Author Topic: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates  (Read 591393 times)

Online Chris Bergin

Re: COTS Demo 1
« Reply #20 on: 06/23/2010 11:48 am »
We're up to NET Aug 26th - but too far out for a solid date yet.
Chris, is this inside info or has it been announced somewhere?

Brown envelope handed to me in a dark car park ;)
« Last Edit: 06/23/2010 11:49 am by Chris Bergin »
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Offline Garrett

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Re: COTS Demo 1
« Reply #21 on: 06/23/2010 11:56 am »
For the moment I'm still sticking to my "prediction" of October
- "Nothing shocks me. I'm a scientist." - Indiana Jones

Offline Spiff

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Re: COTS Demo 1
« Reply #22 on: 06/23/2010 12:08 pm »
We're up to NET Aug 26th - but too far out for a solid date yet.
Chris, is this inside info or has it been announced somewhere?

Brown envelope handed to me in a dark car park ;)

... By a man in a raincoat, with sunglasses, and an Italian accent?
I always consider space to be the FIRST frontier.

Offline zerm

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Re: COTS Demo 1
« Reply #23 on: 07/16/2010 03:18 am »
We're up to NET Aug 26th - but too far out for a solid date yet.
Chris, is this inside info or has it been announced somewhere?

Brown envelope handed to me in a dark car park ;)


Chris... I thought that was you getting your envelope at the same time I was getting one of mine in that "car park"... what're you doin' in Washington DC? (that sort of thing happens daily here, of course).

BTW- I'm with Jim on this one... November.

Offline SIM city

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Re: COTS Demo 1
« Reply #24 on: 07/16/2010 03:37 pm »
FDF posted a new date this week of 9 Sept.
http://fdfhome.gsfc.nasa.gov/fdinfo_Launch_2010.html

Offline yg1968

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Re: COTS Demo 1
« Reply #25 on: 07/16/2010 06:39 pm »
The same date is also posted on SFN.

Offline ChuckC

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Re: COTS Demo 1
« Reply #26 on: 07/16/2010 07:06 pm »
FDF posted a new date this week of 9 Sept.
http://fdfhome.gsfc.nasa.gov/fdinfo_Launch_2010.html
This has to be correct after all itís from NASA.gov and we know the Government would never lie to us. Yea right and Elvis is playing poker on Mars with Amelia Airheart.

Offline ugordan

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Re: COTS Demo 1
« Reply #27 on: 07/16/2010 07:45 pm »
This has to be correct after all itís from NASA.gov and we know the Government would never lie to us. Yea right and Elvis is playing poker on Mars with Amelia Airheart (sic).

What, they're not allowed to have provisional planning dates anymore? You think all the other dates in that table are "correct" and set in stone?

Offline Jim

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Re: COTS Demo 1
« Reply #28 on: 07/16/2010 08:31 pm »
FDF posted a new date this week of 9 Sept.
http://fdfhome.gsfc.nasa.gov/fdinfo_Launch_2010.html
This has to be correct after all itís from NASA.gov and we know the Government would never lie to us. Yea right and Elvis is playing poker on Mars with Amelia Airheart.

That is not an "official" NASA manifest nor does NASA have any say in Spacex's schedule.  It is a working level  manifest for those at GSFC who supply comm, tracking and TDRSS support to those missions.

Offline beancounter

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Re: COTS Demo 1
« Reply #29 on: 07/20/2010 02:50 am »
I'll be happy if it's any time before the end of the year. 

Then I understand that SpaceX want to use a successful mission to argue for the merging of COTS-C2 and C3 missions.

I wonder how open NASA will be to flying a single C2/C3 mission if COTS-C1 is completely successful?  Presumably would save SpaceX money but not NASA who will make the full payments based on the milestones achieved not number of missions if I understand SpaceX logic.
Beancounter from DownUnder

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: COTS Demo 1
« Reply #30 on: 07/20/2010 09:40 am »
I wonder how open NASA will be to flying a single C2/C3 mission if COTS-C1 is completely successful?  Presumably would save SpaceX money but not NASA who will make the full payments based on the milestones achieved not number of missions if I understand SpaceX logic.

IMHO, I think that NASA will not commit to merging C2 and C3 until C2 is underway.  If the Dragon vehicle shows sufficient control reliability and responsiveness, then they will allow SpaceX to open the C3 mission book and progress onto the objectives therein.  Otherwise, no-go.  Bring the vehicle back, apply the fixes determined from post-flight to the next unit and fly C3 seperately when ready.
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Offline ugordan

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Re: COTS Demo 1
« Reply #31 on: 07/20/2010 12:36 pm »
Presumably would save SpaceX money but not NASA who will make the full payments based on the milestones achieved not number of missions if I understand SpaceX logic.

Yes, it's to save SpaceX money and compress the already dealyed schedule a bit. They're arguing that since NASA is paying for a service demonstration (delivery of cargo to ISS), the actual number of flights is less relevant.

