Author Topic: Starlink : Regulatory Filings outside the United States  (Read 59060 times)

Offline su27k

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reddit user /u/_EXPLOSIONS_ found out SpaceX has submitted an application for Basic International Telecommunications Services (BITS) Licence in Canada, I couldn't find any details on the Canadian website though, it's just a number and a name, which you can see by go here and sort by posted date, descending. The application number is "8190-S206-202002799", posted date is May 20th.
« Last Edit: 03/15/2021 01:02 pm by gongora »

Offline flyright

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Re: Starlink : Regulatory Filings in Other Countries
« Reply #1 on: 05/23/2020 01:47 pm »
Likewise couldn't find any details of what's in the application, but found the 75 or so "Interventions" interesting to read. All the comments I read were in favor of approving the application, and several contained examples of why such a service is badly needed in rural Canada.

Offline Swedish chef

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Re: Starlink : Regulatory Filings in Other Countries
« Reply #2 on: 05/24/2020 04:41 am »
Likewise couldn't find any details of what's in the application, but found the 75 or so "Interventions" interesting to read. All the comments I read were in favor of approving the application, and several contained examples of why such a service is badly needed in rural Canada.

I do love SpaceX like the next guy, but yeah. That looks to me like a bit of Astroturfing. Or perhaps I'm a bit cynical as a person and this is how every Canadian acts in regards to boring radio transmission applications.

Offline meberbs

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Re: Starlink : Regulatory Filings in Other Countries
« Reply #3 on: 05/24/2020 06:27 am »
Likewise couldn't find any details of what's in the application, but found the 75 or so "Interventions" interesting to read. All the comments I read were in favor of approving the application, and several contained examples of why such a service is badly needed in rural Canada.

I do love SpaceX like the next guy, but yeah. That looks to me like a bit of Astroturfing. Or perhaps I'm a bit cynical as a person and this is how every Canadian acts in regards to boring radio transmission applications.
Or this could be something that people legitimately want, because while I am in the U.S., I think a lot of complaints about internet companies especially in rural would be shared. The few I checked all looked unique and reasonable to be something people would actually write. I checked and the form requires address information as well, this requires more to fake out than just hitting submit a bunch of times.

There are many reasons (really variations on the obvious big reasons) for regular people to care about SpaceX being able to provide internet service, and no rational reasons to be against it (This is just for access in Canada, the satellites will be there regardless, so anyone protesting because of some nonsense about it killing the night sky wouldn't even be responding in a relevant venue.) If there were a significant amount of negative comments, then it would be reason to wonder if they were legitimate. So maybe don't jump to accusations of fraud when you have no evidence to support that.

Offline Swedish chef

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Re: Starlink : Regulatory Filings in Other Countries
« Reply #4 on: 05/24/2020 10:02 am »
So maybe don't jump to accusations of fraud when you have no evidence to support that.

I did not call it fraud, i called it astroturfing. Perhaps its semantics from my side but i believe its a common enough occurrence to get its own word defining it.

Looking closer to one of the interventions, the one made by a woman called Jill Palmquist and with a email adress called [email protected] i noticed that she is very tech savvy using a throw away email address. https://services.crtc.gc.ca/pub/ListeInterventionList/Documents.aspx?ID=292644&en=2020-0279-9&dt=i&lang=e&S=O&PA=T&PT=A&PST=A

https://jourrapide.com/
Quote
jourrapide.com is part of a free disposable email address service called Adresse E-mail Temporaire. This service allows anyone to create a temporary email address that is only capable of receiving email. No legitimate email will ever be sent from jourrapide.com.

First the name and email address don't match, second i cant find her using google. So that one seems suspicious enough for me to call it astroturfing. I could go on but the mere number of comments raises a red flag with me.

Offline Arb

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Offline Swedish chef

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Re: Starlink : Regulatory Filings in Other Countries
« Reply #6 on: 05/24/2020 10:40 am »
It's mostly folk from r/Starlink.

Well that settles it, I was wrong.

Offline rakaydos

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Re: Starlink : Regulatory Filings in Other Countries
« Reply #7 on: 05/24/2020 12:06 pm »
Yeah it's less AstroTurfing, and more of a raid. Those who have heard about starlink are usually people already favorable to SpaceX's activities,especially those who go through the work to find the comment section of regulatory paperwork.

Offline envy887

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Re: Starlink : Regulatory Filings in Other Countries
« Reply #8 on: 05/24/2020 01:10 pm »
Yeah it's less AstroTurfing, and more of a raid. Those who have heard about starlink are usually people already favorable to SpaceX's activities,especially those who go through the work to find the comment section of regulatory paperwork.

Did anything like this (a large public following of active supporters) happen for other LEO constellations?

Offline meberbs

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Re: Starlink : Regulatory Filings in Other Countries
« Reply #9 on: 05/24/2020 05:06 pm »
So maybe don't jump to accusations of fraud when you have no evidence to support that.

I did not call it fraud, i called it astroturfing. Perhaps its semantics from my side but i believe its a common enough occurrence to get its own word defining it.
The rest has already been settled, so not too important, but astroturfing is a subcategory of fraud, I switched to the more general term to make the seriousness of the statement clear to anyone less familiar with the term,

The only thing I thought was strange was how I could not find another reference to that filing elsewhere on the internet other than this thread, yet clearly others had found it. That mystery has now been solved, I didn't do a good enough job looking.

Offline mulp

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Re: Starlink : Regulatory Filings in Other Countries
« Reply #10 on: 05/24/2020 05:18 pm »
Are these applications to transmit over Canada, or applications to have hundreds of thousands of transmitters on Canadian soil?

