Boeing's Starliner (CST-100) - Discussion Thread 6

[Vettedrmr]

Is there any recent update from NASA or Boeing about the status of Starliner and its plan for future tests/launches?

When the decision if the next flight is crewed or only cargo mission?

This is the latest on that decision I can find; not heard anything to refute it:

From Space.com's article quoting Steve Stich:

NASA crew rotations aboard the ISS typically last six to eight months, lining up two launches per year to ferry astronauts to and from the orbital laboratory. Slating the first crewed, operational Starliner mission for the end of 2026 likely means the spacecraft's next launch won't include any astronauts aboard. "There's a strong chance we'll fly a cargo flight first," Stich said.

[spacenut]

So, 2026 before Starliner becomes active, and then cargo only?  When will they possibly launch a crew?

[Vettedrmr]

Stitch's quote states "the end of 2026".  Assuming the cargo flight is satisfactory.

[DanClemmensen]

Stitch's quote states "the end of 2026".  Assuming the cargo flight is satisfactory.

The latest report I know of was in June 2025. NASA was continuiing to say that no decision has been made on the crewed flight, an uncrewed flight may occur NET early 2026, and a crewed flight NET late 2026. But this was just re-iteration of NASA's earlier (non) announcements going back as far as just after the CFT.
   https://www.reuters.com/science/nasa-says-no-decision-yet-whether-next-boeing-starliner-flight-will-carry-crew-2025-06-06/

[SoftwareDude]

This shutdown seems like another monkey wrench for Boeing. I don't even know what is going on at NASA right now, except that its leadership picked a fight with Musk —probably the only thing they could think of doing during the shutdown. How is anyone supposed to know what is going on with Starliner?

[Vettedrmr]

This shutdown seems like another monkey wrench for Boeing. I don't even know what is going on at NASA right now, except that its leadership picked a fight with Musk —probably the only thing they could think of doing during the shutdown. How is anyone supposed to know what is going on with Starliner?

C'mon, that's a total red herring; please keep the politics out of it unless there's something that has a direct impact.  We have the same info now as we did prior to the shutdown vis-a-vis Starliner's next flight; anything that's going to happen is going to be next year at best.

[spacenut]

Yeah, Boeing can keep working on Starliner with or without a government shutdown.  Same with any other private company. 

[DanClemmensen]

Yeah, Boeing can keep working on Starliner with or without a government shutdown.  Same with any other private company.

The Starliner project folks presumably interact a lot with NASA employees, including astronauts, who will be either on furlough or working without pay, and who will probably not be able to travel as much.

[SoftwareDude]

This shutdown seems like another monkey wrench for Boeing. I don't even know what is going on at NASA right now, except that its leadership picked a fight with Musk —probably the only thing they could think of doing during the shutdown. How is anyone supposed to know what is going on with Starliner?

C'mon, that's a total red herring; please keep the politics out of it unless there's something that has a direct impact.  We have the same info now as we did prior to the shutdown vis-a-vis Starliner's next flight; anything that's going to happen is going to be next year at best.

Okay, no excuses, Boeing!

[ZachS09]

Kutryk is probably training to fly on Crew-13.

Of course. And then there will be nobody assigned to Starliner.

[John_Marshall]

Of course. And then there will be nobody assigned to Starliner.

That has been confirmed. https://x.com/SciGuySpace/status/1991998986526634140

[DanClemmensen]

Of course. And then there will be nobody assigned to Starliner.

That has been confirmed. https://x.com/SciGuySpace/status/1991998986526634140

Berger is highly reliable, but IMO that is still hearsay. It is not confirmed until we see a statement from NASA in a NASA post or on a NASA web site.

[ZachS09]

Of course. And then there will be nobody assigned to Starliner.

That has been confirmed. https://x.com/SciGuySpace/status/1991998986526634140

The post explicitly says, “NASA has no astronauts assigned.” That means no Americans on that mission, except for Kutryk, who is Canadian.

So technically, only Josh Kutryk remains assigned to Starliner.

[DanClemmensen]

NASA, Boeing Modify Commercial Crew Contract [Nov 24]

In 2014, NASA awarded a Commercial Crew Transportation Capability contract to Boeing to fly astronauts to and from the International Space Station with its Starliner spacecraft. As part of its contract, Boeing was awarded up to six crewed flights to the orbital complex.

After a thorough evaluation, NASA and Boeing have mutually agreed to modify the contract. As part of the modification, the definitive order has been adjusted to four missions, with the remaining two available as options. The next Starliner flight, known as Starliner-1, will be used by NASA to deliver necessary cargo to the orbital laboratory and allow in-flight validation of the system upgrades implemented following the Crew Flight Test mission last year.  NASA and Boeing are targeting no earlier than April 2026 to fly the uncrewed Starliner-1 pending completion of rigorous test, certification, and mission readiness activities.  Following Starliner certification, and a successful Starliner-1 mission, Starliner will fly up to three crew rotations to the International Space Station.

