Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : PPE/HALO : LC-39A : 2027  (Read 135188 times)

Offline lrk

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : PPE/HALO : NET 2025
« Reply #180 on: 02/09/2024 03:32 am »
<snip>
According to the Gateway Update Thread, construction on PPE and HALO is fairly far along?

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=51452.msg2541132#msg2541132
True. But if the integrated vehicle stack is overweight. They will need to reduce the mass somehow. Likely with re-working the internal arrangements and offloading mass to the Dragon XL logistics vehicle and/or the SpaceX HLS lander.

I recall that the xenon fuel is refillable.  So off loading propellant may also be an option.  I believe it was a sizeable load.
PPE has both electrical and chemical thrusters, and both the Xenon and the chemical fuel are refillable PPE was supposed to launch with about 2500 kg of fuel. However, it cannot be refilled until someone builds a spacecraft to carry that fuel. Unfortunately, the various redesigns have shifted the refilling concept around quite a bit, so it's hard to know what the current status is unless you are an insider (not me).

Apparently, in an early design the PPE was refuelled directly from a refueler. Then PPE was supposed to connect permanently and directly to ESPRIT, and the refueller would connect to ESPRIT. Now, PPE connects to HALO and ESPRIT connects to HALO, and the refueller connects to ESPRIT, and all of this happens in the far future.

To get past this mess in the short(?!) term, NASA could contract for a refueller that can connect directly to HALO using the port that will be used for ESPRIT. They could then launch PPE+HALO (almost) dry, and refuel in LEO, and then refuel again in NRHO.

I do not know  enough about the technology, processes, or politics to have a informed opinion, but my guess is that there is no possible way to get this done in time to be useful. It looks like the ESPRIT team would be best suited for this, but ESPRIT is an ESA project.

There is no sepearate refueling port on PPE now - it just goes through HALO.  The stack is being launched to a sort of GTO, not LEO.  This would make refueling difficult, and also minimizing the amount of time spent in the Van Allen belts is a major concern so hanging out to wait for re-fueling would not be ideal.  Off-loading some fuel and refueling in NRHO sooner is a possibility, though. 

It's best to think of PPE+HALO as basically one spacecraft at this point, with a number of ...interesting design choices carried over from being two spacecraft originally.  In retrospect, it would have been much cheaper (and more mass efficient) to start over and design an integrated spacecraft from the ground up.  But NASA has a strong aversion to paying termination costs - as seen with the Ares upper stage contract being modified to become the SLS core stage, instead of re-competing.  And since PPE/HALO were firm fixed price contracts originally, there has been a lot of time and money wasted just on negotiating contract modifications due to changing requirements. 
« Last Edit: 02/09/2024 03:34 am by lrk »

Offline lrk

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : PPE/HALO : NET 2025
« Reply #181 on: 02/09/2024 03:38 am »
Can SpaceX launch ppe/halo from SLC-6?¿‽¿?


The processing facilities can't handle it.
Yep. It will take awhile to convert slc-6. From a ref in Wikipedia:
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandenberg_Space_Launch_Complex_6#SpaceX_(from_2023)
"SpaceX expects to begin Falcon 9 launches from SLC-6 in 2025 and Falcon Heavy launches in 2026".
that doesn't seem an issue ppe/halo launch will slip to 2028-30 due to Artemis delays and no demo modules construction even. Issue is why can't the vandy facilities handle? This saves SpaceX money for additional vif tower. Also tell the delta v needed to reach near equatorial earth orbit of Moon from a Polar or 52 inclination orbit from vandy.

 Alternatively, lay down pad 39a rails till nasa's vab near sls vab that is leased to SpaceX for Starship. And roll Transporter erector vertically that I doubt it can move vertically as it rolls horizontally

PPE/HALO is planned to integrate horizontally with Falcon Heavy.  The processing facilities Jim is referring to are for payload processing - the complete vehicle is too big to transport, so the various pieces are being assembled at the cape. 

And launching from VAFB would further cut into the already-tight performance margins, due to the higher inclination. 

Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : PPE/HALO : NET 2025
« Reply #182 on: 02/09/2024 02:32 pm »
Surely they have already done the simplest mass reductions? The most obvious reduction (as seen from the outside by this uneducated observer) is to replace the PPE-to-HALO docking systems on both spacecraft with a fixed connection.

There is no docking systems.  The decision to fly HALO PPE together was done before PDR of either system.
there must be Ida for further add no modules.

Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : PPE/HALO : NET 2025
« Reply #183 on: 02/09/2024 02:43 pm »
Can SpaceX launch ppe/halo from SLC-6?¿‽¿?


