Author Topic: Inspace laundry wanted  (Read 8922 times)

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Inspace laundry wanted
« on: 05/20/2010 03:39 am »
This is a nice clean thread.  :P  NASA is looking for ideas about inspace laundry for the ISS.

In "Flagship Technology Demonstration Request for Information (RFI)
Solicitation: NNH10ZTT003L" information about a crew laundry in requested in Section 8 Closed Loop Environmental Control System

Spacestations and spaceships are mass restricted so low water use is preferred.

http://nspires.nasaprs.com/external/viewrepositorydocument/cmdocumentid=230953/Section8.pdf

Quote
2.5 Crew Item Laundry

Currently, the ISS has no laundry capability. Laundry refers to washing, with fluid and cleansing agents, to remove soil and odor from clothing, as well as drying to remove any residual fluid from the clothing. On ISS today, all crew clothing, washcloths, and towels, collectively referred to as ‘clothing’, are discarded after they are sufficiently soiled. This requires continual resupply of approximately ~0.5 kg/crew/day to replace disposed items. NASA is considering a simplified approach that provides laundry freshening and some amount of cleaning capability. The simplified system should enable clothing to be reused several times but not indefinitely as with conventional terrestrial laundry systems.


2.5.1 Response Opportunity

Information is requested on laundry system technologies addressing all or some of a range of parameters including:

Requirements: utilize <10 kg water/1 kg clothing. Goal: 3 kg water/1 kg clothing.

Any solvent must either be non-toxic, neutralized, or recovered and reused. Any solvent that remains on the clothing, is vented, or escapes through loading clothing is considered a contaminant and provides an additional burden on the vehicle air recovery system.

No fabric brighteners, fragrances, or binders are allowed. Surfactants must be compatible with biological water processing systems.

It is likely that a laundry system will have three phases: solids (clothing), liquid (water, condensed solvent, or surfactant), and gas (air or solvent). All mechanisms for agitation, rotation, fluid dispersion, and fluid separation must have a clear and scientifically based means of operation.

Venting overboard results in loss of cabin gas and water. Drying thru exposure to vacuum is prohibited because it represents a loss of water that needs to be recovered.

Edit: add link
« Last Edit: 05/20/2010 03:40 am by A_M_Swallow »

Offline neilh

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Re: Inspace laundry wanted
« Reply #1 on: 05/20/2010 07:30 am »
I'd never thought of it before, but that's actually quite an interesting problem. It also makes me wonder how laundry is taken care of on a nuclear submarine.
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Offline Garrett

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Re: Inspace laundry wanted
« Reply #2 on: 05/20/2010 08:00 am »
I'd never thought of it before, but that's actually quite an interesting problem. It also makes me wonder how laundry is taken care of on a nuclear submarine.
I would imagine that nuclear submarines just use filtered sea water, or maybe "fresh" water made from sea water (e.g. using hydrolysis). I also think they replenish their oxygen through hydrolysis of water. This is probably all on Wikipedia somewhere.
Submarines have the advantage of gravity, meaning that standard technology has a good chance of working on a sub.

For the ISS, I'd put my money into inventing some form of drying machine (to remove sweat and water) and couple it with a sterilization technology, probably using UV light. I think washing using a liquid may be a waste of time. To me it seems just a bit old-fashioned for a space station.
« Last Edit: 05/20/2010 08:01 am by Garrett »
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Offline neilh

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Re: Inspace laundry wanted
« Reply #3 on: 05/20/2010 08:09 am »
For the ISS, I'd put my money into inventing some form of drying machine (to remove sweat and water) and couple it with a sterilization technology, probably using UV light. I think washing using a liquid may be a waste of time. To me it seems just a bit old-fashioned for a space station.

