Author Topic: ISS RS: Nauka Multipurpose Laboratory Module-Upgrade (MLM-U) General Updates and Discussion Thread  (Read 802865 times)

Offline Danderman

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Those banks of six thrusters are for roll control? Are they an existing model?

Actually, it's 7 thrusters on each side of the node, and 5 thrusters on each side of the forward body, exactly the same as FGB.


It has additional ones

Where?    ???

What are the red covered things in a 2x3 clusters?

http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2012/im/photo_12-14-07.jpg
http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2012/im/photo_12-14-11.jpg

Could be small roll control thrusters.

Offline russianhalo117

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Those banks of six thrusters are for roll control? Are they an existing model?
Actually, it's 7 thrusters on each side of the node, and 5 thrusters on each side of the forward body, exactly the same as FGB.
It has additional ones
Where?    ???
What are the red covered things in a 2x3 clusters?
http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2012/im/photo_12-14-07.jpg
http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2012/im/photo_12-14-11.jpg
Could be small roll control thrusters.
I already mentioned this in a later post. There 4 sets of 2x3 thruster clusters with 2 on each side in the directions of + roll and - roll from what I can tell so far (this does not account for the additional 4 sets in the roll orientation that are located at a diagonal on the zenith and nadir ends of MLM).
« Last Edit: 12/17/2012 02:19 am by russianhalo117 »

Offline woods170

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Regarding MLM docking adaptors... 

- MLM Nadir has Passive Transformed Hybrid adaptor, able to support Active Hybrid & Active Standard Probe spacecraft. It's clear.

Is it? The standard drogue and cone docking system used on current Soyuz and Progress spacecraft (SSVP-G4000) features a docking-ring that is considerably smaller in diameter than the docking-ring on the hybrid system (SSVP-M8000). Also, it only holds eight hook&latch assemblies, as opposed to the twelve carried on APAS and hybrid systems. As far as I know the hybrid system features drogue and cone, but in combination with an APAS-89/95-sized docking ring.

So, either
- the nadir docking port on MLM features a system that can handle both, different diameter, docking-rings (Soyuz size and APAS-89/95 size)
OR
- the Soyuz and Progress spacecraft planned to dock with MLM nadir are equipped with hybrid docking ports, in stead of the standard docking ports.

With all the images of MLM so far showing the nadir port covered with a red cover plate, I have no clue as to what type of docking port it actually holds. The only thing clear to me is the diameter: that clearly is APAS-89/95 size.

Offline russianhalo117

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Regarding MLM docking adaptors... 

- MLM Nadir has Passive Transformed Hybrid adaptor, able to support Active Hybrid & Active Standard Probe spacecraft. It's clear.

Is it? The standard drogue and cone docking system used on current Soyuz and Progress spacecraft (SSVP-G4000) features a docking-ring that is considerably smaller in diameter than the docking-ring on the hybrid system (SSVP-M8000). Also, it only holds eight hook&latch assemblies, as opposed to the twelve carried on APAS and hybrid systems. As far as I know the hybrid system features drogue and cone, but in combination with an APAS-89/95-sized docking ring.

So, either
- the nadir docking port on MLM features a system that can handle both, different diameter, docking-rings (Soyuz size and APAS-89/95 size)
OR
- the Soyuz and Progress spacecraft planned to dock with MLM nadir are equipped with hybrid docking ports, in stead of the standard docking ports.

With all the images of MLM so far showing the nadir port covered with a red cover plate, I have no clue as to what type of docking port it actually holds. The only thing clear to me is the diameter: that clearly is APAS-89/95 size.

here is a photo posted last year of the nadir docking ring. not sure of image date though but this image shows evidence that some FGB/2 era hardware has been removed for the MLM conversion. Note SSVP-G4000 interface not completely removed yet. This is most recent picture that i could find without the annoying red remove before encapsulation and flight cover.

Offline Raul

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So, either
- the nadir docking port on MLM features a system that can handle both, different diameter, docking-rings (Soyuz size and APAS-89/95 size)

Yes. Nadir MLM port will be able to handle both diameters - standard SSVP and hybrid SSVP-M (APAS ring). It means for Soyuz/Progress spacecraft via standard SSVP and later for Progress M-UM with Nodal Module(UM) via SSVP-M.
Same port will have also UM nadir.

OR
- the Soyuz and Progress spacecraft planned to dock with MLM nadir are equipped with hybrid docking ports, in stead of the standard docking ports.

