probably a system sound that was covered up when there was radio traffic with Earth.
Mike Collins said many years ago in "Caryying the Fire" that NASA engineers told him the sound was due to interference between the LM and CSM VHF radios. It only occurred when they were in close proximity.
What is interesting to me is that it was classified until 2008--nearly 40 years. This tells me that they weren't 100% sure it was not aliens.
Quote from: Danderman on 02/22/2016 01:13 amprobably a system sound that was covered up when there was radio traffic with Earth.I believe a more likely explanation is that aliens were performing Dark Side of the Moon, on the Dark Side of the Moon.
Probably it was the result of a couple of factors IMO: the gain on the radio receivers would have automatically cranked up, and thus picked up electronic interference from the other equipment in the spacecraft. Computers in those days were known to project radio emissions that could be picked up by radios. Here is a video of an old DEC computer generating interference that is picked up by a transistor AM radio:
PDP8/e - That takes me back to when I was doing my CSE Computer Studies (UK school exam for 15/16 year olds) back in '75. we had use of a PDP8/e with all of 4K of core store
Quote from: Warren Platts on 02/22/2016 03:56 amWhat is interesting to me is that it was classified until 2008--nearly 40 years. This tells me that they weren't 100% sure it was not aliens.Maybe it's just that NASA was 100% sure that releasing the tapes would generate a lot of nonsense about aliens that it did not want to deal with.
which would explain its prolonged period of classification.
Quote from: whitelancer64 on 02/22/2016 02:56 pm which would explain its prolonged period of classification. How about apathy as a reason for the long period. Static condition for most classified information in the past is to remain classified. Declassification is a proactive task. Somebody has to actively find the record and then work the declassification review, which take resources (time, money, personnel, etc). Keeping something in a safe, once it is in a safe, doesn't take much resources.
[snip]As to whitelancer's contention that the tapes were classified because possible military applications to jamming of radio signals, that is hard to believe IMO. The radios were more or less ordinary VHF radios, albeit they were space-rated: certainly attempts by the Soviets to jam Apollo radio signals could be ruled out since the Apollo spacecraft was on the Far Side of the Moon. They were not encrypted AFAIK. And anyways, the radios were working perfectly; contact with Earth was reestablished the second they were within line-of-sight with the Earth. Therefore, it appears IMHO that the initial decision to classify the tapes is because they weren't sure that the origin of the "outer spacey music" was NOT of alien origin. The lore that has been handed down is that even as early the as Apollo 11, the "music" was explained away as an onboard electronic noise; and thus, as Jim suggests, the classification would have continued through mere bureaucratic inertia. The interesting point remains: that the emergence of these "outer spacey" tapes is evidence that NASA attempted to coverup evidence of intelligent ETs visiting our Solar System. The latter evidence was totally spurious of course, and hence it was declassified once someone took the proactive steps to get it declassified. But the fact that the "music" proved to be spurious is beside the point: the point being that evidently NASA took the recommendations of the old Brookings Institute's report to heart: namely that it might be better to withhold such information from the public, given the hysterical reaction demonstrated during Orson Welles radio broadcast of H.G. Wells' War of the Worlds.Which entails that if NASA ever did have non-spurious evidence of aliens--THEY WOULDN'T TELL US!So when NASA assures us there is no evidence for aliens in this solar system, that is most likely very well to be the case, but we cannot believe it to be true on the basis of NASA's moral authority, as they have now proven that they would keep secret any such evidence. It makes one wonder. We've got a 91-one year old ex-president and former head of the CIA saying "Americans can't handle the truth". Either the guy's still sharp as a tack, retaining a sly, sarcastic sense of humor, or else he's completely senile, or ____________. Then there's the current President. Maybe he knows something we don't when cancelled the Constellation program, in favor of a goal that's perpetually 30 years in the future. Perfectly good Saturn V's mothballed... Trust me, I don't want to believe....
... NASA to investigate alien archeology sites on the moon ...
Somebody has to actively find the record and then work the declassification review, which take resources
Quote from: Proponent on 02/22/2016 08:57 amQuote from: Warren Platts on 02/22/2016 03:56 amWhat is interesting to me is that it was classified until 2008--nearly 40 years. This tells me that they weren't 100% sure it was not aliens.Maybe it's just that NASA was 100% sure that releasing the tapes would generate a lot of nonsense about aliens that it did not want to deal with.Respectfully disagree. Avoidance of nonsense is not a justification for classification. You call it nonsense now--but that is with the benefit of 50 years of hindsight. E.g., after the first few missions to the Moon, the astronauts were kept in quarantine in modified airstream trailers for like three weeks--much longer than the actual mission. We look back on that now and think about how paranoidally crazy that was, but at the time it was considered a legitimate safety precaution. <SNIP>But the question remains: If they were not sure that the "music" was not of alien origin, then why classify it? 40 years of classification goes beyond ordinary data embargoes that last until the scientists get their story straight. The only answer is that there must be a US government policy that extended to NASA, that in the words of the immortal George H. W. Bush, that "Americans can't handle truth" when it comes to the possible existence of intelligent extraterrestrial aliens...
