Speaking of Blue Reef's solar panels, no thermal radiator is shown. Maybe they can get away with a flush panel like Crew Dragon, but that would go against shielding the exterior and be quite limited.
Quote from: Comga on 05/10/2023 07:21 pmSpeaking of Blue Reef's solar panels, no thermal radiator is shown. Maybe they can get away with a flush panel like Crew Dragon, but that would go against shielding the exterior and be quite limited.The body mounted radiators on Dragon and Haven look much the same.
Quote from: Skyrocket on 05/11/2023 12:06 amQuote from: Comga on 05/10/2023 07:21 pmSpeaking of Blue Reef's solar panels, no thermal radiator is shown. Maybe they can get away with a flush panel like Crew Dragon, but that would go against shielding the exterior and be quite limited.The body mounted radiators on Dragon and Haven look much the same.SpaceX might be a contractor as spacecraft propulsion also looks SpaceX sized along with the Dragon 1 type solar arrays.. It could also be artistic license.
Quote from: Comga on 05/10/2023 07:21 pmI truly wish Vast luck in their endeavors, but am not adding these flights to the my personal version of the manifest.I suspect Haven will be much like Skylab, fully fueled for its operational lifetime at launch. Yeah, that dome is definitely going to have to have a MMOD cover. However, keep in mind, Haven is not the end game for Vast - they are planning a much, much larger space station. This is likely to end up being like Tiangong 1/2, a precursor module visited only a few times before they launch the big multimodule space station.
I truly wish Vast luck in their endeavors, but am not adding these flights to the my personal version of the manifest.
Quote from: whitelancer64 on 05/10/2023 07:53 pmQuote from: Comga on 05/10/2023 07:21 pmI truly wish Vast luck in their endeavors, but am not adding these flights to the my personal version of the manifest.I suspect Haven will be much like Skylab, fully fueled for its operational lifetime at launch. Yeah, that dome is definitely going to have to have a MMOD cover. However, keep in mind, Haven is not the end game for Vast - they are planning a much, much larger space station. This is likely to end up being like Tiangong 1/2, a precursor module visited only a few times before they launch the big multimodule space station.Either the Ars or SpaceNews write up of this confirms they are trying to load it entirely on the ground, make use of Dragon for as much as possible, and they hope Haven-1 will be able to serve 3 30-day missions. The fact that they are only hoping to get 3 missions to the station seems to align with all the other details about not creating a new ISS, but really just a minimal viable product.Given they are self funded and from what I understand he has already made his scam money (meaning his billions of net worth are not tied up in a current scam company), it seem surprisingly possible.
Quote from: Mariusuiram on 05/11/2023 02:59 pmQuote from: whitelancer64 on 05/10/2023 07:53 pmQuote from: Comga on 05/10/2023 07:21 pmI truly wish Vast luck in their endeavors, but am not adding these flights to the my personal version of the manifest.I suspect Haven will be much like Skylab, fully fueled for its operational lifetime at launch. Yeah, that dome is definitely going to have to have a MMOD cover. However, keep in mind, Haven is not the end game for Vast - they are planning a much, much larger space station. This is likely to end up being like Tiangong 1/2, a precursor module visited only a few times before they launch the big multimodule space station.Either the Ars or SpaceNews write up of this confirms they are trying to load it entirely on the ground, make use of Dragon for as much as possible, and they hope Haven-1 will be able to serve 3 30-day missions. The fact that they are only hoping to get 3 missions to the station seems to align with all the other details about not creating a new ISS, but really just a minimal viable product.Given they are self funded and from what I understand he has already made his scam money (meaning his billions of net worth are not tied up in a current scam company), it seem surprisingly possible.3-30 day visits makes me think the business case is to sell up to twelve 30 day tourist trips to LEO.What's the cost per person that justifies the use of a Crew Dragon and a Space Station?
If $50 million per seat, 50x12 = $600 million. Here we are getting into government spending territory.
If $20 million per seat, 20x12 = $240 million. Less than this seems very implausible. If $25 million per seat, 25x12 = $300 million. If $30 million per seat, 30x12 = $360 million. If $35 million per seat, 35x12 = $420 million. +1 Bonus for funny number association. If $40 million per seat, 40x12 = $480 million. If $45 million per seat, 45x12 = $540 million. If $50 million per seat, 50x12 = $600 million. Here we are getting into government spending territory.
I expect Haven will be expensive to start with. Need Starship to make this stuff affordable.
Quote from: Robotbeat on 05/11/2023 07:35 pmI expect Haven will be expensive to start with. Need Starship to make this stuff affordable.I don't know that launch costs would affect the per seat cost per visitor. For easy math say the F9 launch is $60M, that's $5M per person.It will be years from now before Starships low launch costs really appear, but lets say it's $30M in 2-3 years, that's $2.5M per person.The biggest cost per person maybe Crew Dragon, then Haven and Haven launch costs far down the list.I think $100M per person to visit is a minimum.
One of the reasons to really like this concept is it's lack of ambition. That's a good thing! All of the mega-amazing designs for complex orbital facilities serviced by spaceplanes look great in renders, but are unlikely to ever be funded and/or technically feasible with current level technology. This one looks very doable, which means still challenging and the possibility of failure is high (space is hard), but achievable. Only requires two regular-stick F9 launches to make use of it at least one time is nice too, that's about as cheap from a launch perspective as you can get.
Quote from: wannamoonbase on 05/11/2023 08:09 pmQuote from: Robotbeat on 05/11/2023 07:35 pmI expect Haven will be expensive to start with. Need Starship to make this stuff affordable.I don't know that launch costs would affect the per seat cost per visitor. For easy math say the F9 launch is $60M, that's $5M per person.It will be years from now before Starships low launch costs really appear, but lets say it's $30M in 2-3 years, that's $2.5M per person.The biggest cost per person maybe Crew Dragon, then Haven and Haven launch costs far down the list.I think $100M per person to visit is a minimum.$60 million / 4 = $15 millionYes, the per seat would need to be more than that to cover the costs of building, outfitting, and operating the Haven station. $100 million per person would either be a huge amount of profit, or would assume that the Haven station will cost well in excess of $500 million in total.
Unveiling our Haven-1 primary structure pathfinder which proved we could build in house all the critical geometries, transitions, and interfaces of Haven-1. Next up - building the primary structure qualification article which will undergo pressure and load tests. Designed, manufactured, and tested in-house in the 🇺🇸
Vast’s Vibe Test Lab is crucial for testing Haven Demo and Haven-1 components for dynamic loads experienced during launch to low Earth orbit. With our in-house capabilities, we benefit from rapid response to design changes, accelerated timelines by avoiding outsourcing delays, and seamless feedback to engineering and design teams. Our vertically-integrated engineering approach is hardware rich and enhances product quality with a tight design/test feedback loop that will support our development and reliability as we head into long-term production of our commercial space habitats.