The processing facilities can't handle it.
Yep. It will take awhile to convert slc-6. From a ref in Wikipedia:
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandenberg_Space_Launch_Complex_6#SpaceX_(from_2023)
"SpaceX expects to begin Falcon 9 launches from SLC-6 in 2025 and Falcon Heavy launches in 2026".
that doesn't seem an issue ppe/halo launch will slip to 2028-30 due to Artemis delays and no demo modules construction even. Issue is why can't the vandy facilities handle? This saves SpaceX money for additional vif tower. Also tell the delta v needed to reach near equatorial earth orbit of Moon from a Polar or 52 inclination orbit from vandy.

 Alternatively, lay down pad 39a rails till nasa's vab near sls vab that is leased to SpaceX for Starship. And roll Transporter erector vertically that I doubt it can move vertically as it rolls horizontally

PPE/HALO is planned to integrate horizontally with Falcon Heavy.  The processing facilities Jim is referring to are for payload processing - the complete vehicle is too big to transport, so the various pieces are being assembled at the cape. 

And launching from VAFB would further cut into the already-tight performance margins, due to the higher inclination.
I mean what ppe/halo can be integrated horizontally. Aiiiiah wait a minute

Ok just remembered that nauka type jumbo module was integrated horizontally. I assumed falsely that long fairing means you need VIF

Offline Jim

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : PPE/HALO : NET 2025
« Reply #184 on: 02/10/2024 01:29 pm »
Can SpaceX launch ppe/halo from SLC-6?¿‽¿?


The processing facilities can't handle it.
Yep. It will take awhile to convert slc-6. From a ref in Wikipedia:
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandenberg_Space_Launch_Complex_6#SpaceX_(from_2023)
"SpaceX expects to begin Falcon 9 launches from SLC-6 in 2025 and Falcon Heavy launches in 2026".
that doesn't seem an issue ppe/halo launch will slip to 2028-30 due to Artemis delays and no demo modules construction even. Issue is why can't the vandy facilities handle? This saves SpaceX money for additional vif tower. Also tell the delta v needed to reach near equatorial earth orbit of Moon from a Polar or 52 inclination orbit from vandy.

 Alternatively, lay down pad 39a rails till nasa's vab near sls vab that is leased to SpaceX for Starship. And roll Transporter erector vertically that I doubt it can move vertically as it rolls horizontally

PPE/HALO is planned to integrate horizontally with Falcon Heavy.  The processing facilities Jim is referring to are for payload processing - the complete vehicle is too big to transport, so the various pieces are being assembled at the cape. 

And launching from VAFB would further cut into the already-tight performance margins, due to the higher inclination.
I mean what ppe/halo can be integrated horizontally. Aiiiiah wait a minute

Ok just remembered that nauka type jumbo module was integrated horizontally. I assumed falsely that long fairing means you need VIF

nauka type jumbo module was one piece.


Falcon payloads are vertically encapsulated.

PPE is a standard Maxar spacecraft bus.   It is not design to be supported on its side.  When horizontal, it is cantilevered from its base.  The same area that is mated to HALO

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : PPE/HALO : NET 2025
« Reply #185 on: 03/04/2024 09:45 am »
IIRC it was at the January 9 media briefing (where the Artemis-2 and -3 launch schedule slips were announce) that some NASA official indicated an update would be coming soon on the expected PPE+HALO launch date. Has that update been made public?
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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : PPE/HALO : NET 2025
« Reply #186 on: 03/10/2024 12:48 am »
Here's the reference.
In the teleconference that was mainly about Artemis crew mission delays, at around 31m 30s, there was a comment that the schedule for PPE+HALO would be updated.

Had previously planned launch for October 2025. Now under review. "We will be updating that schedule here as well." That was January 9. Should we be expecting an update around February 9, or is that unrealistic?

youtube.com/watch?v=ZJVa0z5kZAk

Is March 9 unrealistic?
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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : PPE/HALO : NET 2025
« Reply #187 on: 03/11/2024 10:36 pm »
The President's budget request shows the launch in 2026
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Offline Alexphysics

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : PPE/HALO : NET 2025
« Reply #188 on: 03/12/2024 12:06 am »
The President's budget request shows the launch in 2026

In Fiscal Year 2026. So no change from the latest schedules.

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : PPE/HALO : NET 2025
« Reply #189 on: 03/12/2024 06:42 pm »
The President's budget request shows the launch in 2026

In Fiscal Year 2026. So no change from the latest schedules.

Ah thanks, yes: NET 2025 calendar Q4 == NET 2026 fiscal Q1.
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Offline PM3

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : PPE/HALO : NET 2025
« Reply #190 on: 03/26/2024 09:04 am »
The President's budget request shows the launch in 2026

It also mentions a "baseline launch readiness date" of December 2027, on page DEXP-49 and following:

Quote
Gateway Initial Capability includes the Power and Propulsion Element (PPE), the Habitation and Logistics Outpost (HALO), the commercial launch vehicle for initial launch, and a portion of Program Mission Execution (PME).