I use these (really awesome) things called "Dry Cleaner's Secret," which are lightweight sheets I toss into the dryer with dryclean-only items for ~15 minutes to clean them. I wonder if a similar approach might work in space. A tumble dryer probably wouldn't work too well, but perhaps some kind of shaking/agitating dryer would work?

http://www.drycleanerssecret.com/index.html

Of course, you probably wouldn't want to inhale too much of this stuff, so keeping it from contaminating the air supply could be interesting.
« Last Edit: 05/20/2010 08:14 am by neilh »
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Offline mrhuggy

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Re: Inspace laundry wanted
« Reply #4 on: 05/20/2010 10:15 am »
I was thinking about this a few days ago. I think it would make a great Centennial Challenge. The winner would actually get installed on the space station.

Offline bpb3

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Re: Inspace laundry wanted
« Reply #5 on: 05/20/2010 08:23 pm »
This problem has already been solved by the best - Robert A. Heinlein himself.  I refer you to 'Misfit'.  After a spaceship cabin full of men barf all over themselves the local expert (sarge)  has them put their soiled clothes in the airlock which is then evacuated (air gone - now a vacuum).   A unspecified amount of time later (more than a minute, less than a day) the clothes are removed from the airlock and the residue of barf is brushed off into the ventilation system's intake to be filtered out.   Seems like this would work for garden variety armpit-stink as well. 
 

 

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Inspace laundry wanted
« Reply #6 on: 05/20/2010 08:24 pm »
This problem has already been solved by the best - Robert A. Heinlein himself.  I refer you to 'Misfit'.  After a spaceship cabin full of men barf all over themselves the local expert (sarge)  has them put their soiled clothes in the airlock which is then evacuated (air gone - now a vacuum).   A unspecified amount of time later (more than a minute, less than a day) the clothes are removed from the airlock and the residue of barf is brushed off into the ventilation system's intake to be filtered out.   Seems like this would work for garden variety armpit-stink as well. 
Vacuum drying isn't allowed ;). NASA wants to be able to recycle as much water as possible.
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Offline bpb3

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Re: Inspace laundry wanted
« Reply #7 on: 05/21/2010 06:08 pm »
I believe you missed my point.  Given sufficient vacuum drying - washing clothes with water is not required.   Smelly clothes get that way due to accumulated sweat and other fluids.  Vacuum drying rids the clothes of the volatile part of the stink sans water.  A little elbow grease with a brush gets rid of the solids - do this in front of the air intake to collect and filter the debris, you don't want to be breathing it!     Question is - will this trick work with 'skid marks'?   

Offline RanulfC

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Re: Inspace laundry wanted
« Reply #8 on: 05/21/2010 06:29 pm »
The problem is that the OP states NASA assumes 'water-and-soap' washing, so vacuum "cleaning" is out simply because the original RFI doesn't allow for it. :(

Which is as usual "ass-backwards" since NASA should be setting out an RFI WITHOUT micromanaging the details...

Randy
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Offline neilh

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Re: Inspace laundry wanted
« Reply #9 on: 05/21/2010 06:34 pm »
I believe you missed my point.  Given sufficient vacuum drying - washing clothes with water is not required.   Smelly clothes get that way due to accumulated sweat and other fluids.  Vacuum drying rids the clothes of the volatile part of the stink sans water.  A little elbow grease with a brush gets rid of the solids - do this in front of the air intake to collect and filter the debris, you don't want to be breathing it!     Question is - will this trick work with 'skid marks'?   

I think the issue is if the clothing has sweat embedded in it; a long-duration closed-loop life support system would ideally reclaim that sweat and recycle it.
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Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: Inspace laundry wanted
« Reply #10 on: 05/21/2010 06:36 pm »
The rules do appear to rule out dry cleaning.

There are new low water use washing technologies being developed.  Here is a link to one.
http://www.gizmag.com/go/4516

Offline Jim

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Re: Inspace laundry wanted
« Reply #11 on: 05/21/2010 06:54 pm »
The problem is that the OP states NASA assumes 'water-and-soap' washing, so vacuum "cleaning" is out simply because the original RFI doesn't allow for it. :(

Which is as usual "ass-backwards" since NASA should be setting out an RFI WITHOUT micromanaging the details...