Offline ugordan

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Re: COTS Demo 1
« Reply #32 on: 07/20/2010 12:58 pm »
IMHO, I think that NASA will not commit to merging C2 and C3 until C2 is underway.  If the Dragon vehicle shows sufficient control reliability and responsiveness, then they will allow SpaceX to open the C3 mission book and progress onto the objectives therein.  Otherwise, no-go.

I'm not sure NASA can or will decide whether C2 is allowed to dock on the fly. Either everyone plans for it from the start - in which case C2 is C3 or they don't in which case C2 remains C2.

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: COTS Demo 1
« Reply #33 on: 07/20/2010 01:28 pm »
IMHO, I think that NASA will not commit to merging C2 and C3 until C2 is underway.  If the Dragon vehicle shows sufficient control reliability and responsiveness, then they will allow SpaceX to open the C3 mission book and progress onto the objectives therein.  Otherwise, no-go.

I'm not sure NASA can or will decide whether C2 is allowed to dock on the fly. Either everyone plans for it from the start - in which case C2 is C3 or they don't in which case C2 remains C2.

What I meant is that the C3 mission objectives would be secondary objectives on the C2 flight.  If the C2 objectives are met and sufficient reserves of propellent, coolant, etc., are avaiable, then they can move onto the secondary objectives.  Otherwise, they would be the primary objectives of the next flight.  I know that they've done that a few times on shuttle missions where EVAs on the ISS have been shunted back to the next flight on the grounds of delays or equipment trouble.
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Offline yg1968

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Re: COTS Demo 1
« Reply #34 on: 07/20/2010 05:14 pm »
IMHO, I think that NASA will not commit to merging C2 and C3 until C2 is underway.  If the Dragon vehicle shows sufficient control reliability and responsiveness, then they will allow SpaceX to open the C3 mission book and progress onto the objectives therein.  Otherwise, no-go.

I'm not sure NASA can or will decide whether C2 is allowed to dock on the fly. Either everyone plans for it from the start - in which case C2 is C3 or they don't in which case C2 remains C2.

If I remember correctly at the last Shuttle post-landing conference, a reporter asked that question. I believe that their answer was that a decision hadn't been made on this and that they would need to discuss it with SpaceX. However, they specified that the decision could not be made prior to the C1 test (which seems reasonable to me). 
« Last Edit: 07/20/2010 05:16 pm by yg1968 »

Offline Antares

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Re: COTS Demo 1
« Reply #35 on: 07/20/2010 05:19 pm »
It's just flight rules, my friends.  If requirements WXYZ are still go at the end of the C2 tests, they go try to berth.  If not, they go retro.
If I like something on NSF, it's probably because I know it to be accurate.  Every once in a while, it's just something I agree with.  Facts generally receive the former.

Offline ugordan

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Re: COTS Demo 1
« Reply #36 on: 07/20/2010 05:27 pm »
If requirements WXYZ are still go at the end of the C2 tests, they go try to berth.  If not, they go retro.

Since C2 wasn't supposed to berth, just approach ISS, that by definition means C3 objectives are addressed with C2.

My point is NASA won't decide to allow C2 to dock in mid-flight, if they allow docking it wil be decided before flight (thus condensing C3 to C2) and the final go/no-go for docking will obviously be decided after other objectives are safely demonstrated as you say.

Offline simonth

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Re: COTS Demo 1
« Reply #37 on: 07/20/2010 06:34 pm »
If requirements WXYZ are still go at the end of the C2 tests, they go try to berth.  If not, they go retro.

Since C2 wasn't supposed to berth, just approach ISS, that by definition means C3 objectives are addressed with C2.

My point is NASA won't decide to allow C2 to dock in mid-flight, if they allow docking it wil be decided before flight (thus condensing C3 to C2) and the final go/no-go for docking will obviously be decided after other objectives are safely demonstrated as you say.

It's a question of definition. I expect C2 to be dropped for C3 due to schedule delays that NASA can ill afford.

Offline beancounter

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Re: COTS Demo 1
« Reply #38 on: 07/21/2010 05:42 am »
Does anyone know what's different about the Orbital program that makes less flights acceptable as compared SpaceX or was it simply the agreement reached with NASA?
Beancounter from DownUnder

Offline kraisee

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Re: COTS Demo 1
« Reply #39 on: 07/21/2010 08:57 am »
I think it would be logical to plan for a merge of C2/C3 activities on the C2 flight.   If the C2 ops go according to plan, they get a green light to proceed into the C3 mission objectives, however if there are any significant concerns raised during the C2 ops, a no-go is issued and the C3 mission ops get bumped to the next flight after some more development can be done.

That's a fairly reasonable way to proceed without compromising either mission planning, schedule- or cost-profiles.

Plan for all outcomes.

Ross.
« Last Edit: 07/21/2010 08:58 am by kraisee »
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