The proposed funding levels sufficiently allow the program to support development of Gateway's Initial Capability as soon as is technically feasible. While the confirmation baseline launch readiness date is December 2027, NASA is re-assessing the Gateway Initial Capability work-to launch date, which currently is targeted for no earlier than (NET) October 2025.

Milestone: Initial Capability LRD
Confirmation Baseline Date: Dec 2027
FY 2025 PB Request: Dec 2027

https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/nasa-fy-2025-congressional-justification.pdf
« Last Edit: 03/26/2024 09:09 am by PM3 »
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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : PPE/HALO : NET 202x
« Reply #191 on: 04/26/2024 09:06 pm »
In today's NAC HEO meeting they said the FH is expendable, can't remember if they've said so explicitly before.

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : PPE/HALO : NET 202x
« Reply #192 on: 06/10/2024 02:36 pm »
Gateway’s HALO Making Moves

Quote
The Gateway space station’s HALO (Habitation and Logistics Outpost), one of four modules where astronauts will live, conduct science, and prepare for lunar surface missions, is a step closer to launch following welding completion in Turin, Italy, a milestone highlighted by NASA earlier this year.

Teams at Thales Alenia Space gently guide HALO to a new location in the company’s facility for a series of stress tests to ensure the module’s safety. Upon successful completion, the future home for astronauts will travel to Gilbert, Arizona, where Northrop Grumman will complete final outfitting ahead of launch to lunar orbit with Gateway’s Power and Propulsion Element.

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : PPE/HALO : NET 202x
« Reply #193 on: 06/20/2024 05:52 pm »
Launch has to occur No Later Then September 2027 to be able to support the Artemis IV mission in September 2028:

Quote
GAO: Assessments of Major Projects
June 2024

[...]

Cost and Schedule Status
[...]
The HALO project is working with its contractor, the PPE project, NASA, and its international partners to update its internal project schedule. Program officials stated the comanifested vehicle needs to launch at least a year before the September 2028 Artemis IV mission to allow time for the vehicle to transit from Earth to the moon and prepare for docking. Therefore, NASA would need to integrate the HALO and the PPE and launch them by September 2027 to support the mission. Program officials said they plan to work to a more aggressive internal launch date than the baseline launch date but have not yet determined this new date.
[...]
« Last Edit: 06/20/2024 05:53 pm by GewoonLukas_ »
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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : PPE/HALO : LC-39A : NLT September 2027
« Reply #194 on: 10/03/2024 02:06 pm »
Gateway Stands Tall for Stress Test [Oct 3]

Quote
Gateway’s HALO (Habitation and Logistics Outpost) successfully completed static load testing, a rigorous stress test of how well the structure responds to the forces encountered in deep space. Thales Alenia Space, subcontractor to Northrop Grumman, conducted the testing in Turin, Italy. Static load testing is one of the major environmental stress tests HALO will undergo, and once all phases of testing are complete, the module will be ready to move from Italy to Gilbert, Arizona, where Northrop Grumman will complete final outfitting.

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : PPE/HALO : LC-39A : NLT September 2027
« Reply #195 on: 11/21/2024 10:42 pm »
Gateway Tops Off [Nov 20]

Quote
Gateway’s Power and Propulsion Element, which will make the lunar space station the most powerful solar electric spacecraft ever flown, recently received the xenon and liquid fuel tanks for its journey to and around the Moon.

Technicians in Palo Alto, California carefully install a piece of equipment that will house the tanks. Once fully assembled and launched to lunar orbit, the Power and Propulsion Element’s roll-out solar arrays – together about the size of an American football field endzone – will harness the Sun’s energy to energize xenon gas and produce the thrust to get Gateway to the Moon’s orbit where it will await the arrival of its first crew on the Artemis IV mission.

Technicians Install Gateway’s Fuel Tanks [Dec 2]

Quote
Technicians guide the equipment that will house Gateway’s xenon and liquid fuel tanks in this photo from July 1, 2024. The tanks are part of Gateway’s Power and Propulsion Element, which will make the lunar space station the most powerful solar electric spacecraft ever flown. Once fully assembled and launched to lunar orbit, the Power and Propulsion Element’s roll-out solar arrays will harness the Sun’s energy to energize xenon gas and produce the thrust to get Gateway to the Moon’s orbit where it will await the arrival of its first crew on the Artemis IV mission.
« Last Edit: 12/02/2024 08:03 pm by StraumliBlight »

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : PPE/HALO : LC-39A : 2027
« Reply #196 on: 02/23/2025 06:54 pm »
Update Report from Phillip Sloss:

Quote
The Gateway HALO module is almost ready to ship to the U.S. from Italy, and thanks to NSF/NASASpaceflight we got a good look at the current state of the primary structure in a Thales Alenia Space media event.  (Link below to more NSF coverage of the media event.)