Negative. According Anik's schedule there is planning also relocation of Soyuz TMA-12M between MLM nadir and Poisk.

Offline woods170

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So, either
- the nadir docking port on MLM features a system that can handle both, different diameter, docking-rings (Soyuz size and APAS-89/95 size)

Yes. Nadir MLM port will be able to handle both diameters - standard SSVP and hybrid SSVP-M (APAS ring). It means for Soyuz/Progress spacecraft via standard SSVP and later for Progress M-UM with Nodal Module(UM) via SSVP-M.
Same port will have also UM nadir.

OK, thanks Raul. One further question: will changing from standard Drogue&Cone (standard SVPP) to hybrid Drogue&Cone (SSVP-M) require (manual) re-configuration by the ISS crew?

Offline Raul

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OK, thanks Raul. One further question: will changing from standard Drogue&Cone (standard SVPP) to hybrid Drogue&Cone (SSVP-M) require (manual) re-configuration by the ISS crew?
Any reconfiguration would be not necessary.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=22914.msg676619#msg676619
« Last Edit: 12/17/2012 09:10 pm by Raul »

Offline Danderman

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Regarding MLM docking adaptors... 

- MLM Nadir has Passive Transformed Hybrid adaptor, able to support Active Hybrid & Active Standard Probe spacecraft. It's clear.

Is it? The standard drogue and cone docking system used on current Soyuz and Progress spacecraft (SSVP-G4000) features a docking-ring that is considerably smaller in diameter than the docking-ring on the hybrid system (SSVP-M8000). Also, it only holds eight hook&latch assemblies, as opposed to the twelve carried on APAS and hybrid systems. As far as I know the hybrid system features drogue and cone, but in combination with an APAS-89/95-sized docking ring.

So, either
- the nadir docking port on MLM features a system that can handle both, different diameter, docking-rings (Soyuz size and APAS-89/95 size)

Yes.
« Last Edit: 12/17/2012 03:38 pm by Danderman »

Offline Danderman

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It will fly with KURS-NA systems onboard. So we may see different Soyuz/Progress design similar to Mir APAS, but this I have yet to confirm even though I have found animation still of UM with IDSS-APAS Docking systems and New Generation KURS-NA design. I have not seen it recently though.

I have not yet seen Kurs-NA antennas on MLM yet. Also, does this mean that the module will fly with a Kurs-NA passive box, or will it also carry an active Kurs-NA box for docking with ISS?

I have held one of the planned MLM Kurs-cm active antennas in my hand (a short range antenna), so I would be surprised if there were  a change in its active docking system.

Offline russianhalo117

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It will fly with KURS-NA systems onboard. So we may see different Soyuz/Progress design similar to Mir APAS, but this I have yet to confirm even though I have found animation still of UM with IDSS-APAS Docking systems and New Generation KURS-NA design. I have not seen it recently though.

I have not yet seen Kurs-NA antennas on MLM yet. Also, does this mean that the module will fly with a Kurs-NA passive box, or will it also carry an active Kurs-NA box for docking with ISS?

I have held one of the planned MLM Kurs-cm active antennas in my hand (a short range antenna), so I would be surprised if there were  a change in its active docking system.

I do not completely know but UM is to use it when docks.

Offline 360-180

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With all the images of MLM so far showing the nadir port covered with a red cover plate, I have no clue as to what type of docking port it actually holds. The only thing clear to me is the diameter: that clearly is APAS-89/95 size.

My X-ray generator gave such a picture  ;)

Offline woods170

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With all the images of MLM so far showing the nadir port covered with a red cover plate, I have no clue as to what type of docking port it actually holds. The only thing clear to me is the diameter: that clearly is APAS-89/95 size.

My X-ray generator gave such a picture  ;)
I see you used the features on the red cover to outline items underneath. And guess what your "X-ray" picture looks like: a standard SSVP-G4000 interface.
So, what is underneath that red cover is the passive side of a standard drogue and cone docking assembly.
I have an image at home that shows intitial integration of ERA onto MLM some months ago (fit-check). That image also shows part of the nadir docking port, again with a red cover on it. And that image also shows the outlines of the standard SSVP-G4000. I'll post that image later today when I'm back home.

For now it looks like there is NOT a transformed hybrid docking port on MLM nadir. But that still might change during the period at Energia.