I'm old enough to remember when any radio transmitter required a licensed operator who passed an engineering test, and the debate/controversy of CB radios to allow any tom dick and harry to operate a radio.

I'm guessing the pizza box on a stick uses more power than a cell phone, but less than a CB radio.

Or it application to be a telco aka common carrier operating in Canada.

The ITU coordinates allocation of spectrum and number assignments, but the authority within each nation is authorized by each nation.

Offline su27k

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Re: Starlink : Regulatory Filings in Other Countries
« Reply #11 on: 06/20/2020 12:53 pm »
News article about the Canadian application: Elon Musk's company SpaceX applies to offer high-speed internet service to Canadians

I don't think there's anything new beyond what we already know.

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Starlink : Regulatory Filings in Other Countries
« Reply #12 on: 06/20/2020 01:40 pm »
1,609 interventions.  It appears that this was the most comments received on an issue by CRTC since 2013.

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Starlink : Regulatory Filings in Other Countries
« Reply #13 on: 06/24/2020 04:05 pm »
At the request of OneWeb, the CRTC extended the comment period on SpaceX telecommunication application.  Thankfully, the CRTC saw through OneWeb's attempt to delay the license issuance and only extended the comment period by a week.

So far, there are over 1,800 public comments, almost all of which are positive toward Starlink.
« Last Edit: 06/24/2020 04:14 pm by RedLineTrain »

Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: Starlink : Regulatory Filings in Other Countries
« Reply #14 on: 06/24/2020 04:25 pm »
At the request of OneWeb, the CRTC extended the comment period on SpaceX telecommunication application.  Thankfully, the CRTC saw through OneWeb's attempt to delay the license issuance and only extended the comment period by a week.

So far, there are over 1,800 public comments, almost all of which are positive toward Starlink.

I grew up in rural Saskatchewan.  The ISP options are not excellent and braodband is even worse.  Starlink, if it delivers as promised would find a sizeable customer base.

CRTC is not an a push over though, they won't get an easy pass.
Wildly optimistic prediction, Superheavy recovery on IFT-4 or IFT-5

Offline Vanspace

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Re: Starlink : Regulatory Filings in Other Countries
« Reply #15 on: 06/24/2020 06:33 pm »
Well this is one Canadian who opposes this horribly bad idea.

Do you have any idea the horrors of letting teenagers from Tuktiuktuk loose on the net will bring?

This is a place where watching paint dry IS exciting. It means somebody had so much money they could afford to have paint shipped thousands of miles over ice roads! I'm talking entirely new levels of bored teenagers wreaking havoc.

Soon there will be the oolikaan oil challenge and a craze for inukshucking. Throat singer covers of metal bands. Cute caribou videos could overtake cat videos. Madness Insanity and a complete breakdown in civilization are certain if this comes to pass!

The comments have to be astroturfing, no real Canadian would even consider it.

 ;)
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Offline Vanspace

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Re: Starlink : Regulatory Filings in Other Countries
« Reply #16 on: 06/24/2020 06:52 pm »
On the serious side, CRTC has a primary responsibility to expand connections to rural areas with a very heavy emphasis on getting First Nations connected. There is no way the CRTC would turn down a plan that delivers and doesn't cost the government anything. Ultimately, Trudeau can see that being the first PM to actually deliver on a promise of massive upgrade in services to the Far North is a huge political win.

Astroturf or not, Big Three opposition or not, there is no way the politics of this come out any other way.
« Last Edit: 06/24/2020 06:55 pm by Vanspace »
"p can not equal zero" is the only scientific Truth. I could be wrong (p<0.05)

Offline haywoodfloyd

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Re: Starlink : Regulatory Filings in Other Countries
« Reply #17 on: 06/28/2020 12:59 pm »
This is the only way the Big Three (Four?) will show some love to their rural customers.
Heck, even during this pandemic when remote schooling has been made mandatory in Ontario, repeated attempts to get Rogers to cut us some slack on their wireless Rocket Hub have fallen on deaf ears. Some have seen their monthly Internet bills rise to $300 and $400.
Shameful.
Let's hope Starlink is successful and levels the playing field.
Also let's hope the user terminal comes in at a reasonable price.

Offline Ghoti

Re: Starlink : Regulatory Filings in Other Countries
« Reply #18 on: 06/28/2020 02:36 pm »
On the serious side, CRTC has a primary responsibility to expand connections to rural areas with a very heavy emphasis on getting First Nations connected. There is no way the CRTC would turn down a plan that delivers and doesn't cost the government anything. Ultimately, Trudeau can see that being the first PM to actually deliver on a promise of massive upgrade in services to the Far North is a huge political win.

Astroturf or not, Big Three opposition or not, there is no way the politics of this come out any other way.
On the other hand Telesat Canada is listed as the 10th biggest government lobbyist during this past May. Cabinet gets the final say whether Spacex gets licenses that make Telesat's proposed system less viable. (Despite the CRTC being "independent")

Offline haywoodfloyd

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Re: Starlink : Regulatory Filings in Other Countries
« Reply #19 on: 06/28/2020 02:44 pm »
Trudeau is looking for votes wherever he can get them so I doubt he would do anything to alienate the rural voters, even though most of his support is in the big urban centres.
Besides, one of his stated promises ever since he first got elected was to ensure affordable highspeed Internet was available to everyone.
More virtue signalling I know but this would also be a friendly gesture to our "friends" in the US.
Telesat is late to the constellation game and should not be rewarded for that.

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