Timestamps:
10:03 Gateway HALO module at Thales Alenia Space media event in Turin
10:45 NSF's Adrian Beil at the Turin media event
11:50 Additional reporting on Gateway status from NASA PAO

The video link is set to play at the timestamp above:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=DScjQq-nfK8#t=602s
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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : PPE/HALO : LC-39A : 2027
« Reply #197 on: 04/04/2025 03:36 pm »
https://twitter.com/NASA_Gateway/status/1908180467620192551

NASA Welcomes Gateway Lunar Space Station’s HALO Module to US [Apr 4]

Quote
A core component of Gateway, humanity’s first space station around the Moon, is now on American soil and one step closer to launch. In lunar orbit, Gateway will support NASA’s Artemis campaign to return humans to the Moon and chart a path of scientific discovery toward the first crewed missions to Mars.

Gateway’s first pressurized module and one of its two foundational elements, HALO (Habitation and Logistics Outpost), arrived in Arizona on April 1. Fresh off a transatlantic journey from Thales Alenia Space in Turin, Italy, the structure will undergo final outfitting at Northrop Grumman’s integration and test facility before being integrated with Gateway’s Power and Propulsion Element at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida. The pair of modules will launch together on a SpaceX Falcon Heavy rocket.

Gateway’s First Habitation Module Arrives Stateside [Apr 7]

Quote
Now on U.S. soil, the module will undergo final outfitting by primary contractor Northrop Grumman before it’s integrated with the Power and Propulsion Element at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center. Together, the two modules will launch to lunar orbit aboard a SpaceX Falcon Heavy rocket ahead of the Artemis IV mission.

Photo Gallery

https://twitter.com/NASA_Gateway/status/1914325611356520713
https://twitter.com/NASA_Gateway/status/1915910174222565763

HALO Arrives Stateside [Apr 30]
« Last Edit: 05/01/2025 04:10 pm by StraumliBlight »

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : PPE/HALO : LC-39A : 2027
« Reply #198 on: 07/04/2025 11:54 am »
Redwire Successfully Deploys the Most Powerful Roll-Out Solar Arrays Ever Built, Prepares for Major Delivery in Fourth Quarter [Jul 2]

Quote
Redwire Corporation today announced that it has successfully completed the first deployment test for one of its Roll-Out Solar Arrays (ROSA) for the lunar Gateway’s Power and Propulsion Element (PPE). Powered by PPE and Redwire’s trailblazing ROSAs, the Gateway will represent the pinnacle of solar electric propulsion technology, a key capability not just for future exploration missions to the Moon and Mars, but for national security platforms as well.  The Gateway ROSAs will generate an unprecedented 60kW – making these the most powerful ROSAs ever built.

[...]

Redwire was contracted by Maxar, the prime contractor for PPE, to develop two ROSA wings. The pair of PPE ROSAs will undergo additional testing in the coming months as Redwire prepares to deliver the ROSA wings to Maxar in the fourth quarter of 2025.





Redwire Q2 Earnings Presentation [Aug 7]

Quote
Redwire successfully completed the first deployment test for one of its ROSA wings for the lunar Gateway's Power and Propulsion Element.  These ROSAs will generate an unprecedented 60kW - the most powerful ROSAs ever built.

Redwire is preparing to deliver the pair to Maxar in the fourth quarter of 2025.
« Last Edit: 08/07/2025 01:52 pm by StraumliBlight »

Offline AndrewM

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : PPE/HALO : LC-39A : 2027
« Reply #199 on: 07/12/2025 03:21 am »
The FY26 NASA PBR proposed cancelling Gateway on page EXP-23 (sheet 49) but it also stated that at the time of the budget request the LRD was still December 2027 according to page CSP-3 (sheet 443). Both pages referenced are in the budget technical supplement.

The reconciliation bill appropriated $2.6B for Gateway across 2026-2028 so the LRD date of December 2027 should still be valid.

Quote
In General.--In addition to amounts otherwise available,
there is appropriated to the Administration for fiscal year 2025, out
of any money in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated,
$9,995,000,000, to remain available until September 30, 2032, to use as
follows:

Quote
(2)  $2,600,000,000 to meet the requirements of section
    20302(a) using the program of record known, as of the date of the
    enactment of this section, as `Gateway', and as described in
    section 10811(b)(2)(B)(iv) of the National Aeronautics and Space
    Administration Authorization Act of 2022 (51 U.S.C. 20302 note;
    Public Law 117-167), of which not less than $750,000,000 shall be
    obligated for each of fiscal years 2026, 2027, and 2028.

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