Edit: there might be a transformed hybrid docking port after all. See my post directly below.
« Last Edit: 12/21/2012 10:44 am by woods170 »

Offline woods170

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Hmm, looking again at the pictures from the move to Energia I noticed something.

WHY are there apparently two docking-interfaces stacked on top of each other at MLM nadir?

The top one is obviously a SSVP-G4000 interface. It's circumference is a dark grey color.
Underneath is a much lighter colored ring, slightly larger in diameter.
I find this odd, because the port for the scientific airlock shows only one ring, the lighter colored one. The nadir port is very much different. To me it looks like two rings, stacked on top of each other.

Now, what if this "Transformed Hybrid Docking Interface" really means: "An SSVP-G4000 unit stacked on top of an SSVP-M8000 unit"?

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Offline woods170

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And to close this out I've added two pictures of Zarya. It covers the docking port in the location that - on MLM - would be the nadir position.

As we know, Zarya has a APAS docking port in that location. And Zarya carries only one ring in that location. That's why I noticed the double-ring appearance on MLM nadir.
« Last Edit: 12/21/2012 10:47 am by woods170 »

Offline Space Pete

I think you've got it, Woods - there is simply a probe/drogue style (SSVP-G4000) ring stacked atop an APAS (SSVP-M8000) ring. So it's basically just an APAS-to-probe/drogue adapter. When the last probe/cone vehicle departs MLM nadir, it will probably take the adapter with it.
« Last Edit: 12/21/2012 11:00 am by Space Pete »
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Offline woods170

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I think you've got it, Woods - there is simply a probe/drogue style (SSVP-G4000) ring stacked atop an APAS (SSVP-M8000) ring. So it's basically just an APAS-to-probe/drogue adapter. When the last probe/cone vehicle departs MLM nadir, it will probably take the adapter with it.

Yeah, that sounds logical. Let's assume for a minute here that such last vehicle is a Soyuz or Progress. The adapter would then be discarded of when the orbital module burns up in the atmosphere. However, with the added mass of the adapter the returning vehicle would probably have to use more fuel for the de-orbit burn. Correct?

Offline Space Pete

However, with the added mass of the adapter the returning vehicle would probably have to use more fuel for the de-orbit burn. Correct?

According to anik's schedule (and assuming the current MLM launch date holds), the last vehicle to depart MLM Nadir prior to UM arrival will be Progress M-24M.

So, with regard increased fuel usage, I would say that you're correct. The adapter may also have an affect on attitude control. I don't know how much fuel margin is available on Progresses post-deorbit burn, or whether the Progress would need to fly with additional fuel (i.e. less dry cargo).

« Last Edit: 12/21/2012 11:39 am by Space Pete »
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Offline Raul

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Much bigger mass has DC-1 Pirs module, which is planned to burn in atmosphere together with Progress M-20M. So such adapter would be not so big problem.

But I think that such adapter would be useful to have it later at Nodal Module, so maybe would be better to relocate it by ERA manipulator, than sent it to atmosphere with Progress. Even when UM will have own adapter, one spare adapter would be useful I think.

Offline woods170

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Much bigger mass has DC-1 Pirs module, which is planned to burn in atmosphere together with Progress M-20M. So such adapter would be not so big problem.

But I think that such adapter would be useful to have it later at Nodal Module, so maybe would be better to relocate it by ERA manipulator, than sent it to atmosphere with Progress. Even when UM will have own adapter, one spare adapter would be useful I think.
Well, the adapter is visible from just about every angle in the pictures from the transfer of MLM to Energia. However, no grapple fixture for ERA (or SSRMS for that matter) is visible on the adapter. So, such a suggested re-location is likely not going to happen.

Offline 360-180

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I twirled viner on my x-ray generator and got a picture docking mechanism before the arrival of the UM (Узловой Модуль) ;)

Well, the adapter is visible from just about every angle in the pictures from the transfer of MLM to Energia. However, no grapple fixture for ERA (or SSRMS for that matter) is visible on the adapter. So, such a suggested re-location is likely not going to happen.
After joining the MLM to the ISS, Multifunction Laboratory Module  will be used for docking of Progress M-22M, Soyuz TMA-12M and another Progress M-24M, which will remove the "Hybrid-SSVP4000 adapter". After that MLM will be 14-15 years attached to the UM. So the ability to disconnect and re-connect the adapter to the MLM is not necessary (as opposed to adapter UM Nadir)
« Last Edit: 12/21/2012 03:54 pm by 360-180 »

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