well as linear Quantum Mechanics), should not accelerate in outer space (under the action of no external forces or no external fields, assuming that the Quantum Vacuum is indestructible and immutable, involving no CP parity violation) because of the universal law of conservation of momentum. (*)A billion tests that resulted in the EM Drive producing no acceleration will hold no attention from the scientific community, since such results are fully expected.A reproducible, incontrovertible test showing self-acceleration (and certainly one showing levitation of the test article for anybody to see) will hold much more attention from the scientific community than a billion tests showing no acceleration.Once you get that reproducible, consistent, incontrovertible result, one can proceed to discuss the kind of engineering development that Edison engaged in, and where negative results of variations from the reproducible, consistent, incontrovertible result are valuable in optimizing the device.At the moment we are still seeking that reproducible, consistent, incontrovertible result.__________________________(*) we are not dealing here with an inexact science. This is not like Medicine, where a drug can be effective with 70% of the population, ineffective with 29% of the population and produce severe negative effects with 1% of the population. Conservation of momentum applies in physics for 100% of all cases bar none. Ditto for conservation of energy. These are universal laws, just like everybody here is subject to gravitation and we don't have a certain percentage of the population that is unaffected by gravity.
It's possible my eyes glassed over at some point, so I apologize if this has already been answered. I thought the preferred next step for Eagleworks testing was a high power, broad frequency test series, but it sounds like this plan has been shelved. What's changed, and/or has been learned?
inject harmonic signals in a controlled manner into the frustum cavity that will modulate the fundamental resonant frequency established by the VCO. A setup that is able to explore this harmonic content venue with additional on-purpose modulator and monitoring equipment that will of course require more time and money.
Harmonic content will excite higher modes. X's will be (much?) larger ...Picture shows only modulation(No keyboard here)
Maybe stupid question... but why didn't NASA send small scale demonstrator to space? It doesn't have to be heavy (resonance chamber doesn't have to be rated for outside pressure), it doesn't have to have even energy source (it could be plugged into ISS energy grid). Many stupid toys made it to ISS so I think something small, maybe of 1 kg weight could be sent. It would function, or not. But it would be the PROOF of usefulness.
It's about reputation. Even 0.1% risk of becoming an international laughing stock in case of experimental failure of this kind of revolutionary claim is too high. It's a prudent stance. Better crank up the (milli)Newtons beforehand .
Quote from: CW on 04/26/2015 03:28 pmIt's about reputation. Even 0.1% risk of becoming an international laughing stock in case of experimental failure of this kind of revolutionary claim is too high. It's a prudent stance. Better crank up the (milli)Newtons beforehand .They may do it secretly. All they need is to send the experiment aboard launch vehicle of some probe as sub satellite... Alternatively they may use US air force x37 spaceplane. I think it is much better and more decisive to have real space test than anything possible here in gravity well. If it doesn't function even if it functioned in vacuum chamber, then earthside test were improperly set... Or your experiment needs to be adjusted to zero gravity.China could have thought of something similar with their EM Drive experiment. Secrecy is easy If it functions then you tell the tale and take gratulations, if it doesn't then you tell no one. I remember quite imposant tests of mechanic inertial engines ... mounted on boat, on pendulum etc but everything functioned through vibrations... It wouldn't function in zero gravity.
Can't you just test it in 2D by floating an apparatus in a pool of water or something? (suitably protecting it from the water to avoid any electrical hazards, of course)
Okay, points taken on 2,3,4 - but for point 1, why wouldn't the pendulum approach work?Just keep cycling the power on and off until you gradually build up some large oscillation, and the thing is visibly moving from side-to-side in a significant way.
Quote from: Notsosureofit on 04/26/2015 12:19 pmHarmonic content will excite higher modes. X's will be (much?) larger ...Picture shows only modulation(No keyboard here)"X's will be (much?) larger ..."In Dr. White's (edit) mutable Quantum-Vacuum (Q-V) conjecture, since the Q-V compression effects scale with at least the time rate of change of the E&M energy-density phi (dPhi/dt) and dphi^2/dt^2 in the resonant cavity, the input power to thrust generation scaling should be VERY non-linear until the frustum design in question is at least generating a fully collimated Q-V beam, see previous 1kW to 100kW Q-V jet simulation work. However this non-linear thrust scaling with input power may not stop at just the fully collimated Q-V beam stage, provided there are higher than 4D dimensional interactions going on that could be extracting energy from the universe's cosmological gravitational field via several proposed thermodynamic based energy harvesting cycles that this Q-V technology could open up to us."Picture shows only modulation"Good point, but at the moment MHz modulations of the RF carrier is all that we can perform since it would take another set of Phased Locked Loop (PLL) controlled VCOs and 100W microwave RF amplifiers to drive AND phase control the upper harmonics of the 1,937.2 MHz carrier signal with those being 3,874.4 MHz and 5,811.6 MHz at a minimum. And at ~$6,500 each for vacuum compatible RF amps, that's not going to happen until we've already proven this concept to NASA management. Once again the Chicken and egg problem. So at the moment we have to rely on larger amplitude MHz modulations of the 1,937.2 MHz carrier needed to generate reliable ~100uN signals, (the current sideband levels are approx. -50 dB down from the carrier). And/or we fall back on the Eagleworks' in-development 1.2 kW magnetron & waveguide teeter-totter experiment that had better replicate Roger Shawyer's first generation EM-Drive's thrust generation capabilities of at least ~16 milli-Newton. We are still looking for experimental first light date for this magnetron experiment as occurring by the end of June. Hmmm, that should also be about the same time window that we can pull a vacuum in the Warp-field Interferometer test article as well.Best, Paul M.