Author Topic: Humanoid Robots for Moon and Mars  (Read 260803 times)

Online catdlr

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Re: Humanoid Robots for Moon and Mars
« Reply #460 on: 09/22/2025 10:46 pm »
Quote
Unitree
@UnitreeRobotics
Unitree G1 has mastered more quirky skills 🤩
Unitree G1 has learned the "Anti-Gravity" mode: stability is greatly improved under any action sequence, and even if it falls, it can quickly get back up.



https://twitter.com/UnitreeRobotics/status/1970039940022239491
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Re: Humanoid Robots for Moon and Mars
« Reply #461 on: 09/23/2025 04:37 pm »
I'd imagine the G1 in ended up with it's motors in flames by the end all that activity.  :)

Wandercraft showed a short video of their Calvin robot lifting a tire this week.  In some ways more impressive since it's vaguely useful, especially since they have a partnership with Renault.

It looks like an exoskeleton without a human occupant, as that's essentially what it is.

https://youtube.com/shorts/kw2v39rfuw8?si=fwcyanM5jJ06A63_

Offline Coastal Ron

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Re: Humanoid Robots for Moon and Mars
« Reply #462 on: 10/02/2025 10:57 pm »
An interesting perspective on current humanoid robots by someone that should know:

Why iRobot’s founder won’t go within 10 feet of today’s walking robots - Ars Technica

The blog post referenced is here.

For me, the topic of end effectors has always been under appreciated in my opinion, so this is a relevant quote from the Ars Technica article:
Quote
These approaches, Brooks argues, ignore decades of research showing that human dexterity depends on an extraordinarily complex touch-sensing system. He cites work from Roland Johansson's lab at Umeå University showing that when a person's fingertips are anesthetized, a seven-second task of picking up and lighting a match stretches to nearly 30 seconds of fumbling. The human hand contains about 17,000 mechanoreceptors, with 1,000 concentrated in each fingertip alone. Recent research from David Ginty's lab at Harvard has identified 15 families of neurons involved in touch sensing, detecting everything from gentle indentation to vibrations to skin stretching. That's a lot of sensory information that current robot systems cannot yet capture or simulate.

But he does think that hybrid type robots will eventually become dominate over humanoid types, so it isn't like he is anti-robot, just that he doesn't think the current approach for vision and end effectors is the right path.

I've long thought that for Mars that wheeled robots make the most sense, and this kind of relates to that.
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Offline sanman

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Re: Humanoid Robots for Moon and Mars
« Reply #463 on: 10/04/2025 11:20 pm »
Optimus busting out the martial arts moves



And everybody was kung-fu fighting...

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1974338806305411516

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1974341720944017505


I'll only start worrying when it can use a plasma rifle, in the 40 watt range
« Last Edit: 10/04/2025 11:30 pm by sanman »

Offline SpaceLizard

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Re: Humanoid Robots for Moon and Mars
« Reply #464 on: 10/04/2025 11:32 pm »
What's that guy in the background holding? At first I thought it was a video game controller because that's how he holds it for most of the video. But it looks more like a tv remote with a lanyard at the end of the video. Emergency off switch maybe?
Edit: Or is he providing some sort of general input to the optimus? Advance, arm strike, kick, with the optimus deciding how best to fulfill those inputs?
« Last Edit: 10/04/2025 11:38 pm by SpaceLizard »

Online catdlr

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Re: Humanoid Robots for Moon and Mars
« Reply #465 on: 10/04/2025 11:51 pm »
What's that guy in the background holding? At first I thought it was a video game controller because that's how he holds it for most of the video. But it looks more like a tv remote with a lanyard at the end of the video. Emergency off switch maybe?
Edit: Or is he providing some sort of general input to the optimus? Advance, arm strike, kick, with the optimus deciding how best to fulfill those inputs?

I've seen some consumer versions with just a small handheld device with preprogrammed moves (martial arts moves). In one video, the robot almost swung at the kid who was operating it.
« Last Edit: 10/04/2025 11:51 pm by catdlr »
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Offline sanman

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Re: Humanoid Robots for Moon and Mars
« Reply #466 on: 10/06/2025 01:45 am »
What's with those weird hands/arms? I assume there are no actuators inside them and they're just mannequin hands/arms?
Otherwise, I don't see how they could look like that


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Re: Humanoid Robots for Moon and Mars
« Reply #467 on: 10/06/2025 06:55 am »
What's with those weird hands/arms? I assume there are no actuators inside them and they're just mannequin hands/arms?
Otherwise, I don't see how they could look like that

It's just a dummy hand. Tendon driven hands from various companies are getting quite close to human size/shape, including the one Tesla have demoed.  Among the challenges are fitting the 20+ actuators in the forearm, tendons propensity to stretch, manufacturing etc

Tesla are rumoured to have problems with the tendon design. The 'V3' hand is expected to move to a hybrid approach, combining tendons and linkages.