Randy

No.  It isn't micromanaging, it is bounding requirements.  The requirement isn't just to clean the laundry, it is to do it within these bounds.   Vacuum "cleaning" means losing both water and air.

Laundering requires some kind of fluid to dissolve or wet the "dirt' in the garments.
« Last Edit: 05/21/2010 06:57 pm by Jim »

Offline Bill White

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Re: Inspace laundry wanted
« Reply #12 on: 05/21/2010 06:56 pm »
Use supercritical (or liquid) carbon dioxide . . .

Quote
Dry-cleaning

Supercritical carbon dioxide (SCD) can be used instead of PERC (perchloroethylene) or other undesirable solvents for dry-cleaning. Supercritical carbon dioxide sometimes intercalates into buttons, and, when the SCD is depressurized, the buttons pop, or break apart. Detergents that are soluble in carbon dioxide improve the solvating power of the solvent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercritical_fluid#Dry-cleaning

= = =

No water or air is lost. Water is not used and the CO2 can be recycled.
« Last Edit: 05/21/2010 07:01 pm by Bill White »
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Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Inspace laundry wanted
« Reply #13 on: 05/21/2010 07:02 pm »
Nothing says you can't use a vacuum pump inside of the ISS for the same effect. A vacuum in a vacuum ;)

Though, you really don't want to be breathing the vacuum pump exhaust products. They are not healthy... Does anyone know if the "newer" oil free dry scroll pump exhaust products fall under the nasty category? My past experience has always been you exhaust roughing pumps to the outside.
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Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Inspace laundry wanted
« Reply #14 on: 05/21/2010 07:10 pm »
Nothing says you can't use a vacuum pump inside of the ISS for the same effect. A vacuum in a vacuum ;)

Though, you really don't want to be breathing the vacuum pump exhaust products. They are not healthy... Does anyone know if the "newer" oil free dry scroll pump exhaust products fall under the nasty category? My past experience has always been you exhaust roughing pumps to the outside.
This is a good question, especially if you eventually want a giant airlock for some reason. I've often thought about this.
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Offline RanulfC

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Re: Inspace laundry wanted
« Reply #15 on: 05/24/2010 05:53 pm »
The problem is that the OP states NASA assumes 'water-and-soap' washing, so vacuum "cleaning" is out simply because the original RFI doesn't allow for it. :(

Which is as usual "ass-backwards" since NASA should be setting out an RFI WITHOUT micromanaging the details...

Randy

No.  It isn't micromanaging, it is bounding requirements.  The requirement isn't just to clean the laundry, it is to do it within these bounds.   Vacuum "cleaning" means losing both water and air.

Laundering requires some kind of fluid to dissolve or wet the "dirt' in the garments.
No Jim is IS micromanaging and the proof is in the "bounding requirements" which ASSUMES (as you do) that "cleaning" requires water and air and no other methods need be examined.
Any 'vacuum' system can be made to store, scrub, and recycle the air and water as it's drawn out so you lose nothing that's not a technical challenge. Nor for that matter is the NASA RFI since you can BUY "no-output" combined washer/dryer units commecially! What the RFI is basically asking for is ideas for adapting these exisiting machines to microgravity more than anything else.

And it's STILL micromanaging because the RFI specifies HOW to do the job rather than asking for ideas on how to do the job! What is needed is an RFI that asks IF "washing" with soap and water is really the most efficent way to clean clothes in space or is there a better method, and if so what would it be?

Randy
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Offline Jim

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Re: Inspace laundry wanted
« Reply #16 on: 05/24/2010 06:37 pm »

No Jim is IS micromanaging and the proof is in the "bounding requirements" which ASSUMES (as you do) that "cleaning" requires water and air and no other methods need be examined.
Any 'vacuum' system can be made to store, scrub, and recycle the air and water as it's drawn out so you lose nothing that's not a technical challenge. Nor for that matter is the NASA RFI since you can BUY "no-output" combined washer/dryer units commecially! What the RFI is basically asking for is ideas for adapting these exisiting machines to microgravity more than anything else.