Quote... NASA to investigate alien archeology sites on the moon ...Are you serious? No one can investigate something that doesn't exist.
Quote from: A8-3 on 02/22/2016 07:17 pmQuote... NASA to investigate alien archeology sites on the moon ...Are you serious? No one can investigate something that doesn't exist.Serious. The moon exists. The only way to get the public interested in space exploration again is to look at interesting features near the Earth. The presence of microbes on Mars has never been proven, but there are are many instruments being sent to Mars to look for microbes. So why not look for alien archeology on the moon? The public would eat it up. Most of the materials that comprise our solar system are strongly believed to be 4.6+ billion years old. What if one finds something on the moon that was much much older? If the theory goes that life on Earth started from comets or asteroids impacting Earth, there ought to be some clues on the moon to differentiate that theory as fact or myth. But I'm with you... I say life generating asteroids it's a fraudulent myth.
The moon exists.
Archaeology, or archeology, is the study of human activity through the recovery and analysis of material culture. The archaeological record consists of artifacts, architecture, biofacts or ecofacts, and cultural landscapes.
If the theory goes that life on Earth started from comets or asteroids impacting Earth, there ought to be some clues on the moon to differentiate that theory as fact or myth.
Quote from: A8-3 on 02/22/2016 07:17 pmQuote... NASA to investigate alien archeology sites on the moon ...Are you serious? No one can investigate something that doesn't exist.Actually, I don't think that there's enough evidence one way or another yet.
believing whatever you want
Now, can we move on to more useful baseless speculation such as why this interference was more prominent on the other side of the moon?
If they were 100.000% sure it was just onboard radio interference, it wouldn't have been classified.
There is a lot of discussion on here about why these tapes were classified. The problem is I haven't seen any good sources that they were classified to begin with.
Quote from: meberbs on 02/23/2016 02:15 pmThere is a lot of discussion on here about why these tapes were classified. The problem is I haven't seen any good sources that they were classified to begin with. See the front page of NASA's Apollo 10 Lunar Module (LM) Onboard Voice Transcription:Group 4, Downgraded at 3 Year Intervals, Declassified After 12 YearsThis material contains information affecting the national defense of the United States within the meaning of the espionage laws, Title 18, U.S.C. section 793 and 794. The transmission or revelation of which in any manner to an unauthorized person is prohibited by law.(Of course that applies to the entire transcript, not just certain portions, so the current references to the audio being classified are to the whole recording, not just the radio interference section specifically.)
-SNIP-Still, I remain curious: we know that NASA had a policy in place to deal with extraterrestrial life--albeit at the microbial level. Thus, the question remains: Was there (and is there) a NASA policy for dealing with close encounters with actual space-faring intelligent aliens? NASA would seem almost remiss in their duties if there was not such a policy in place, given the relative state of ignorance regarding the rest of the Solar System at the time; after all, the US Air Force was still running Project Blue Book!
NASA does not and never has had a policy for dealing with aliens. Nor does any other spacefaring nation.
No branch of the United States Government is currently involved with or responsible for investigations into the possibility of alien life on other planets or for investigating Unidentified Flying Objects (UFO's). The U.S. Air Force (USAF) and NASA have had intermittent, independent investigations of the possibility of alien life on other planets; however, none of these has produced factual evidence that life exists on other planets, nor that UFO's are related to aliens. Under Project Blue Book (1947 to 1969), the Air Force investigated UFO's; then in 1977, NASA was asked to examine the possibility of resuming UFO investigations. After studying all of the facts available, it was determined that nothing would be gained by further investigation ...
A quick gander at nasa.gov could only recover one page on UFOs: QuoteNo branch of the United States Government is currently involved with or responsible for investigations into the possibility of alien life on other planets or for investigating Unidentified Flying Objects (UFO's). The U.S. Air Force (USAF) and NASA have had intermittent, independent investigations of the possibility of alien life on other planets; however, none of these has produced factual evidence that life exists on other planets, nor that UFO's are related to aliens. Under Project Blue Book (1947 to 1969), the Air Force investigated UFO's; then in 1977, NASA was asked to examine the possibility of resuming UFO investigations. After studying all of the facts available, it was determined that nothing would be gained by further investigation ...The last part is kind of interesting. Does anybody know anything about the 1977 study? Guess that would have been under President Carter. Strange...
Another indication that the "mystery sound" was an interference problem in the hardware, from the Apollo Flight Journal:103:47:58 Stafford (in Snoopy): That weird noise is on VHF B.103:48:01 Cernan (in Snoopy): It's a what?103:48:02 Stafford (in Snoopy): It's on VHF B.103:48:03 Cernan (in Snoopy): Is that right?103:48:04 Stafford (in Snoopy): Yes.So, the noise was only coming through on one of the VHF circuits. The other circuit wasn't getting it. That pretty clearly makes it an interference issue with the circuit itself, not a real signal being picked up and transformed into sound.
As for why the signal only apparently happened on the Dark Side, isn't it the case that the radios were programmed to automatically seek out signals from Earth? In which case, once behind the Moon, the reception gain would have maxed out, making them hypersensitive to receiving any sort of electronic noise generated by the old fashioned electronics onboard.