That video does highlight a big issue with the current version of Optimus. It has to pause for ages to operate safely around people.  A squisher, lighter and more compliant robot, like 1x's Neo, doesn't need a safe zone around it.


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Re: Humanoid Robots for Moon and Mars
« Reply #468 on: 10/06/2025 01:33 pm »
Quote
Thomas Wolf@Thom_Wolf
·
Oct 5
Wow! Super impressive work by the new Amazon FAR team (from Covariant acquisition).

Mapping long sequences of human motion (>30 sec) on robots with a differing shapes or interating with objects (box, table, etc) of different size. Enabling easier in-simulation data-augmentation and zero-shoot transfer.

Super impressive and huge help to reduce the need for human teleop data (which is very complex to gather for humanoids)

Dataset trajectories on Hugging Face (search OmniRetarget), full code framework to come soon

Project page has some pretty three.js interactive demos

https://twitter.com/Thom_Wolf/status/1974774416815857779
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Online catdlr

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Re: Humanoid Robots for Moon and Mars
« Reply #469 on: 10/06/2025 01:36 pm »
Quote
Rohan Paul@rohanpaul_ai
·
Oct 4
A Sydney-based startup, Crest Robotics, has built huge spider-like robot, named Charlotte.

It's designed to 3D print entire buildings using raw materials it processes on site.

And there are ambitions for it to build structures on the Moon.

https://twitter.com/rohanpaul_ai/status/1974603751945277450
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Offline Twark_Main

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Re: Humanoid Robots for Moon and Mars
« Reply #470 on: 10/07/2025 03:11 am »
Quote from: Rohan Paul@rohanpaul_ai
spider-like robot, named Charlotte.

At first this was surprising to read since eight legs are redundant — you only need six for complete control without any weight shifting.

But this does have six legs! I guess the inventors forgot the word "insect" exists. :)

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Re: Humanoid Robots for Moon and Mars
« Reply #472 on: 10/08/2025 03:52 pm »

Boston Dynamics chat about the three fingered gripper that Atlas uses. 

I really like rugged nature of the design. For something with only 7 DoF it still has a fair amount of general purpose utility.  They do talk towards the end of the video about the next version.  Broadening the tasks they're looking at is pushing the design towards something more anthropomorphic.  I hope it retains some of more funky stuff, like the 'floating' thumb.


Online JulesVerneATV

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Re: Humanoid Robots for Moon and Mars
« Reply #473 on: 10/09/2025 10:00 pm »
The issues and challenges, Apptronik CEO Jeff Cardenas. What It Takes to Build a Real Humanoid Robot



robotics capabilities

Offline InterestedEngineer

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Re: Humanoid Robots for Moon and Mars
« Reply #474 on: 10/22/2025 07:22 pm »
score one for Robotic Rovers with wheels

https://x.com/ti_morse/status/1980736116727972120

Offline sanman

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Re: Humanoid Robots for Moon and Mars
« Reply #475 on: 12/04/2025 03:11 am »
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1995974292300071015

Nice human-like gait, but how long/far can it run like that?



Discussion of the run, and also of the newer hand
« Last Edit: 12/04/2025 03:51 am by sanman »

Offline Twark_Main

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Re: Humanoid Robots for Moon and Mars
« Reply #476 on: 12/04/2025 03:45 pm »
Nice human-like gait, but how long/far can it run like that?

I expect the truly native "robot-optimized" gaits will be all about minimizing wear-and-tear on the mechanical components, and (secondarily) energy optimization.

Minimizing total all-cause wear-and-tear is mostly about not falling over (low risk gait), and secondarily about minimizing shock and vibration on actuators and bearings.

In a factory context, you don't care if the robots have a "human-like" gait, but you definitely care about your monthly maintenance bill...
« Last Edit: 12/04/2025 04:59 pm by Twark_Main »

Offline sanman

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Re: Humanoid Robots for Moon and Mars
« Reply #477 on: 12/04/2025 11:12 pm »
Nice human-like gait, but how long/far can it run like that?