And it's STILL micromanaging because the RFI specifies HOW to do the job rather than asking for ideas on how to do the job! What is needed is an RFI that asks IF "washing" with soap and water is really the most efficent way to clean clothes in space or is there a better method, and if so what would it be?

Randy
  It just says that vacuum is not allowed because that would mean venting valuable air.  It doesn't say you must use water, but if you do then the amount should be less than this. 

No use of vacuum means no venting and also no power hungry vacuum pumps with dirty exhaust.

Those are bounding conditions and not
« Last Edit: 05/24/2010 06:46 pm by Jim »

Offline spacenut

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Re: Inspace laundry wanted
« Reply #17 on: 05/24/2010 07:58 pm »
http://www.jemai.or.jp/english/dfe/pdf/19_8.pdf

Use an ultrasonic machine to clean the clothes, then filter the water, then recirculate air across the clothes and condense the water out of them to be reused. 

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Inspace laundry wanted
« Reply #18 on: 05/24/2010 08:23 pm »
It is a shame they can't use a clothesline for drying!

Clothes dryers are substantial energy hogs, not to mention that gas dryers exhale carbon monoxide that must be vented (along with irreplaceable air).  Clothes dryers also present a well-known fire hazard (CPSC says that there are more than 40 dryer fires every day in the U.S.). 

A clothesline, on the other hand, uses the sun's free energy.  On a sunny day, clothes actually dry faster on a clothesline than in a dryer because sunlight can provide more energy per unit surface area than a typical clothes dryer. 

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Offline scienceguy

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Re: Inspace laundry wanted
« Reply #19 on: 05/24/2010 09:09 pm »
Why can't you just dry clean the clothes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_cleaning

You could recycle the tetrachloroethylene by heating it to 121 C, boiling it out of the waste from the clothes.
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Offline Patchouli

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Re: Inspace laundry wanted
« Reply #20 on: 05/24/2010 09:20 pm »
Another solution for some items may be steam cleaning them.

It's non toxic and any water that escapes the system would simply be recaptured by the ECLSS.

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: Inspace laundry wanted
« Reply #21 on: 05/24/2010 10:49 pm »
It is a shame they can't use a clothesline for drying!

Clothes dryers are substantial energy hogs, not to mention that gas dryers exhale carbon monoxide that must be vented (along with irreplaceable air).  Clothes dryers also present a well-known fire hazard (CPSC says that there are more than 40 dryer fires every day in the U.S.). 

A clothesline, on the other hand, uses the sun's free energy.  On a sunny day, clothes actually dry faster on a clothesline than in a dryer because sunlight can provide more energy per unit surface area than a typical clothes dryer. 

 - Ed Kyle

My flat came with a washing line over the bath so indoors drying of clothes is definitely possible.  However humidity controls would be needed in spacecraft.

Sun light can be harvested by using the equivalent of a green house.  Give a sun facing room a glass wall.  Peg the clothes at the top and bottom to a double washing (or net) would allow slow rotation, both throwing off water drops and drying the back.

Offline mlorrey

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Re: Inspace laundry wanted
« Reply #22 on: 05/25/2010 06:02 pm »
I believe you missed my point.  Given sufficient vacuum drying - washing clothes with water is not required.   Smelly clothes get that way due to accumulated sweat and other fluids.  Vacuum drying rids the clothes of the volatile part of the stink sans water.  A little elbow grease with a brush gets rid of the solids - do this in front of the air intake to collect and filter the debris, you don't want to be breathing it!     Question is - will this trick work with 'skid marks'?   

I think the issue is if the clothing has sweat embedded in it; a long-duration closed-loop life support system would ideally reclaim that sweat and recycle it.