Quote from: Warren Platts on 02/23/2016 06:09 pmAs for why the signal only apparently happened on the Dark Side, isn't it the case that the radios were programmed to automatically seek out signals from Earth? In which case, once behind the Moon, the reception gain would have maxed out, making them hypersensitive to receiving any sort of electronic noise generated by the old fashioned electronics onboard.So in that case it was just a matter of them not bothering to turn off the earth communication antennas when not in use. If they were the same antennas used to communicate between the modules, then this shouldn't have been an issue. since they were still in communication.
Can I just point something out, please? This thread and many of the links use the term "dark side of the moon". There is no "dark side of the moon" other than the name of a famous musical album. The "far side of the moon" from Earth's perspective is illuminated as often as the side that faces us is illuminated. Now, the moon's material is a bit dark so the whole thing is a bit dark, especially compared with how it appears in the night sky (as bright white) but it's still illuminated.I think nothing could make these points clearer than this video.http://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/from-a-million-miles-away-nasa-camera-shows-moon-crossing-face-of-earthWhile it's certainly not as bright as the white clouds on Earth, it's not too dissimilar in brightness to the land masses visible on our planet in the background of that video.
I have just found this story, and I am a bit confused. I remember reading something about radio noise on Apollo flights behind the moon when I was about 12 or 13. That would have been the mid 70s. My memory is rather fuzzy on it, was a long time ago. Why is this suddenly being claimed to have been classified before now? I suppose I could be remembering something else......
Quote from: whitelancer64 on 02/23/2016 06:04 pmNASA does not and never has had a policy for dealing with aliens. Nor does any other spacefaring nation.So it's the Air Force's or USSTRATCOM's job?
Quote from: Warren Platts on 02/23/2016 06:13 pmQuote from: whitelancer64 on 02/23/2016 06:04 pmNASA does not and never has had a policy for dealing with aliens. Nor does any other spacefaring nation.So it's the Air Force's or USSTRATCOM's job?No, no US government agency has a set policy regarding the discovery of aliens or alien contact. Nor, so far as I'm aware, does any other nation or any other nation's agencies, nor nearly all other international agencies. The only (so far as I'm aware) international agency on Earth with a set policy of what to do if they discover evidence of or make contact with aliens is SETI. Basically their plan is to call in experts to triple-check to see if what they have is real and then they call up the UN to set up an international press conference. That's probably also along the lines of what would happen if NASA or any other government agency (or any other nation or their agencies) discovered evidence for aliens.
Quote from: Ronpur50 on 02/24/2016 10:10 pmI have just found this story, and I am a bit confused. I remember reading something about radio noise on Apollo flights behind the moon when I was about 12 or 13. That would have been the mid 70s. My memory is rather fuzzy on it, was a long time ago. Why is this suddenly being claimed to have been classified before now? I suppose I could be remembering something else......The noises heard on the VHF radio sets behind the Moon on the Apollo missions have been known -- not classified -- since at least 1973, when Mike Collins' book Carrying the Fire came out which described what he heard on Apollo 11.The transcripts of the on-board recordings were classified for several years, and were then declassified, something like 12 years after the flights. The recordings themselves weren't classified all this time, they just weren't archived in a publicly accessible format until relatively recently.The recording in question, from Apollo 10, has been linked to at the Apollo Flight Journal website for some time. So, it hasn't even been recently released.The furor is media-generated and exacerbated by poor reporting.
How do they have recordings from the dark side of the moon? I didn't know they carried tapes and recording equipment on the space craft. Seems like a lot of unnecessary weight if so.
The on-board recordings were transcribed and those transcriptions have been available online for literally decades. They make for some entertaining reading at times -- especially from more of the colorful crews, like Conrad's Apollo 12 crew...
Quote from: Warren Platts on 02/23/2016 06:41 pm Does anybody know anything about the 1977 study? Guess that would have been under President Carter. Strange...A report summarizing the events of 1977 can be found here: henry.pha.jhu.edu/aaaLibrary/ufosNASA.pdfCopies of the original letter from the White House and the subsequent correspondence from NASA start on page 17Basically, the White House wanted to shift the burden of dealing with UFO reports and inquiries from itself to NASA. NASA looked into the previous ten years of UFO reports, decided that there wasn't anything worth investigating, and declined, with the caveat that if there were any hard evidence of UFOs available in the future, then NASA would be only too glad to investigate it.
Does anybody know anything about the 1977 study? Guess that would have been under President Carter. Strange...
if a new element of hard evidence that UFOs exist is broughtto NASA's attention from a credible source, NASA will analyze theunexplained organic or inorganic sample and report its findings....There is an absence of tangible or physical evidenceavailable for thorough laboratory analysis. And, because ofthe absence of such evidence, we have not been able to devise asound scientific procedure for investigating these phenomena.To proceed on a research task without a sound disciplinaryframework and an exploratory technique in mind would be wastefuland probably unproductive....I wish in no way to indicate that NASA has come to anyconclusion about these phenomena as such; institutionally, weretain an open mind....