I expect the truly native "robot-optimized" gaits will be all about minimizing wear-and-tear on the mechanical components, and (secondarily) energy optimization.

Minimizing total all-cause wear-and-tear is mostly about not falling over (low risk gait), and secondarily about minimizing shock and vibration on actuators and bearings.

In a factory context, you don't care if the robots have a "human-like" gait, but you definitely care about your monthly maintenance bill...

In that case, maybe then there should also be some wheels included on those feet. The hybrid approach does seem to hold some potential in catering to both sets of needs.
With bipedal walking offering the adaptive dynamic stabilization for irregular terrain, and wheels offering the stability and efficiency of rolling across flat surfaces, then what's the best way to marry them both? We've seen it done with the quadruped-wheeled robots already posted upthread, but what's the best way to do it with a bipedal humanoid form-factor & posture?

Offline Coastal Ron

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Re: Humanoid Robots for Moon and Mars
« Reply #478 on: 12/04/2025 11:46 pm »
...
With bipedal walking offering the adaptive dynamic stabilization for irregular terrain, and wheels offering the stability and efficiency of rolling across flat surfaces, then what's the best way to marry them both? We've seen it done with the quadruped-wheeled robots already posted upthread, but what's the best way to do it with a bipedal humanoid form-factor & posture?

What happens in the startup world quite often is that solutions are created for problems that have not been identified yet - or aren't a problem. The push by Musk et al. for bipedal humanoid robots kind of feels that way sometimes, that the solution is be created before the problem is well defined - at least for Mars.

Assuming that bipedal humanoid robots are necessary for colonizing Mars is a great example of this, because we don't yet know what the "jobs" are that need to be solved by robots of any kind, much less bipedal ones.

If you need to move material around on the surface of Mars, then a wheeled vehicle may be best. If you need to take rock samples on the side of a steep, rocky slope, then a bipedal humanoid robot may be best. Between those two limited examples I would think that moving material round on the surface of Mars will be a far more predominate need than gathering rock samples from steep slopes.

We are still many years away from sending humans to Mars, or even sending advance cargo to Mars. However as we get closer, and the payloads, machinery, and needs become clearer, then we can start figuring out what kind of automated or semi-automated robotic systems we will need.

But if you want to debate the solution (i.e. bipedal vs wheeled) then you first need to define the "jobs to be done", so that you have some ability to rank the solutions.
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline rsdavis9

Re: Humanoid Robots for Moon and Mars
« Reply #479 on: 12/05/2025 01:36 pm »
...
With bipedal walking offering the adaptive dynamic stabilization for irregular terrain, and wheels offering the stability and efficiency of rolling across flat surfaces, then what's the best way to marry them both? We've seen it done with the quadruped-wheeled robots already posted upthread, but what's the best way to do it with a bipedal humanoid form-factor & posture?

What happens in the startup world quite often is that solutions are created for problems that have not been identified yet - or aren't a problem. The push by Musk et al. for bipedal humanoid robots kind of feels that way sometimes, that the solution is be created before the problem is well defined - at least for Mars.

Assuming that bipedal humanoid robots are necessary for colonizing Mars is a great example of this, because we don't yet know what the "jobs" are that need to be solved by robots of any kind, much less bipedal ones.

If you need to move material around on the surface of Mars, then a wheeled vehicle may be best. If you need to take rock samples on the side of a steep, rocky slope, then a bipedal humanoid robot may be best. Between those two limited examples I would think that moving material round on the surface of Mars will be a far more predominate need than gathering rock samples from steep slopes.

We are still many years away from sending humans to Mars, or even sending advance cargo to Mars. However as we get closer, and the payloads, machinery, and needs become clearer, then we can start figuring out what kind of automated or semi-automated robotic systems we will need.

But if you want to debate the solution (i.e. bipedal vs wheeled) then you first need to define the "jobs to be done", so that you have some ability to rank the solutions.

Anybody remember lost in space where robby the robot would have a sled he stepped on and zoom around on. Isn't that the obvious solution to the bipedal vs wheeled "problem".
With ELV best efficiency was the paradigm. The new paradigm is reusable, good enough, and commonality of design.
Same engines. Design once. Same vehicle. Design once. Reusable. Build once.

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