So they want to recycle the elbow grease?
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Offline pathfinder_01

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Re: Inspace laundry wanted
« Reply #23 on: 05/26/2010 02:09 am »
Why can't you just dry clean the clothes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_cleaning

You could recycle the tetrachloroethylene by heating it to 121 C, boiling it out of the waste from the clothes.

I suspect that compound is toxic. You probably want to limit the number of toxic items on board a station. A leak could be a big problem in place where you can't open the windows.


Actually I find this request funny.  In the early 90ies I remember watching a TV program featuring a washing machine for the space station. NASA choose not to pursue it for some reason. If I remember correctly it used ultra sound, water and a non toxic cleaner for the wash, but I suspect it used a vacuum for the dry(ugh....) to save power.



Offline mlorrey

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Re: Inspace laundry wanted
« Reply #24 on: 05/26/2010 10:49 am »
http://www.jemai.or.jp/english/dfe/pdf/19_8.pdf

Use an ultrasonic machine to clean the clothes, then filter the water, then recirculate air across the clothes and condense the water out of them to be reused. 

What about electrostatic cleaning?
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Offline JasonAW3

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Re: Inspace laundry wanted
« Reply #25 on: 05/29/2010 10:08 am »
Ok, let's try this.

    A small volume cylindrical container about 2 to 5 liters in size for the inner housing with slight humps pointing into the cylinder, using about 1 to 2 liters of water with a mild organic soap.
     The cylinder sprayes the water and soap mix onto the clothes, amd the capillary action of the cloth itself soaks up the water and soap mixture.
     The cylinder oscillates clockwise and counterclockwise along its axis about 1/4 turn every 1/2 second for about 10 minutes while the cloth is bombarded with ultrasonics to loosen the dirt in the cloth.  The 1/4 rotation of the cylinder causes the humps to impact the clothing, agitating them and exposing them to the ultrasonics thouroughly.
     After about 10 minutes, the cylinder begins to spin, pressing the cloth against the sides of the cylinder.  Small holes in the cylinder allows the soap and water combination to be flung through into a filtration cylinder, gathering most of the dirt and debris from the cloth, while the water and soap mix is sent to the recycler system for reprocessing. heat would be applied via a warm air blower to evaporate the water in the cloth and allow it to be gathered for recycling as well.
     After about 5 minutes of this, more water is injected into the cylinder, agitation and ultrasonics are again applied for about 10 more minutes, (but no soap) and again the water is spun out, while heat is applied via warm air blower.
     One more cycle of water, agitation, ultrasonics, spinning and heat, and the clothes come out clean and dry.

     In theory, the system could be made almost as a closed system recycling the water internally, and the soap could possibly be eliminated via the use of a small bean bag full of 1/4 inch polyester beads and the injection of ozone into the wash and rinse cycles.  The beads would help to knock loose the dirt and debris during agitation and ultrasonics while the ozone would help to eliminate biological contaminants. (Bacteria, etc.)

     All in all, stuff the clothes in the unit, turn it on for about 1 hour, and you've got cleaned and dried clothes in microgravity.  (And yes, the filter would have to be changed every so often, but could be cleaned via a vacume cleaner from time to time to extend the filter's life before replacement).
     How's that work for you?

Jason
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Offline Apollo-phill

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Re: Inspace laundry wanted
« Reply #26 on: 05/29/2010 12:05 pm »
Not an expert on this but would ultrasonic cleaning of items work ?

Phill
UK

Offline JasonAW3

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Re: Inspace laundry wanted
« Reply #27 on: 05/29/2010 07:54 pm »
Not an expert on this but would ultrasonic cleaning of items work ?

Phill
UK

Yes, but you still need a wetting media to remove the dirt and debris from the fibe of the cloth.  Ultrasonics loosen the dirt and debris, agitators knock it loose further, and spining it removes it further.

Jason
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