“NASA and Boeing are continuing to rigorously test the Starliner propulsion system in preparation for two potential flights next year,” said Steve Stich, manager of NASA’s Commercial Crew Program. “This modification allows NASA and Boeing to focus on safely certifying the system in 2026, execute Starliner’s first crew rotation when ready, and align our ongoing flight planning for future Starliner missions based on station’s operational needs through 2030.”

Certification of Boeing’s Starliner remains important to NASA’s goal of sustained human presence in low Earth orbit and dissimilar redundancy is essential to supporting the agency’s goals and international obligations.

Do the affected competitors for CRS (SpaceX and Northrup Grumman) or CCP (SpaceX) have a basis to challenge this contract mod? It is in effect a sole-source award with a very weak justification. We do not yet know the details, but it smells like NASA is treating this as a post-certification flight, meaning that Boeing will get paid for one or more milestones (CFT,or OFT, or something) even though they have not yet actually met the requirements for certification.

[sdsds]

Contractually Boeing might have two possible routes for Starliner launches. The straightforward one is to keep their claim on the 6 Atlas vehicles and use them to fly up to 6 missions for NASA. The other would be to adapt Starliner to Vulcan and trade some number of Atlas launches now for Vulcan launches in the future. If they choose the straight path is there some customer other than NASA who might pay for Starliner launches on Vulcan?

[John_Marshall]

The post explicitly says, “NASA has no astronauts assigned.” That means no Americans on that mission, except for Kutryk, who is Canadian.

So technically, only Josh Kutryk remains assigned to Starliner.

I'm pretty sure there are pictures of Kutryk training with Luke Delaney and Raphael Liegiois, both of whom have been unofficially linked to Crew-13.

[clongton]

In my opinion, at this point Starliner is a total dead end. Boeing only has 2 spacecraft, neither of which - at this point - is certified to carry crew to or from the ISS; which, by the way, is the ONLY destination the spacecraft is designed to reach. And the ISS itself is scheduled to be deorbited in early 2031, and it will be forever gone. And there are only 6 Atlas-Vs left available to fly it, after which they will also be forever gone. Then there are no launch vehicles anywhere in the world certified to carry Starliner. It will be without a ride to orbit - period. Again - in my opinion - NASA should decouple from the crew transport contract with Boeing and simply focus 100% on Dragon/Falcon for crew rotation to the ISS. Let the Boeing company cry about how NASA is dumping them if they want to, but they'll only be getting what they earned. They could have done better if they wanted to, but they didn't. I'm way beyond tired with all the hype about Starliner. It's time for it to go away. The noble dream of 2 dissimilar paths to ISS crew rotation was a good idea, but that was a very long time ago and only 1 of the 2 chosen paths have panned out - Dragon/Falcon. Starliner/Atlas has been a dismal failure; no fault to Atlas. But the Starliner program was poorly run by shortsighted, profit hungry bureaucrats determined to prioritize shareholder return in lieu of the once famous Boeing engineering excellence, driving a capable, talented but largely inexperienced and poorly led design staff that was handcuffed by a management with no vision and less concern for delivering on the contract who followed the old way of milking the government for every dime possible instead of creating an excellent product that they (and their dedicated engineering staff) could be proud of. It's past time to say goodbye to Starliner and focus on the future, leaving the Starliner behind like a bad dream that we are glad to wake up from to get on with our lives. YMMV

[catdlr]

https://twitter.com/dpoddolphinpro/status/1993100076252840277

Ryan Caton
@dpoddolphinpro
Starliner is not the only crew vehicle flying its next mission without humans onboard (although for a slightly different reason)

[KilroySmith]

The noble dream of 2 dissimilar paths to ISS crew rotation was a good idea, but that was a very long time ago and only 1 of the 2 chosen paths have panned out - Dragon/Falcon. Starliner/Atlas has been a dismal failure; no fault to Atlas.

I wonder, in an alternate timeline point of view, what things would look like at this point if the situations were reversed - Starliner reliably flying crew to the ISS and Dragon struggling.  In my cynical mind, SpaceX would have been kicked to the curb by now. 

[DanClemmensen]

The noble dream of 2 dissimilar paths to ISS crew rotation was a good idea, but that was a very long time ago and only 1 of the 2 chosen paths have panned out - Dragon/Falcon. Starliner/Atlas has been a dismal failure; no fault to Atlas. But the Starliner program was poorly run by shortsighted, profit hungry bureaucrats determined to prioritize shareholder return in lieu of the once famous Boeing engineering excellence,

As it turned out, dissimilar paths was a really good idea. The leading candidate in 2014 was Boeing Starliner, and it failed. This is not the failure NASA thought they were trying to mitigate, but is is the failure that actually occurred. The problem IMO is that the overall COTS plan did not anticipate this failure class and therefore did not include formal contract termination criteria. Starliner should have been dropped from CCP in September 2022, when NASA contracted with SpaceX for Crew-10 through Crew-14. NASA clearly realized then that Starliner was in serious trouble.